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David Sheppard
01-11-2009, 08:50 AM
Hi all,

I put a post in the Lounge relaying an amusing incident last night with a couple of youngsters Trick or Treating. That thread has raised an issue that could do with an airing I think.

I personally love Trick or Treat and Halloween. We have a party, do craft activities, get the children dressed up, have loads of fun and derive a lot of joy from the smiling faces that appear at the door. My grandchildren are generally the first to arrive before they go off with mum and dad to 'fill' their cauldrons with treats in the area.

Of course I understand there could be considered an underlying, polluting and terrifying side - if you were prepared to allow it. You could even argue it is encouraging begging! Except, I believe this is no more sinister than perpetuating the enchantment of the 'tooth fairy' or 'santa claus'. It is just a really great excuse for the community to integrate.

I remember in my childhood 'Penny for the Guy' and how much fun it was creating a Guy, taking it to the local shops and getting loads of money for fireworks (and sweets he he).

So what are your thoughts?

Regards

David

miss mopple
01-11-2009, 08:55 AM
Just expressed my thoughts in the other thread but Im afraid I hate it

The Juggler
01-11-2009, 08:59 AM
mixed feelings. I think it's down to the kids supervising the adults. I saw the kids on the news yesterday who were being dropped off by parents in 4x4's and going in and harassing people in restaurants!

Having said that my kids were at grandparents so we gave some chocs to the girl next door then put out the lights and didn't answer the door for rest of the evening. we were doing candles and wine:blush:

FizzysFriends
01-11-2009, 09:01 AM
I don't love it or hate it. We had a party but I don't let DD knock on strangers doors and demand sweets.

miss mopple
01-11-2009, 09:05 AM
sorry for short reply- mindee demanded my attention. How unreasonable of him :laughing:

I dont get whats so fun about dressing up all ghoulish and walking around after dark, potentially scaring the wits out of people.

I do put a note on my door and most trick or treaters respect that (mostly little kids out with parents), which is great, but the odd few dont and the door still gets knocked- usually later when you just know its bigger oiks out for what they can get. I ignore it and feel like I have to hide in my own home with doors shut and the lights off. Its not a nice feeling.

I have elderly frail relatives who also feel this way and its saddens me that they have to feel scared in their homes :(

I also think its tantamount to begging to be honest. And there is no way I want my kids eating obscene amounts of sweets, even if it is only once a year. It goes agaianst everything I teach them the rest of the year round.

Its something I feel really quite strongly about and has caused many an argument with my eldest whos 10 and has never been allowed to ToT, but we wont waver as we wont go against our principles on this one.

ajs
01-11-2009, 09:08 AM
i grew up in central london in the 60s and early 70s and i had more american and canadian friends than english ones.
so i have celebrated halloween all of my life


every year we decorate the front porch, with skeletons and spiders webs i have eerie music playing and the biggest pumpkin we can find

we have very strict rules about trick or treating though and my kids have always understood these

you must always stand a step back so if it is an elderly person opening the door you are not so threatening or right in their face
you must of course be polite and always say thank you
you must respect peoples wishes not to open the door ( the street we live in seems to have a high percentage of practicing christians who do not celebrate halloween) but over the years we've worked out the people who will and who won't open the door
and when we get home ALL of the booty is tipped on the floor and shared equally so noone gets more or less than any one else.

i love it and agree with you David that it's no different than the myth of santa and the tooth fairy

if it's done properly it is all good fun, i refuse to offer anything to children that are simply begging and have been known to send them away to make an effort

last night two boys ( about 14 ) knocked they had pulled their jackets over their heads and said they were headless i laughed and told them if they made a little more effort they could come back, about 5 mins later they had obvioulsy raided their mothers make up box as they had whited their faces and smeared red lipstick all over their mouths and they got a share of the booty

FussyElmo
01-11-2009, 09:26 AM
We had hardly any trick or treaters last night. We went to a party friday so the children went then. My children love to dress up and get chocolate - bless sometimes you would think that they never had any. But I understand the flip slip we are celebrating all hallows eve which we shouldnt but lets be honest how many people actually think of that part of halloween.

I loved penny for a guy but we had strict instructions where we were allowed to go. We will be making a guy this week as fingers crossed we will be having a bonfire party.

Pipsqueak
01-11-2009, 09:32 AM
I like and respect the All Hallows traditions but I had the spectacle that Halloween has turned into.

I had a trick/treater on Friday night - young girl about 8/9 yrs old (with her sisters) - I said sorry I have no treats left but have a nice night - I got a mouthful back (foul) and a 'you'd better watch out for your car later'! Nice child.

A couple of years back my friend answered her door (baby in arms) and there were two fully grown adults - one laying on the floor - as she opened the door - the one laying on the floor grabbed her ankle and dragged her down. Luckily both mum and baby were ok but her husband punched the blokes lights out!

Where I live there are a very high concentration of travellers and their children are not the most respectful - nor do they even bother dressing up - they just pull their hoods over their heads. Sorry if that sounds sterotypical and judgemental of me but I have had so much 'experience' of them:(

Blackhorse
01-11-2009, 09:42 AM
This is the first year I had anything to do with halloween as it is the first year of me being a childminder.
My dd is only 21months old so not taking her out to trick our treat

The reason I have never done anything for Halloween is that where I come from (austria) we dont really celebrate it as it is not in our cultural heritage to do so....we have plenty of other celebrations thoughout the year and some of them most people over here probably dont even know about...some of them very nice and dear to my heart as I grew up with them.
Some of them are also quite scary actually....I remember as children we were petrified of some of these ...I think I will do another thread with some of our own customs around this time of your.....might be something of intrest to some of you I hope...:)

what bothers me though is that retailers/shops/sweety sellers back home jump on the bandwagon of we have to all celebrate halloween because they can sell more stuff...I am not against teaching kids to celebrate different things but if your country doesnt do halloween then why force it??
A lot of people back home think the same way about halloween and even other festivities...take for example christmas...we have our own way of celebrating it and never had santa clause....now we do because it is imported from coca cola...via films on tv, adverts, big companies pushing products...and what I find sad about it is that it tends to push away our own traditions and customs..they simply get replaced by the new stuff and can lead to erosion of your own culture..which I personally find sad as these things should at least be allowed to remain side by side..or maybe I am just oldfashioned that way
....
but I guess I dont like the whole comercial side of any of these festivities be it halloween, christmas, easter where retailers just want us to buy more stuff..more decorations..more sweets....more presents...and the actual point behind the holiday gets lost

what I do enjoy though about it is all the nice arts and crafts things you can do with the kids...homemade little things...carving pumpkins...making halloween cupcakes....paper witches etc etc...

I guess in the end it is just what you make of it....like anything else

mandy moo
01-11-2009, 09:47 AM
i grew up in central london in the 60s and early 70s and i had more american and canadian friends than english ones.
so i have celebrated halloween all of my life


every year we decorate the front porch, with skeletons and spiders webs i have eerie music playing and the biggest pumpkin we can findwe have very strict rules about trick or treating though and my kids have always understood these

I take my two trick or treating with my sister, neice and nephew, we only go to houses with pumpkins and stuff out side.

you must always stand a step back so if it is an elderly person opening the door you are not so threatening or right in their face
you must of course be polite and always say thank you
you must respect peoples wishes not to open the door ( the street we live in seems to have a high percentage of practicing christians who do not celebrate halloween) but over the years we've worked out the people who will and who won't open the door
We only ring or knock once and then leaveif door isnt opened,
We adults always shout thankyou too, after the kids have said their thankyous.
and when we get home ALL of the booty is tipped on the floor and shared equally so noone gets more or less than any one else

i love it and agree with you David that it's no different than the myth of santa and the tooth fairy

if it's done properly it is all good fun, i refuse to offer anything to children that are simply begging and have been known to send them away to make an effort
We rarley get trick or treaters as we live at the end of a close, a couple of yeasr ago had some knock on the door, 13 or14 yrs old I say (no adult with them) hadnt even bothered with face paint,
Once my boys get to that age, we will stop trick or treating as I think
1)their too old
2) too intimidating, as my just turned 11 yr old is 5ft 3in almost as tall as me
last night two boys ( about 14 ) knocked they had pulled their jackets over their heads and said they were headless i laughed and told them if they made a little more effort they could come back, about 5 mins later they had obvioulsy raided their mothers make up box as they had whited their faces and smeared red lipstick all over their mouths and they got a share of the booty

One thing I dont likeis the kids in our village thinks is fine, to go into our local small village supermarket and ask for treats in there. thats a no no IMO

As you say Mandy if done thoughtfully, I think its fine.

Pauline
01-11-2009, 10:01 AM
I've moved this to the Lounge David as it is not a specific childminding topic. :)

When I was a child Carol singing was very popular but at least the person got a song or two to listen to, in return for their treat. With trick or treat there is nothing, just a demand for a treat.

I've even said that I would prefer a trick but the kids look at you like you were mad!! :)

Hebs
01-11-2009, 10:14 AM
i HATE it with a passion

i refused to take my 2 trick or treating last night.

i also think it's like begging,

i dont mind kids getting dressed up and going to a halloween party but i dont like them knocking on strangers doors, esp kids with no adults with them :panic:

Twinkles
01-11-2009, 10:17 AM
As Christians we don't celebrate Halloween. I know others on here are Christians and do celebrate it , that's fine everyone has a choice.
I wouldn't presume to judge anyone who decides to celebrate it.

At Church we are taught that it is a celebration of all things dark. I'm not sure it is that simple but as I am a practising Christian I feel I have to take guidance from the leader of our Church ( not blindly following , just guidance ).

I do think the little ones look cute all dressed up and they have great fun.

We either don't answer our door or just explain we are Christians and don't celebrate it .

Mouse
01-11-2009, 10:26 AM
When I was a child Carol singing was very popular but at least the person got a song or two to listen to, in return for their treat. With trick or treat there is nothing, just a demand for a treat.



I agree Pauline - Where I grew up we celebrated Hop-Tu-Naa not Halloween and went round the houses with our turnip lanterns, singing a song. At least we had to do something for our sweeties!

I do take my children Trick or Treating, but we tend to go to people we know or to houses where they have a pumpkin or sign in the window saying they're happy for you to knock.
I also put a lit pumpkin in our window, so children know they can call here. We didn't actually have many callers last night (good job as I forgot to get any sweets in!), but the ones who did come were imaginatively dressed and polite. I'm quite happy with that. The ones I send away are the ones who have made no effort at all & just stand there looking at you, waiting for sweets.

Roseolivia
01-11-2009, 10:51 AM
I live in a small village and i'm sure it's banned by the parish council because not once in the 5yrs we've been here have we had anyone knock on our door.
I don't mind Halloween but i'm not sure if i'll let Rose go out trick or treating when she's older or not. If there's a few of her friends and parents maybe, but i think in todays society it can be quite dangerous which is a real shame. I'd rather have a Halloween party at home which we did last year and i may do it next year.

singingcactus
01-11-2009, 11:11 AM
I love it. It is so much fun to hang out in the front yard and see all the great costumes and disguises.
It's a great opportunity to chat and play with the neighbours (we all know about long working hours and how hard it is to get to see the neighbours).
The kids are great fun and giggle and play the part well. My kids love to jump out and scare the visiting kids too. We tend not to go out and trick or treat cos we are having too much fun at home handing out sweeties to all the little kids who come to us.
My mum always used to say it was begging and celebrating the devil (she is also a christian - a minister) but try as I might I can't see it as begging. It's kids having fun and having a massive street party :). There is no rule saying that you have to answer your door (and I know that there are a few who try to turn a fun night into something else, but that should not cause us to tar all trick or treaters with the same brush)
And, although trick or treating is a whole different thing, I like to see hallowe'en being more accepted at last as a spiritual and meaningful celebration, with people researching it much more rather than just saying it is devil worship and bad. I have always found it unfair that all religions have equal respect in our culture except paganism. But like I said, that is different to the modern trick or treat fun.

devoncm
01-11-2009, 11:45 AM
I took our 3 to my sisters and we had a little party there, went out a bit later, but we only knock on doors if they have decs out-then they expect it, or if they have lights on we will knock once. They must always say thank you and be polite too.

One yera my brother dressed up and layed on the roof, when people knocked he would move slightly his hand down so he would be noticed and as they fot there treat he would give them a squirt of water, they loved it

I do remember when i used o do it as a child people would ask you what the trick was, nobody seems to do the trick side any more.

daisyboo1980
01-11-2009, 11:48 AM
we dont get many here but i think its because ive 2 big dogs that bark when the door gets knocked
but my sister only lets my niece and nephew go trick or treating to my house, my gran , her friend and my nieces friend house and next door now as i have started minding them and they were telling each other to call and either my sis or bro in law is with them never on their own

LOOPYLISA
01-11-2009, 11:55 AM
I can't ay i love it or hate it tbh

I do feel for the elderly who im sure are scared, my 85 yr old nan has a resorted to a poster on her window asking not to knock, it must be a scarey night for them.

My dd did go to a halloween party last night, what i wasnt happy about was the parents didnt go with them :rolleyes:

I must admit we hardly ever go trick or treating in previous years and if we did i make sure i ALWAYS go with her :thumbsup:

PixiePetal
01-11-2009, 01:30 PM
When my kids were younger and we lived on an estate, I pre arranged who we would be calling on during the week before. Also if the houses are decorated that is a sign to call for any other houses who I have not warned :) . No decs meant no treats and leave them to have a peaceful evening. I always went with them too.

As the kids got older, we decorated and gave out treats instead.

Yesterday we had a party in our new house - DS 13th birthday next week so made it a joint occasion with halloween and housewarming for kids - good fun was had by all :thumbsup:

As long as you respect peoples wishes to join in or be left alone, I don't see a problem. But then respect is not something some people teach their children and with some of the neighbours we had on the estate, scrounging was more the word to use.

Now don't get me started on the so called carol singers :angry: If I hear 'we wish you a merry christmas' on the doorstep ever again I will scream. What happened to Once in Royal Davids City etc?? Sorry OT there for a moment. :laughing: :angry:

Trouble
01-11-2009, 01:54 PM
in recent years i used to decorate my house have partys and was just as excited about it as my kids

my kids are now 13 16 and my box of decorations has moved for the last 2 years

im sad as im not excited about it anymore which means my kids are growing up 2 fast:( :(

Pudding Girl
01-11-2009, 02:03 PM
When I was a child Carol singing was very popular but at least the person got a song or two to listen to, in return for their treat. With trick or treat there is nothing, just a demand for a treat.



Not in Scotland :) it's a lvoely family atmosphere, children are only allowed to knock on houses with obvious signs of pumpkins/posters etc such a change from where I used to live in Midlands where it would feel very scary and intimidating and older teens with just a mask on and demanding cash from you :angry:

It's called guising and you have to do a little skit, a song, a dance, tell a joke or something when you knock the door.

One lot at my door told me a joke, and I told them one back:

Knock knock
who's there
ghosts go
ghosts go who?
no ghost go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


And he kids were all wow that's a wicked joke, can we use yours instead?

:clapping: :thumbsup:

mama2three
01-11-2009, 03:13 PM
I cant say i 'hate' halloween , but certainly wont celebrate it! My boys have never been allowed to go trick or treating - i feel it is begging at best , and irresponsible at worst - many children are unaccompanied and knocking at the doors of complete strangers. Parents spend the rest of the year teaching of 'stranger danger ' and never accept sweeties from a strange man , only to encourage it one day a year. Older children look with disdain at an offfered lollipop ,expecting a pound coin at least! It bears no comparison whatsoever to the tooth fairy or other myths there there is no risk to anyone and people are not made to feel uncomfortable in their own homes.

miss mopple
01-11-2009, 03:21 PM
well said mama :thumbsup:

jelly15
01-11-2009, 04:17 PM
I agree with Mamma too. I did arts and crafts with mindees for Halloween but have never let my own trick or treat. Having said that last night DH and DSs were not home and I had a small selection of sweets in case. Didn't mind LOs but when 8 teenagers knocked at once felt a bit uncomfortable.

Chimps Childminding
01-11-2009, 06:22 PM
I cant say i 'hate' halloween , but certainly wont celebrate it! My boys have never been allowed to go trick or treating - i feel it is begging at best , and irresponsible at worst - many children are unaccompanied and knocking at the doors of complete strangers. Parents spend the rest of the year teaching of 'stranger danger ' and never accept sweeties from a strange man , only to encourage it one day a year. Older children look with disdain at an offfered lollipop ,expecting a pound coin at least! It bears no comparison whatsoever to the tooth fairy or other myths there there is no risk to anyone and people are not made to feel uncomfortable in their own homes.

I have to agree. My boys were never allowed to go trick or treating (horrible mum that I am!!) We live on a medium sized estate and it is surprising how many children come from other local villages to knock on our doors :angry: This year as I wasn't working on Friday I didn't put any decorations out, but still had dozens of children knocking on the door "trick or treating", but no sign of any tricks, just a bag being held out. There were about 6 10 year olds (well I know some of them are at middle school) who came and literally grabbed handfulls!!:angry: I don't mind the little ones, and to be honest all the lo's that came were accompanied by adults, but the older ones, don't even speak to you the rest of the year!!!:angry:

Lou
01-11-2009, 06:47 PM
I Love it, we had a lovely day yesterday, we decorated the front of the house with cobwebs, skeletons balloons etc.

I bought my 2 a pumpkin each, and they drew designs of how they wanted them to look, and then DH helped them carve them like their designs.

They both dressed up and i painted their faces. DS (11) wanted to go trick or treating with his mates, so for the first time (without me) he was allowed after a VERY long lecture!!!!

I took DD (6) and her friend out and DH stayed at home and answered the door.

We have very strict rules, we live in a village which is largely made up of young families so are lucky. We only knock at doors if people have decorations/pumpkins. We only knock once and then leave. the children stand back from the door, and always say thankyou. I was also shouting thankyou from the pavement.

Everyone who called here was lovely and polite, and i was really impressed. The last callers were at about 8pm, and were teenagers, i told then i thought they were a bit old for it, but i had some home made pumpkin biscuits left which my DD had made during the day and they were very grateful and said how lovely the biscuits were and how clever she was......she was beaming.

I guess unfortunatly sometimes they are the minority that ruin it for others, but then thats the case with most things!!!!

Ripeberry
01-11-2009, 08:14 PM
This year we went camping in the middle of Wales to get away from it all for a bit. In our small estate there are over 40 kids and they come over and it costs a fortune in sweets.
So we went camping in a Yurt with 2 other famillies and had a great time doing a 'chocolate coin hunt' in the pitch dark (not too dark as there was a full moon) and we gave the kids a large glow stick and told them to look at the foot of every tree.
Kept them occupied for ages and then my husband dressed up as a ghost and chased them round the field.
Much more fun! :laughing: