Medication and childminders - your concerns

[sarah707]

I am after some help please!

I have been asked to contribute to a training course which is going to be written for childminders about medication.

- Do you have any problems with medication for the children?

- What would you like to know more about?

Do you wish you knew more about subjects such as..?

- Storing medication

- Giving medication to children

- Writing up medication forms

- Which medication you can give to children

- Dealing with parents and their children's medication...

Anything medication related really that worries you or that you feel you would like more information about.

Thank you! :D

[Blaze]

I would like clarification re advise given in an emergency situation & dispensing medication...ie child is stung by bee - has a bad allergic reaction...you call 999 - operator advices ambulance is on way & if you have it to administer a dose of anti-hysitimine ....now this was mentioned on my peadiatric first aid course - but leaves us in a jam re written permission IYSWIM

Also - Advice on how to store medication whilst on outings - within reach that others would find easily, but safe re children getting hold of it! :rolleyes:

[miffy]

A lot to think about there Sarah!

I have concerns about giving medication (and recording it) when care is shared between settings. For example, I can be given medication by a parent in the morning to take to school where it will be given to the child by someone else. That may be the only dose given by someone other than the parent that day.

What should I record? Should I ask the school to provide evidence that the medication has been given, when and by whom to give the parent? Should I also record this? Or is it sufficient to note that I have passed this information on to parent? Do I need the parent's signature?

Seems like it may be a lot of work/recording to cover myself when I have nothing to do with administering the medication itself.

Miffy xx

[Bridey]

This hasn't affected me yet thankfully but I've had childminder friends in this area who have found it impossible to get epi-pen training. The doctors refuse. Why is it so hard to get the necessary training to use life-saving medicine and what are we supposed to do in an emergency situation if we have the epi-pen (or inhaler for asthma etc), permission from the parents, written instructions on how to administer but no training?

[Pipsqueak]

I would like clarification re advise given in an emergency situation & dispensing medication...ie child is stung by bee - has a bad allergic reaction...you call 999 - operator advices ambulance is on way & if you have it to administer a dose of anti-hysitimine ....now this was mentioned on my peadiatric first aid course - but leaves us in a jam re written permission IYSWIM

Also - Advice on how to store medication whilst on outings - within reach that others would find easily, but safe re children getting hold of it! :rolleyes:

Ditto to the bit in bold. However I think I would do whatever it took to keep that child alive - uggers to written permission or not - I would deal with whatever fallout later.

[Blaze]

Ditto to the bit in bold. However I think I would do whatever it took to keep that child alive - uggers to written permission or not - I would deal with whatever fallout later.

I would too - but we shouldn't have fallout to deal with IYSWIM!:rolleyes: :mad:

[rickysmiths]

This hasn't affected me yet thankfully but I've had childminder friends in this area who have found it impossible to get epi-pen training. The doctors refuse. Why is it so hard to get the necessary training to use life-saving medicine and what are we supposed to do in an emergency situation if we have the epi-pen (or inhaler for asthma etc), permission from the parents, written instructions on how to administer but no training?



I have a friend with exactly this issue, doctor refuses to give Epi-Pen training and she has never used one before and we are told on our first aid courses that we should have the training for each individual.

[tulip0803]

I have a friend with exactly this issue, doctor refuses to give Epi-Pen training and she has never used one before and we are told on our first aid courses that we should have the training for each individual.

Thats terrible you would think that they would want to ensure the child's health! I had no problems getting epi-pen training from my GPs for a child in my care, I only went to enquire and they took me straight in and did it there and then & signed the NCMA medication form to say they had done it. Another postcode lottery!

[Bridey]

I guess our main concerns can be summed up as ... what happens to us if we have to break the rules to save a child's life?

[Mouse]

We've been discussing this recently at our cm group & these were some of the things that were talked about.

Lots of cm's want clarification on what non-prescribed medicines they can & can't give. Particularly things like Calpol. Some seem to think you can't give it unless it's been prescribed by a GP, dentist or nurse, whereas others are happy to give it as long as they have written permission. They know the info is all there somewhere, but would like it all together, in one easy to read form.

Another query they have is regarding cough medicine. A lot of parents turn up with an OTC bottle of cough medicine & say "X has a cough. Can you give them this if they need it?" Do you give it? What if you don't agree with giving cough medicine - reports say they don't really help.

Should we keep our own supply of Calpol or only ever give it if parents provide it?

I'll try to remember any other concerns.

[Mouse]

I would too - but we shouldn't have fallout to deal with IYSWIM!:rolleyes: :mad:

Wouldn't that be covered by our permission to seek emergency advice and treatment for the child?

[Blaze]

No - I checked - it's no-man's land!:rolleyes:

[Mouse]

No - I checked - it's no-man's land!:rolleyes:

That's a worry then isn't it?

[Polly2]

I would be interested in all the issues you noted Sarah. Plus the points Mouse mentioned.

Also does nappy cream come under medication, are there any guidelines for this?

[Blaze]

The problem is we are covered to administer first aid not medication in an emergency situation IYSWIM...to administer any form of medication we need written permission first (ie a blanket cover form listing calpol, anti-histamine at our discretion / as needed is not sufficient)...so according to the rules Little Joe gets stung - is fighting for his life - we dial 999 - are advised ambulance on way & if you have some give anti-histamine whilst you wait for the ambulance...now we have to email / text, Mum/ Dad explaining situation - wait for them to respond with permission - then give it (all whist dealing with a dying toddler & any other kids in out care)!!!!... & in likely hood the ambulance arrived hours ago!!!:rolleyes:

[Blaze]

I would be interested in all the issues you noted Sarah. Plus the points Mouse mentioned.

Also does nappy cream come under medication, are there any guidelines for this?

If you use NCMA paperwork there is a bit in the folder tabs on the back that you put nappy creams into & get parents to sign...I have in in my general permissions too:thumbsup:

[Polly2]

Oh right! Is that in the medication book? Off to look now! I have it in my general permissions also just wondered the official stance!

[Blaze]

The medication folder has divider things for each child - it's on the back of the divider - there's a table thing - it's meant to go in there. :thumbsup:

[Stormy]

I would like clarification on homeopathic remedies, had parents in the past that feel I should administer as and when as they feel they dont come under the same bracket as conventional medicine.
This has always been a grey area that concerns me as I still believe its medication x

[Pipsqueak]

No - I checked - it's no-man's land!:rolleyes:

Nope sorry I would like to think that i would do what ever was necessary to keep a child alive.

You are right it should not be no-mans land and someone out there needs to get their common sense head on. And THAT is what is wrong in todays society - no common sense and too afraid of being sued.

[catlyn]

This hasn't affected me yet thankfully but I've had childminder friends in this area who have found it impossible to get epi-pen training. The doctors refuse. Why is it so hard to get the necessary training to use life-saving medicine and what are we supposed to do in an emergency situation if we have the epi-pen (or inhaler for asthma etc), permission from the parents, written instructions on how to administer but no training?

i used to work as part of the school nurse team and epi pen training was part of the work we did in schools for the teachers...maybe if you ring the ones in your area they might be willing to put a session on for local childminders??

[Trouble]

i used to work as part of the school nurse team and epi pen training was part of the work we did in schools for the teachers...maybe if you ring the ones in your area they might be willing to put a session on for local childminders??

you can ask the childs nurse at the hospital to show you how to use an epipen and ofsted are fine with this as this is what i had to do

[singingcactus]

We've been discussing this recently at our cm group & these were some of the things that were talked about.

Lots of cm's want clarification on what non-prescribed medicines they can & can't give. Particularly things like Calpol. Some seem to think you can't give it unless it's been prescribed by a GP, dentist or nurse, whereas others are happy to give it as long as they have written permission. They know the info is all there somewhere, but would like it all together, in one easy to read form.

Another query they have is regarding cough medicine. A lot of parents turn up with an OTC bottle of cough medicine & say "X has a cough. Can you give them this if they need it?" Do you give it? What if you don't agree with giving cough medicine - reports say they don't really help.

Should we keep our own supply of Calpol or only ever give it if parents provide it?

I'll try to remember any other concerns.

I believe it is up to the individual whether or not they agree to administer over the counter medication. I personally do not do this. So if a parent asked me to give any brand of paracetamol solution, or cough medicine 'as needed' I would just refer them to my policies and tell them no. My main concern with medication is that many many people over medicate these poor children, if their temp is half a degree higher than the adult feels it should be then out comes the paracetamol solution, if the child coughs, than out comes the heavily laced cough syrup. Medication is preventing our children's bodies from being able to repair themselves, it's stopping the body heating up to burn off viruses, it's stopping children being able to cope with and fight of minor colds...it's all just crazy. Fresh air, healthy diet, enough sleep, and lots of exercise and the body will only need medical help occasionally.
As for prescribed medication it's not too hard, you write down what it is is, what the dosage is, what the frequency is, when and who etc, and get sigs in advance and after the dose.

[Pipsqueak]

My main concern with medication is that many many people over medicate these poor children, if their temp is half a degree higher than the adult feels it should be then out comes the paracetamol solution, if the child coughs, than out comes the heavily laced cough syrup. Medication is preventing our children's bodies from being able to repair themselves, it's stopping the body heating up to burn off viruses, it's stopping children being able to cope with and fight of minor colds...it's all just crazy. Fresh air, healthy diet, enough sleep, and lots of exercise and the body will only need medical help occasionally.
.


couldn't agree more.
I was shocked recently to discover my SIL doses her son with Calpol to 'help him sleep' at night (he is 5). he is also dosed with Calpol the moment he shows signs of tonsillitus - whether that's him being off his food for one meal (he is fussy), if he gets stroppy - its tonsillitus (no he is a stroppy controlling little monkey), his voice has a slight wobble or he even vaguely complains of a sore throat (docs rarely give him meds for tonsillitus as he doesn't get the bacterial type although it was recommended he have his tonsills out a while ago which parents declined).
I think the dosing him comes from my sister though - she is a bit of a medication junkie herself. If it aches, hurts, prickles, needs to be soothed etc out comes the medication.
It makes me laugh though - they won't get his tonsills taken out yet they are happy to reguarly dose him with paracetamol:panic:


i have pointed out that its wrong to be met with a 'you don't know what you are talking about' with a withering stare......

[Mouse]

I believe it is up to the individual whether or not they agree to administer over the counter medication. I personally do not do this. So if a parent asked me to give any brand of paracetamol solution, or cough medicine 'as needed' I would just refer them to my policies and tell them no. My main concern with medication is that many many people over medicate these poor children, if their temp is half a degree higher than the adult feels it should be then out comes the paracetamol solution, if the child coughs, than out comes the heavily laced cough syrup. Medication is preventing our children's bodies from being able to repair themselves, it's stopping the body heating up to burn off viruses, it's stopping children being able to cope with and fight of minor colds...it's all just crazy. Fresh air, healthy diet, enough sleep, and lots of exercise and the body will only need medical help occasionally.
As for prescribed medication it's not too hard, you write down what it is is, what the dosage is, what the frequency is, when and who etc, and get sigs in advance and after the dose.

You see, that's is my view. I very rarely give my own children any OTC medication. They have had paracetamol/ibuprofen if it has been advised by the Dr, dentist or a nurse, and for when they are genuinely ill, but I don't give it out for coughs, colds, sniffles and teething. It's a standing joke in this family that if anyone's ill, I tell them they need fresh air, sleep & water!
But, that's my way of doing things & am I right to insist children in my care are treated in the same way? I do have parents come to me & say "they're off colour. There's Calpol in the bag. Give it to them if you think they need it". 99% of the time I don't give it to them as I don't think they need it. I control temperature by other methods (cool face cloth, taking some of their clothes off etc) and if that doesn't work & the child is ill, they go home.
And with cough medicines I just hand the bottle back at the end of the day & say they didn't need it.
I would give Calpol if a child was ill & parents were on their way to collect. I wouldn't let a child suffer unnecessarily. But I would like confirmation that it's OK for me to say I won't give some medicines.

[Penny1959]

Some of the things mentioned in this thread such as giving pain relief are mentioned in the Ofsted factsheet http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/content/download/9051/100123/file/Giving%20medication%20in%20childcare.doc

Hope this helps - however does not cover all the issues raised.

Penny :)

[miss mopple]

Epi pen training is a bug bear of mine too. I had to give up caring for a child (on an occasional basis) as I couldn't get the individual child training renewed after it expired and I wasn't prepared to take the risk of not being insured if I had to use it :(

[sarah707]

You have all raised some really good points guys!

Thank you very much.

If anything else comes to mind please add it on :D

[mamasheshe]

i haven't yet and don't know if i feel comfortable giving over the counter medication to children even with parents permission forms ect ect just doesn't sit right to me if they are ill enough to need the medicine shouldn't they be at home? also so much room for error i know they'd be getting the right does mums signed for it but did she ask dad if they had any before they came ? i'm not a massive a worrier as a rule (not a massive medication user) but this does make me worry :panic: