Contract termination

[kevin1983]

Hello i need some help please. I signed a SCMA chidcare contract on wednesday (02-02-11) as i required childcare for my son for a period starting at the end of this month (28-02-11 as detailed on the contract).

However due to a placement change at my sons nursery i no longer require the services of the childminder.

As soon as found out about the placement change at nursery i contacted the childminder (today 04-02-11) to let her know this. She had informed me that i will be due her two weeks worth of childcare costs.

Having read the contract there is only details regarding a notice of termination period of two weeks. There is no information detailing a "cooling off" period or "settling period" etc.

I have also noticed that i never dated the contract next to my signature.

I would like to mention that i fully understand that childminding is a buisness and respect the rights of the childminder, but under the circumstances i think it is pretty cheeky for to be asked to pay for two weeks fees after terminating the contract less that 48 hrs after signing it.

Can someone please advise.

Many thanks,
Kevin

[sarah707]

Many childminders have a 2 (or 4) week settling in period during which time either party can cancel without prejudice.

In most cases (certainly in my contracts) the 2 (or 4) week period would be payable in advance.

If the childminder cancels the contract s/he would usually refund unused hours paid for... if the parent cancels s/he would usually expect to lose the full amount.

Often the childminder will have bought new resources or equipment in anticipation of the new contract starting so that might also be a consideration.

The contract should have a date on it, regardless of whether you dated your signature. Was it an NCMA or Morton Michel contract or one of the childminder's own?

As all childminders are self employed we all set our own terms and conditions and these vary from minder to minder.

If you refuse to pay the 2 week amount your childminder will probably write you an account due letter and then take legal advice. This might mean taking you to the small claims court and pursuing the amount due that way.

I believe parents can contact the NCMA (National Childminding Association) for legal advice on contract issues -

http://www.*************/for_parents/choosing_a_childminder.aspx

Alternatively you could contact your own legal advisor.

I hope this helps you.

[Goatgirl]

Hi :),

I'm sorry you feel you are being treated unfairly. But a contract is a contract and you have signed to say that you agree to its terms.

Just to add to sarah's good advice:

As a childminder I can see that she/he would expect you to pay the 2 weeks notice. I always take a deposit of 4 weeks fees at contract signing, which is non refundable if the parent does not take up the contract. If I back out for any reason, it is refunded in full.

I've often bought new resources with deposit money and it may also be that the childminder has turned away other families, thinking you were taking up the place. Please try not to take it personally.

I hope you can settle it amicably :)

bws,
Wendy

[kevin1983]

Hello, thanks for the replies. It is a SCMA contract, must be a scottish varient if the NCMA contract.

My son was not due to start with the childminder until the end of this month, and as it was less than 48 hrs from contract sign to termination, i have doubts that the childminder would have had to refuse other buisness or purchase any new equipment.

It is really due to the timescales that i feel that asking me for £185 of my hard earned money for doing naff all is a bit cheeky.

However if the childminder can prove to me that she is out of pocket by any amount i would be happy to reinburst her that amount.

Thanks again.

[The Juggler]

hon, I always take a month's deposit when I sign contracts. This is non-refundable in the event that parents change their mind (though is offset against first month's fees).

so I guess this is a bit like booking a holiday then changing your mind. The nursery probably would have done the same.

Lots of minders have a settling in period with no notice but I do not as I can't afford to be without work at any point really and I feel if things dont' work out that both parents and minder need time to find an alternative so i have a month's notice.

sorry this has happened though but i think you are going to have to pay. could you use her services for 2 weeks and delay the nursery start??

[onceinabluemoon]

However if the childminder can prove to me that she is out of pocket by any amount i would be happy to reinburst her that amount.

Thanks again.

It's not really a matter of reimbursing her of she is out of pocket.

The contract you signed is a legally binding document. If you have signed that you will give 2 weeks (paid) notice then that is what you have to do by law. If the contract states that you have a settling in/cooling off period then you have just that.

The contract is there to protect both parties. Whilst I can see your point, you presumably signed the document, presumably you read it first and you agreed to its terms and are thereby bound by them.

As for doing 'naff all': I had a new parent sign a contract on Thursday afternoon. I had to spend time ensuring the children I was minding that day didn't make too much mess and wasn't able to carry out the activities we had planned due to the parent coming in working hours; I had to spend almost 2 hours with the parent talking to them and filling out contracts; I had to pay my teenage sons to play with/amuse the children I was minding that day so I could give the new parents more of my attention; That evening I had to get out a pre-bought (but still paid for) lever arch folder, spend time on my computer finding and printing all the necessary documentation for the child's file and fill it all in; go into the attic and find all the toys appropriate for the child's age, clean and wash them; I had to remember who I had lent the rocker chair too and call them then go and collect it and clean it ready for use; Dig out the baby bottles and ensure they were safe and ready for use; Order extra blankets and sheets online, and order and pay extra for immediate delivery for a carpet shampooer as baby is just learning to sit up on the floor and other children (toddlers) are just learning to fed themselves and are quite messy eaters - All this is just about 30 hours after parent signed contract. I then checked my email for the day to find I had another request for childcare which I had to reply to and let her know the space had been filled. Lastly I had to update my website so say I was full.

This morning I have changed my attendance register (formatted in Excel so not a simple task) to allow for an extra named child; Ensured my travel cot was clean and ready for use; and am now awaiting delivery of the carpet washer which will then be used to thoroughly clean the carpets form the food and milk minded children have spilt (not to mention the LO I currently have who is toilet training). I am expecting this to take about 3 hours. I am just taking a break now whilst I think about changing all my planning to accommodate a 6 month old. (This takes hours!). All this takes time away from my own children. One of my own children had to miss their club as I was unable to take them on Thursday due to parent turning up late and thus staying later than anticipated.

If this parent changes her mind, I have done all this for absolutely nothing and have lost out on other work. With all due respect, as you can see, it isn't 'naff all'...

[tash1508]

Couldn't of put it better myself!
For some reason people seem to think childminders sit around playing with kids doing 'naff all'! If only hey......It's all the behind the scenes stuff that takes time, patience and hard work to coordinate and get right!


It's not really a matter of reimbursing her of she is out of pocket.

The contract you signed is a legally binding document. If you have signed that you will give 2 weeks (paid) notice then that is what you have to do by law. If the contract states that you have a settling in/cooling off period then you have just that.

The contract is there to protect both parties. Whilst I can see your point, you presumably signed the document, presumably you read it first and you agreed to its terms and are thereby bound by them.

As for doing 'naff all': I had a new parent sign a contract on Thursday afternoon. I had to spend time ensuring the children I was minding that day didn't make too much mess and wasn't able to carry out the activities we had planned due to the parent coming in working hours; I had to spend almost 2 hours with the parent talking to them and filling out contracts; I had to pay my teenage sons to play with/amuse the children I was minding that day so I could give the new parents more of my attention; That evening I had to get out a pre-bought (but still paid for) lever arch folder, spend time on my computer finding and printing all the necessary documentation for the child's file and fill it all in; go into the attic and find all the toys appropriate for the child's age, clean and wash them; I had to remember who I had lent the rocker chair too and call them then go and collect it and clean it ready for use; Dig out the baby bottles and ensure they were safe and ready for use; Order extra blankets and sheets online, and order and pay extra for immediate delivery for a carpet shampooer as baby is just learning to sit up on the floor and other children (toddlers) are just learning to fed themselves and are quite messy eaters - All this is just about 30 hours after parent signed contract. I then checked my email for the day to find I had another request for childcare which I had to reply to and let her know the space had been filled. Lastly I had to update my website so say I was full.

This morning I have changed my attendance register (formatted in Excel so not a simple task) to allow for an extra named child; Ensured my travel cot was clean and ready for use; and am now awaiting delivery of the carpet washer which will then be used to thoroughly clean the carpets form the food and milk minded children have spilt (not to mention the LO I currently have who is toilet training). I am expecting this to take about 3 hours. I am just taking a break now whilst I think about changing all my planning to accommodate a 6 month old. (This takes hours!)

If this parent changes her mind, I have done all this for absolutely nothing and have lost out on other work. With all due respect, as you can see, it isn't 'naff all'...

[kevin1983]

Thanks for the info onceinabluemoon, but a detailed list of your activities is not really of much use.

[kevin1983]

FOA Tash 1508,

If you take the time to read my blog, you would see i was not reffering to looking after a child as being naff all. i was referring to the 48hr period between me signing a contract and then deciding to terminate it. 3 weeks before the care of my son was due to start.

Perhaps you should look at the full picture before commenting next time!

[onceinabluemoon]

Thanks for the info onceinabluemoon, but a detailed list of your activities is not really of much use.

I didn't expect it to be of any use, just pointing out to you that we don't do 'naff all' whilst waiting for a child to start, as you so eloquently put it.

I guess I thought if you had some idea of how hard childminders actually work behind the scenes you would be a little more understanding of the position you find yourself in. I was wrong, and for that I apologise...

[kevin1983]

And there was i thinking that your customers paid for your care and attention of the children not your teenage sons.

[The Juggler]

I think that emotions might have got a little heated by the naff all comment but I know you came on here for advice and to see what was normal practice.

It is as normal for there to be no settling in period as it is for there to be one. If you had paid a deposit but had been given a notice free settling in period you would have lost the deposit (which would more likely have been a month's money. sorry this might not be the info that you wanted. I think bluemoon just wanted to point out all the hardwork, paperwork and resources that cost us time and money even in the days before parents visit AND the days before a child starts with us.

I think it's unfair of you to comment on her sons being there to play with the children so she could accommodate a parent visit that had been requested during working hours. Had she not done so she either wouldn't have been able to speak properly to the parents or she would have been ignoring the children's needs.:( This was a way in which she could accommodate both whilst still supervising the children in her care.

I'm sorry this situation has happened to you but to put another perspective on it. How would you feel if you had signed a contract with the minder, cancelled a nursery place you don't need anymore and then the minder changed her mind and told you she wouldn't have them anymore. imagine that 2 week notice period wasn't there you would have had no care for your child. Under the terms of the contract though you and the minder are protected with 2 weeks notice and time to find alternative care/other work.

[Carol M]

I am utterly disgusted by the way this thread is going and I do hope the OP discusses the situation further with the childminder concerned as he has not divulged the terms and conditions of HIS contract here.
I can see the childminders replies here are to inform said OP of things he may not be aware of when agreeing to start a chilcare arrangement. I too would take a 4 week fee from parents on signing a contract and if the parent chose not to take up the place, the money is non-refundable even if their decision to not uptake the place was made 1hr,1 day,1week or 1 month after signing a legally binding contract!
Of course every situation is different and I would most probably want to be discussing the situation with said parent to see if an amicable end could be reached, but that would be entirely at my discretion as the contract had been agreed. I certainly do not offer a " cooling off period "as I make sure the terms and conditions of the individuals contract are understood at the time of signing.
OP, please talk to your childminder.
Carol

[kevin1983]

thank you carol and the juggler for your advise.

I agree with your comments and will be in contact with the childminder to see if we can come to an agreement.

[CHUNKY MONKEY]

And there was i thinking that your customers paid for your care and attention of the children not your teenage sons.

If you come on a forum for advice/info then you should appreciate everybodies comments and input not just the ones that suit you. You have asked for advice and think you need to be more courteous and appreciative to all the childminders who take time out of their busy schedules to try to help you out.

[kevin1983]

get off yer high horse chunky

[Pauline]

get off yer high horse chunky

I don't think there is any need for this.

You have asked your question, obviously you are not happy with the answer. Best thing is to go back to your childminder and sort it out with them.

This thread is now locked before it gets silly.