Could I have some help please? got myself in a pickle

[Laura176]

Hello all,

I am recently registered and have been very lucky as the 4 children I have on my books are from familys I already know, so fees were discussed and agreed at £35 per day.

My problem is that I had a family come and visit on Tuesday and they have twin girls of 2.5yrs (lovely children) - they phoned me back on Thursday and said they were interested but were seeing another childminder on Friday, then they called back on Friday to say that they wanted to send the children to me but the fees were too high!!

They want me to pick the girls up from nursery (5 miles from my house) at 11:45am and mind them until 5pm..... I had originally said that I would charge £35 per day per girl, as I would have to leave home at 11am in order to pick the girls up (allowing for traffic etc) - and I explained that I would not be able to get another child from 8am - 11am to fill the day, therefore the day rate would apply?? (not sure if this was right)

ANYWAY ... the Dad said that they want to send the girls to me but fees too high as they are twins, so I agreed to discount to £30 per child per day which is a discount of £10 per day.

My problem is that he can't understand the taking up of the day places and wants to pay me on an hourly rate which works out at £27!

I am really in a pickle as to what to do....any advice gratefully received as he wants to come next Friday to sigh contracts:eek:

[Mookins]

i think you need to stick to your guns and say the prices given are already greatly reduced
£10 a day reduction=£50 a week x by weeks in the year etc etc

you are already losing out just by doing them a favour although you will still have the 2 children not just 3/4 of one iyswim

if they want you they will pay

dont be talked around thats a lot of money to be lsoing out on

xx x

[green puppy]

I think the discount already given is generous enough! They are taking up 2 spaces afterall. I guess it depends how much you need the work but I would not let the parent decide my fees. Do they need holiday care for those hours the lo's would usually be at nursery or if the nursery were to close suddenly? I would stick to what you have told them already.

[Laura176]

Thanks, I already know that they caught me on the hop when asking for the discount! And have probably offered too much! :(

I already mind one set of twins and I offered her a discount for the after school care but NOT the full days in the holidays, she is paying £35 per child per day so therefore so should this family! ...... However, the dads point is that the girls are not a full day!! My point is that they are taking up 2 full day spaces for under 5's - just not sure how to word it to him as he wants to come on Friday to sign and thinks we have agreed on £27 per child per day - which we haven't!!!!!!

[Laura176]

Greenpuppy, I am not sure what would happen if the nursery were to close but the parents are teachers so it is a term time only contract although they would want adhoc cover in holidays so would pay a half fee retainer

:( I have got myself into a bit of a mess over this one :blush:

[berkschick]

I charge per hour and would charge from 11am. I understand you cant get anyone in from 9 - 11 but I think thats just the way it is sometimes. I have a little boy 7.30am - 12.30am daily and so far have been unable to fill the afternoon around him so basically I am missing out on 5 hours pay a day but I wouldnt swop him for anything! I may charge a slightly higher hourly rate but would not charge them for a full day.

Sorry, thats prob not a very popular answer!

[little chickee]

Explain that the day rate is set at £35 because they are paying for the childs (childrens) SPACE and not the actuall hours that you have them.

Try to get him to understand that as it is very unlikey that you will be able to fill a space for just 8am - 11 am that you charge for the space for the day.
And that you have already offered him a hefty discount which you do not ususally do

It very much depends on how much you need the money but i would be very wary of letting him dictate the fee as this may mean they think they can argue over your fees (holidays, days off etc) in the future.

[Mookins]

you can also explain that as they will be paying for the hours they will be open only to those children, so should the nursery close you will still have space for them...cant get any fairer than that really

be firm hun are you worth the money? yes so get paid for it
x x

[green puppy]

Fees are always tricky! This is your business and you decide what you charge. I would explain that you are limited with your under five spaces and can not fill those 2 hours with another child to make up your income. You told them at the start that it would be a daily rate and you have already given a huge discount. Tell them this secures the lo's places for nursery inset days and sudden closures aswell as you would not have another child at that time. Otherwise could you say that anything under 7 hours is a higher hourly fee?

[TheBTeam]

I charge per hour and would charge from 11am. I understand you cant get anyone in from 9 - 11 but I think thats just the way it is sometimes. I have a little boy 7.30am - 12.30am daily and so far have been unable to fill the afternoon around him so basically I am missing out on 5 hours pay a day but I wouldnt swop him for anything! I may charge a slightly higher hourly rate but would not charge them for a full day.

Sorry, thats prob not a very popular answer!

No i agree, i only charge for the hours i have children, i just decide whether i am prepared to accept any non full time hours and live with that.

[FussyElmo]

£35 for a 9 hour day works out at £3.80 an hour.
£27 for a 6 hour day works out at £4.50 an hour.

So depending which way you look at your not getting your day rate but you are getting more a hour.

Depends on how much you want the work and in likelihood how often is the nursery likely to close.

[TammyN]

No i agree, i only charge for the hours i have children, i just decide whether i am prepared to accept any non full time hours and live with that.

i do this too and use the time for paperwork, etc if i have no other lo's, tbh i like a few hours to myself anyway so pre school chn are ideal. i do stress that as they don't pay me between 9-11.30 that i will not pick up early if required, etc they will be responsible to leave work unless they pay me to be 'on call' ;)

[miffy]

I bet he's in a rush to sign - he thinks he's got himself a bargain! :rolleyes:

I think you've already offered a very generous discount and wouldn't lower your price any more.

I bet they've been round all the childminders trying to get a good deal!

If they are going to be this pushy over fees they will probably be over other things too so make sure you stand your ground - as you say it's not fair on other parents who aren't getting discounts and I would tell this parent that too!

Good luck, I think you might need it!

Miffy xx

[The Juggler]

if you decide and only charge for the hours you have then explain you will do it ONLY at a higher hourly rate.

[Emma B123]

I know prices differ for the area but i think asking someone to pay £70 a day childcare in the first place is crazy! Thats £350 a week! you must be raking in a fortune!! (lucky u!:jump for joy: ) Even at £60 a day its still very high. If i had that family my rates would be £19.20 per day x2 (i only charge hours used as i didnt take them to nursery and im not on call while they are there) so £38.40 a day. £192 per week

[Laura176]

Thank You everybody .... I am quite :blush: that I have got myself into such a pickle (I was determined I would stay strong but knew I would buckle under pressure)

If I were to charge a higher hourly rate .... even 50p per hour extra it would work out at £30 per child per day, which is what I have offered him with the discount :rolleyes:

I think I will message him back and say - "As originally explained the fact that I will be minding your girls means that they will be taking up 2 day places, therefore I would have to charge you the daily rate of £35 per child....however, I agreed a discount due to the fact that they are twins (something which I would not usualy do) therefore I feel my fee of £30 per child per day is reasonable as they are still occupying 2 day places."

Does this sound okay? .... but then what if he mentiones the hourly rate again?? :panic:

[berkschick]

How much is your hourly rate?

[Laura176]

Emma - the going rate in my area is £40 per day, so I am already lower than most people in respect of fees, I made sure I did my research on fees before deciding my own, but I seem to have overlooked the fact that the hourly rate and day rate don't add up!! ..... I am deffo not raking it in, these will be my first 2 day places - all others are after school only

[susislittlestar]

i do offer a 50% discount for siblings :o
i know some of u might think its alot but if i would be in the position to have two kids and have to go to work i couldnt afford to pay full prce for both:o
xxx

[The Juggler]

I know prices differ for the area but i think asking someone to pay £70 a day childcare in the first place is crazy! Thats £350 a week! you must be raking in a fortune!! (lucky u!:jump for joy: ) Even at £60 a day its still very high. If i had that family my rates would be £19.20 per day x2 (i only charge hours used as i didnt take them to nursery and im not on call while they are there) so £38.40 a day. £192 per week

but it's not £70/day per child. If this was 2 seperate families you wouldn't offer each a discount. The day rate is £35 which is reasonable. When you have 2 children you have to expect to pay double in childcare costs.

If I have 2 full-timers I would not expect to earn less or do less work just because they comem from the same family. I might round down a bit on the weekly/monthly rate or offer a small discount per hour.

[Laura176]

berkschick - my hourly rate is £4:50 an hour.....so for the 6 hours a day he wants would make it £27

However ........ at the initial visit I told them that I would charge a daily rate of £35 as I would be unable to fill the 3hrs in the morning.

When he first called he said he understood the day space issue but said that £35 was too much and could he have a discount as they are twins! That is when I said I would discount the daily rate fee to £30 per day per child.

Now he is asking to pay the hourly rate!

[Rubybubbles]

I know prices differ for the area but i think asking someone to pay £70 a day childcare in the first place is crazy! Thats £350 a week! you must be raking in a fortune!! (lucky u!:jump for joy: ) Even at £60 a day its still very high. If i had that family my rates would be £19.20 per day x2 (i only charge hours used as i didnt take them to nursery and im not on call while they are there) so £38.40 a day. £192 per week

:( not a fortune once you have spent all your hours planning, cleaning, writing up Learning journals, tax returns, spending time on here for top info:D food ect ect!!

[snufflepuff]

I only charge for the hours required. BUT i wish i had a day rate. Problem is, nobody else around here seems to use day rates so i'd be pricing myself out of the market if i did. My 3 mindees do 5, 6 and 7 hours per day (and thats not every day of the week) and only pay for those hours so i do lose out because i can't fill the hours around them- but i have no choice really.

[Bushpig]

Thank You everybody .... I am quite :blush: that I have got myself into such a pickle (I was determined I would stay strong but knew I would buckle under pressure)

If I were to charge a higher hourly rate .... even 50p per hour extra it would work out at £30 per child per day, which is what I have offered him with the discount :rolleyes:

I think I will message him back and say - "As originally explained the fact that I will be minding your girls means that they will be taking up 2 day places, therefore I would have to charge you the daily rate of £35 per child....however, I agreed a discount due to the fact that they are twins (something which I would not usualy do) therefore I feel my fee of £30 per child per day is reasonable as they are still occupying 2 day places."

Does this sound okay? .... but then what if he mentiones the hourly rate again?? :panic:

Don't text him, email him... far more professional imo :thumbsup:

[Bushpig]

Emma - the going rate in my area is £40 per day, so I am already lower than most people in respect of fees, I made sure I did my research on fees before deciding my own, but I seem to have overlooked the fact that the hourly rate and day rate don't add up!! ..... I am deffo not raking it in, these will be my first 2 day places - all others are after school only

Laura, don't worry about what others charge... areas differ HUGELY ivo fees charged. I charge £65 per day per child... standard fee in my area.

If they want less hours per day I charge a higher fee (£8 per hour) with a minimum of 5 hours... as they are taking a full day space. I am very choosy to whom I give this to tho ;)

[Bushpig]

i do offer a 50% discount for siblings :o
i know some of u might think its alot but if i would be in the position to have two kids and have to go to work i couldnt afford to pay full prce for both:o
xxx

I'd never do this much discount. I've had siblings and charged them less, but not this much... two kids means twice the number of work and cost et al, why should I be so much out of pocket as they come from the same family?

[rickysmiths]

I charge per hour and would charge from 11am. I understand you cant get anyone in from 9 - 11 but I think thats just the way it is sometimes. I have a little boy 7.30am - 12.30am daily and so far have been unable to fill the afternoon around him so basically I am missing out on 5 hours pay a day but I wouldnt swop him for anything! I may charge a slightly higher hourly rate but would not charge them for a full day.

Sorry, thats prob not a very popular answer!



I have to agree with this. It is one reason parents choose childminders over day nurseries.

I would charge from 11am when you leave the house to go and fetch them from Nursery. It is swings and roundabouts but to charge for a whole day I don't think is fair. If you don't want the work from 11am and want a full timer then don't take on the twins and wait for 2 full timers.

I must confess I wouldn't commit to a 10 mile round trip in the car every day either. What will you do in the snow or if your car bredaks down? Is it fair on the other mindees to be in the car so long each day?

[rickysmiths]

I know prices differ for the area but i think asking someone to pay £70 a day childcare in the first place is crazy! Thats £350 a week! you must be raking in a fortune!! (lucky u!:jump for joy: ) Even at £60 a day its still very high. If i had that family my rates would be £19.20 per day x2 (i only charge hours used as i didnt take them to nursery and im not on call while they are there) so £38.40 a day. £192 per week


Yes it does vary and a 10 hour day with me would be £45 so £90 for 2.

The child I have had the longest is paying £4ph so £40 for a 10 hour day they have been with me for 4yrs and I haven't put their rate up until now and we have just sorted out the new hours for Sept when they start school and I have put them on my current rates with no complaints. So £5pr for after school and £4.50ph for full time in the holidays.

I don't consider I am raking in a fortune. I am earning a reasonable amount but I have high out goings, I live in SE and pay high Council Tax and water rates etc. My cm Expenses have been approx £9-10,000 a year for the last few years.

I currently have siblings on my books, both full time and they pay me just under £2000 per month thats including a small discount for the older sibling. I charge the same hourly rate as all the other local cms £4.50 per hour. I realise it is hard when there are two from a family but thats the way it goes. Nurseries around here charge more and only give a very small sibling discount. All the good minders around here are always full so the fees don't appear to be too much of an issue.

Just up the road from me, about 15 miles the minders are charging £6ph and so are some where I moved from 6yrs ago.

[rickysmiths]

i do offer a 50% discount for siblings :o
i know some of u might think its alot but if i would be in the position to have two kids and have to go to work i couldnt afford to pay full prce for both:o
xxx

Golly I would go broke if I offered a discount like this. :eek:

[Laura176]

Thank You for all your advice - I emailed saying that the rate was £30 per child per day and that was discounted enough - therefore during school holidays a £15 per child per day retainer ................................. and he said yes!!!

He wants to come and sign on Friday, so I advised of payment in advance - now he is saying that he doesn't want care until 1st Sept, so will pay a month in advance wef - 1st Sept. Shouldn't he pay from Friday if he signs on Friday?????

Am not sure what to do here to be honest, I feel like this family might cause trouble from the start :(

[berkschick]

Thats up to you i guess!

I often sign contracts in advance but I personally dont charge until they want it to start.

If you have the spaces free now then you could charge them a retainer between now and when they want to use you.

[Laura176]

Yes, I do have immediate vacancies, so realisticly if he signs on Friday but doesn't pay until Sept - I could possibly be losing out on an immediate start!

I don't like all this, I knew I would fall down with payments etc :(

Maybe I could charge the first months payment (so Septembers payment) on Friday as a deposit and then if they don't start I keep that but if they do, I could use it as septembers payment?

I would welcome any advice

[The Juggler]

Yes, I do have immediate vacancies, so realisticly if he signs on Friday but doesn't pay until Sept - I could possibly be losing out on an immediate start!

I don't like all this, I knew I would fall down with payments etc :(

Maybe I could charge the first months payment (so Septembers payment) on Friday as a deposit and then if they don't start I keep that but if they do, I could use it as septembers payment?

I would welcome any advice

def a months fees upfront as a deposit. non-refundable if they don't start.:)

[susislittlestar]

Golly I would go broke if I offered a discount like this. :eek:

i know its alot but thats whyt the other childminder here does as well so really had to go with it but dont really mind! in the end they are siblings and i think its nice to have t2 kids from one family asthey know each other and wont get too bored too fast :cool:

it doesnt really cost me any more apart from the snack which isnt that much really to be fair.... :rolleyes:

[snufflepuff]

If he wants them to start in Sept i'd take a months fees now as deposit. Personally i keep that to cover the final months fees (so he will still need to pay for Sept when the time comes) others use the deposit to cover the first month as you suggested.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

i do offer a 50% discount for siblings :o
i know some of u might think its alot but if i would be in the position to have two kids and have to go to work i couldnt afford to pay full prce for both:o
xxx

How do you afford to stay at home and work for 50% off. My under 5 spaces are full and paid for 100%. Tax credits are a great assistance to parents on low incomes so it is you that are missing out and not the parent gaining.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would ask for 1 months money in advance as a non refundable deposit which will come off of September fees. This way you have the place secured and he has a secured place.

Otherwise explain that until the money is paid the places are not secured and that you can offer another family the places.

I would also work one month in advance with this family, invoice around 20th of the month and the full amount needs to be cleared funds in your bank by 1st of each month.

Be strong and stand up for what you want.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

i know its alot but thats whyt the other childminder here does as well so really had to go with it but dont really mind! in the end they are siblings and i think its nice to have t2 kids from one family asthey know each other and wont get too bored too fast :cool:

it doesnt really cost me any more apart from the snack which isnt that much really to be fair.... :rolleyes:

I think we all work the same but don't copy others just because they do it that way. Set the standard and the older mindees will respect you for it

[susislittlestar]

How do you afford to stay at home and work for 50% off. My under 5 spaces are full and paid for 100%. Tax credits are a great assistance to parents on low incomes so it is you that are missing out and not the parent gaining.

how can i afford it??? i ve got one full payin child and his sister and holiday kids are all normal fees apart from the ones with siblings, im not doin this job to get rich, its to be home with my son and help others out and make SOME money out of it! :o

[susislittlestar]

ant the parents dont get tax credit apart from the normal rate but no help with childcare etc. which i know as they in same position as i was before when i tried to find a job and got told i would get NONE :panic: