What grade would you expect to get if........

[miffy]

you didn't have a current paediatric first aid certificate?

Do you think it would make any difference if the certificate had just run out or you hadn't been covered for over 6 months? Or if you had managed to book on a first aid course or simply not bothered yet.

Miffy xx

[Ripeberry]

Don't think you'd get a grade? You'd be in breach of the rules :eek:

[grindal]

I think an out of date first aid means an unsatisfactory, but I am sure there have been postings on here about people who have booked first aid courses that have been cancelled - leaving them without a valid certificate. If it is you I would suggest getting booked onto a first aid course as soon as possible so at least you can show your inspector you are doing something about it.

[ajs]

i don't think it can be miffy she has just been inspected.

I have been waiting to get on a course and the first one available for me is in July. I called the PLA to check and i am on it luckily but only because i applied in december it is full now.

[Jules12Wed]

Someone in my area had booked a first aid course which was only a few weeks after her inspection, her current first aid certificate had run out a few months previously and she was given unsatisfactory.

[mrs_scottydog]

I'm sure you're not allowed to work without a valid first aid certificate but I could be wrong. Hx

[Mouse]

I was booked on a course a couple of weeks before my certificate ran out. Unfortunately I was ill & had to miss the course. I got booked onto another one that was 2 weeks after my certificate ran out. I phoned Ofsted & they said it was OK to carry on working. I did wonder if I'd have to close until I had my new certificate, but didn't have to.

I think Ofsted can use their discretion, but I don't know if they have any set time limits.

[Pipsqueak]

Its an unsatisfactory.... you HAVE to have a current FA certificate

[caz3007]

Its an unsatisfactory but you are allowed to work and have to rectify the situation within a specified time.

I would suggest that they attempt to get booked on a course asap, it will show Mrs O that they are attempting to rectify the problem, but it will still be an unsatisfactory.

[bandlady]

At my last inspection (2007) my first aid certificate had run out I was actually half way through a course at the time of my inspection and I got graded satisfactory. Things may have changed since then but I learnt a very valuable lesson and under no circumstances would I allow myself to let my certificate run out again. I completed my last first aid course 3 months before my certidicate expired to ensure that I was covered and if the course was cancelled I would have plenty of time to rebook.

My advice to anyone whose first aid has less than 6 months left to book a course now to ensure that you are not left with no first aid cover.

Denise

[Cammie Doodle]

We have started our FA course this week although ours does'nt run out until Oct, but no other course being run in the area until Oct/ Nov and we have been told no current FA no childminding :eek:

[Blaze]

Unsatisfactory & no minding till completed....I do think there is small leaway,but it's not to be relied upon....the only way round it is to take holiday if matter of weeks IYSWIM :(

[kindredspirits]

phew thanks for reminding me! My first aid runs out at the end of the month - i had booked on a course for next weekend but recieved no reply - just e-mailed the company who said i have a space! :thumbsup:
£78 for the priviledge so i hope its better than the last course i did.

[christine e]

Someone has recently told me that it is ok if you can prove you are booked in on a course in the near future, personally I think you should have to evidence continuity of first aid certificates. I always renew mine after two and a half years just in case something goes wrong but I do know some who say I am not due an inspection so leave it a while so that is why I say we should have to prove continuity.

Cx

[Mouse]

Someone has recently told me that it is ok if you can prove you are booked in on a course in the near future, personally I think you should have to evidence continuity of first aid certificates. I always renew mine after two and a half years just in case something goes wrong but I do know some who say I am not due an inspection so leave it a while so that is why I say we should have to prove continuity.

Cx

I have all my old certificates in a folder and the current one on the wall :thumbsup: They do show a gap of 2 weeks (as posted above), but Ofsted were OK about this because I was booked on a course. I usually aim to do them at least a month or two early.

I also know people who just don't bother to do it as they haven't got an inspection due :panic:

[Penny1959]

In my experience as a DO - it normally is an unsatisfsactory with a time limit ed action to get one in place - otherwise it is de registration (or resignation).

Once I supported a cm whose first aid certificate had run out and she could not get on a course for ages. Ofsted were not at all happy. However when I rang Ofsted to say that as her DO, I had rang EVERY first aid course provider for miles and no one had any places they did give her an extended time period - provided I personally ensured the certificate was in place by that time.

So as others have said Ofsted do have a little room for granting extra time but usually they are very firm on this one.


Penny :)

[Rubybubbles]

There was a lady on my first aid course in Feb who's had run out in November year before:panic: she was waiting for Ofsted too!

Mine wasn't due until end of May but better to get it done before. Sorry but if I have to do one every 2 years so I know I can get on a place I will.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

inadequate with an action for 1 month or deregistered

[Pauline]

If you are booked on a course and can prove it then the inspector may use her discretion and go for satisfactory depending on the rest of your inspection, but that would be the best you would get. Otherwise it will definitely be 'inadequate 1' with an action to do your first aid immediately. (as opposed to inadequate 2 where they shut you down immediately) :)

[Chimps Childminding]

As June said we are doing ours now (started on Tuesday) even though it isn't due till October as there was no course available locally nearer October.

It would be good if you could just do a "refresher" course or something rather than have to do the whole 12 hours once you had already done a First Aid Course. I know somethings like number of chest compressions for CPR etc are reviewed every 5 years (First Aid Instructor told us on Tuesday) and so that might differ slightly, but most other things are more or less the same!

[kindredspirits]

the thing is it doesn't really matter how many chest compressions you do - as long as you are doing something you are helping - if you forget at the time and do say 5 instead of 10 its still 5 more than nothing.

i find the 12 hours is just a padded out waste of time (or it was on the last course, just the instructors gossiping about how many lives they've saved or singing Nelly the Elephant whilst doing chest compressions. :rolleyes: )

[PixiePetal]

the thing is it doesn't really matter how many chest compressions you do - as long as you are doing something you are helping - if you forget at the time and do say 5 instead of 10 its still 5 more than nothing.

i find the 12 hours is just a padded out waste of time (or it was on the last course, just the instructors gossiping about how many lives they've saved or singing Nelly the Elephant whilst doing chest compressions. :rolleyes: )

nelly the elephant :laughing: been there, done that :laughing:

[grindal]

i find the 12 hours is just a padded out waste of time (or it was on the last course, just the instructors gossiping about how many lives they've saved or singing Nelly the Elephant whilst doing chest compressions. :rolleyes: )

Sounds like your last course was similar to mine :eek:

We sat through hours of the first aider telling us about the incidents, injuries and mishaps his very accident prone family had got upto - with photos :eek: :eek:

I was under the impression it was supposed to be a practical based course - not anecdotal.

We did it over 4 evenings - all started late, first interrupted by a fire alarm, rest all finished early and then at the end he muttered alot about the things he had not got round to doing but we could read up on them in the book.

Complete waste of time and money :angry:

[PaulaF]

are you insured if your FA runs out?

I am booked onto a course to begin in a couple of weeks even though my FA doesn't run out until September.

[JumpingJacks]

A friend of mine was recently (last month) graded unsatisfactory due to her first aid being out of date and she was devastated, will be taking mine early when its due for renewal just to be on the safe side!

[Lil chicken]

There is only one exception that Ofsted told me when I asked recently, and that was if your first aid certificate ran out while you were on the course you are still able to work. Otherwise your in breech of your registration.

[Hebs]

nelly the elephant :laughing: been there, done that :laughing:

OMG mine too :laughing: :laughing:

my first aid runs out in october but i redone it in jan just to make sure it didnt run out :thumbsup:

[breezy]

My DO told me if my first aid was out of date I would have to inform Ofsted and wouldnt be able to mind. ( I was in danger of having 2 weeks without due to course finishing after certificate ran out) However course tutor told me it was fine as long as I was actively doing the course, as it was course times changed so I never had to find out!

[buildingblocks]

Automatic inadequate I think

[miffy]

Thanks for all the replies, I also thought it would be an inadequate grade - wasn't sure Ofsted inspector would be allowed to use their discretion as it is a legal requirement.

Miffy xx

[Trouble]

a friend of mine got satisfactory because of it

Do you need one:cool:

[miffy]

Do you need one:cool:

No, not me but I do have a friend who does!

Miffy xx

[christine e]

No, not me but I do have a friend who does!

Miffy xx

If this person is local I think they should contact NCMA team who will try and get them on a course and suggest they get a letter from course provider saying they are booked on, I think childminder co ordinator may well back up with a letter

Cx

[miffy]

Thanks Christine, I'll pass that on.

I suppose my question really was when is a legal requirement not a legal requirement? I would not expect Ofsted to have any sort of discretion over that.

Miffy xx

[christine e]

Thanks Christine, I'll pass that on.

I suppose my question really was when is a legal requirement not a legal requirement? I would not expect Ofsted to have any sort of discretion over that.

Miffy xx

I would not expect Ofsted to have a sort of discretion over it but it seems they do - I do know someone with an assistant and the assistant's first aid had expired and so got inadequate but don't know whether or not they had one booked in the near future.

Cx

[Pauline]

I would not expect Ofsted to have a sort of discretion over it but it seems they do - I do know someone with an assistant and the assistant's first aid had expired and so got inadequate but don't know whether or not they had one booked in the near future.

Cx



It is not a requirement that assistants have first aid unless they are to be in sole care, so you would think that they would allow an assistant to have an expired first aid but make it a condition/action of the inspection that they could not have sole care until they did. :huh:

Inadequate sounds very unfair unless I suppose it was proven that the assistant had been in sole care while not having a current first aid certificate in which case it would make sense, so perhaps that is it.

[christine e]

It is not a requirement that assistants have first aid unless they are to be in sole care, so you would think that they would allow an assistant to have an expired first aid but make it a condition/action of the inspection that they could not have sole care until they did. :huh:

Inadequate sounds very unfair unless I suppose it was proven that the assistant had been in sole care while not having a current first aid certificate in which case it would make sense, so perhaps that is it.

Assistant does have sole care

Cx

[buildingblocks]

I would not expect Ofsted to have a sort of discretion over it but it seems they do - I do know someone with an assistant and the assistant's first aid had expired and so got inadequate but don't know whether or not they had one booked in the near future.

Cx

i think that it might if they had extra numbers because of the assistant (hope that makes sense)

[gegele]

i know a childminder who had no insurance, no firat aid and she was given 2weeks to comply...no sanction against her...i think it's disgusting!!!!:eek: