When our own start full time school...?

[mum2two]

What happens to our certs? I have the condition on mine that says when caring for a 4 or 5 yr old in full time education, may increase under 5's numbers...

But what about our own. I can care for 2 under 5, but DS is starting full time soon. As he's not part of my stated numbers, if I care for an extra one - effectivley I'm over numbers. Are ofsted amending reg numbers when your own start full time...?

Hope that makes some kind of sense - or I'll be having to apply for a variation, due to baby being born. I assume baby will take DS space (plus an under 1), but DS will move into 5-8, so will kind of stay the same as it is now... If not - I have a problem as DS is not 5 til next Aug...! :panic:

I have e-mailed ofsted all the details, and had a pro forma questionaire which I have filled out & sent back, just wondered if anyone knows how they go about it with your own children & school?

x

[HomefromHome]

your child is now a rising five so can count towards your 5-8 group.
you just need to ring ofsted and explain your child is in reception now (ie, full time), explain about baby. and you are right doesnt really affect your under 5 ratio!:)

[madasahatter]

your child is now a rising five so can count towards your 5-8 group.
you just need to ring ofsted and explain your child is in reception now (ie, full time), explain about baby. and you are right doesnt really affect your under 5 ratio!

You can't amend the number of children you are allowed to care for in the under 5's age group just because your own child is in full time school. Your child does not appear on your certificate and the conditions on your certificate apply to minded children only. If your child is in full time school you need to check with ofsted and get a new certificate.

[mum2two]

You can't amend the number of children you are allowed to care for in the under 5's age group just because your own child is in full time school. Your child does not appear on your certificate and the conditions on your certificate apply to minded children only. If your child is in full time school you need to check with ofsted and get a new certificate.

I know I can't just amend the no of kids, as he's my own, but was wondering if anyone knew if ofsted amended your registered numbers to reflect he's now a 'rising 5'

Seems silly, as if he wasn't my own, he can count as an over 5, so surely, they should amend my cert to reflect my numbers. (alright it won't really change as DD will take his place now...)

x

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I know I can't just amend the no of kids, as he's my own, but was wondering if anyone knew if ofsted amended your registered numbers to reflect he's now a 'rising 5'

Seems silly, as if he wasn't my own, he can count as an over 5, so surely, they should amend my cert to reflect my numbers. (alright it won't really change as DD will take his place now...)

x

You can only have a max of 6 under 8 so until you own DD turns 8 it will stay that way. it is just the combination of those ages that will change and a new certificate will read 5 under 8 of which no more than 3 can be under 5. it allows you still to have 5 under 8.

[jaja]

ummmmm. my dd is 4 rising 5 full time school. but her in full time school i was told and my certificate states when dealing with children who are 4 in full time education they are classed as the next group so therefore you could take another child on under 5, like mine is 4 children under 8 of these no more than 3 under 5 and 1 under 1 at any one time, making my dd is my 5-8,

hope this makes sense, if not sarah nev will help you shes great xxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sorry I got lost in the wording but I think you are asking if you child is 4 but in full time education she can be classed as a rising 5 and you can apply to Ofsted to have her moved from the Under 5's to Over 5's.

[Shivvie]

Hi. This has just happened to me as my son started school in September. I applied to get my certificate changed, but they can't change the number of children under 5 as, although our own children are in full-time education, they are still in the early years age group until they are 5 years old. I am allowed to increase my numbers though and this is reflected in a variation on the certificate. :)

[mum2two]

Hi. This has just happened to me as my son started school in September. I applied to get my certificate changed, but they can't change the number of children under 5 as, although our own children are in full-time education, they are still in the early years age group until they are 5 years old. I am allowed to increase my numbers though and this is reflected in a variation on the certificate. :)

Fantastic - yet another variation we'll have to have on our certificates...!

Ours are already spread over 2 pages, and as we work together that's 4 certs we have to have on display... :rolleyes:

Just in case anyones interested, this is how our certificates currently read... Ofsted certainly can't say I don't keep them informed about anything...!!! :laughing:

The registered person:

•when caring for 4 or 5-year-old children who are in full time education, may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded (Early Years Register)
•may only care for such children during school and preschool collection and drop off times. This exception applies until one of those named children is no longer in the early years age group or is no longer cared for by the childminder (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•may exceed this ratio,when working with an assistant,to allow 6 children in the early years age group for the children named on the variation request of 21/04/2009 (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•must not provide overnight care (Early Years Register, Compulsory part of the Childcare Register, Voluntary part of the Childcare Register)
•may care for no more than 4 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 2 may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1 year at any one time (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•may only care for such children on Tuesdays and Fridays between 11am - 3pm. This exception applies until one of those named children is no longer in the early years age group or is no longer cared for by the childminder (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•when working with an assistant, at the above premises may care for no more than 10 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 5 may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than 2 may be under 1 year at any one time (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•may exceed this ratio to allow 3 children in the early years age group for the children named on the variation request of 27/04/2009 (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)
•may at times agreed and confirmed in writing by parents, leave an assistant in sole charge of the children (Early Years Register, Compulsory part of the Childcare Register, Voluntary part of the Childcare Register)

THE END!!!!

x

[Denise D]

Hi. This has just happened to me as my son started school in September. I applied to get my certificate changed, but they can't change the number of children under 5 as, although our own children are in full-time education, they are still in the early years age group until they are 5 years old. I am allowed to increase my numbers though and this is reflected in a variation on the certificate. :)

I am in this exact same situation. So, just to be perfectly clear, Ofsted will not class my rising five child in full time reception as 5-8 if I ask them to change my certificate? I won't be able to free up a early years space?? This seems so unfair as taking on another full-time child could really help me out financially. Does Ofsted typically grant variations for this when asked in specific cases? I really need to make this work!

[Shivvie]

Hi, got to write quick so apologies if it doesn't make sense!

Yes you are allowed another child once yours starts school, but they won't change the certificate wording until your child is 5. My example is that, when working with an assistant, I can have 5 children in the early years age group and they won't change it to 6 until my son is 5 years old, even though I can actually care for 6 early years children as my child is at school.

You will be given a variation to cover it if you wish, although they did tell me that I didn't even need a variation on my certificate, I could just do it. I got the variation for my own peace of mind.

Give them a ring or email them to clarify it for yourself, but you will be able to increase your numbers.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I'll write more later if you don't get it, but I have just popped on whilst hubby is with the children. :)

[Denise D]

Yes you are allowed another child once yours starts school, but they won't change the certificate wording until your child is 5. My example is that, when working with an assistant, I can have 5 children in the early years age group and they won't change it to 6 until my son is 5 years old, even though I can actually care for 6 early years children as my child is at school.

You will be given a variation to cover it if you wish, although they did tell me that I didn't even need a variation on my certificate, I could just do it. I got the variation for my own peace of mind.



Thanks for this. I do get what you mean. You have been so helpful to me. I appreciate knowing that they won't change the certificate, but will grant the variation.

My certificate reads,

may care for no more than 4 children under 8 years, not more than 1 may be in the early years age group,..."

and
"when caring for 4 or 5-year-old children who are in full time education, may increase the number of children in the early years age group by the number of children who are in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded."

This part gets me because it is essentially saying I can have one more in the early years group if the other is a reception student, but completely ignores the fact that my daughter is in year R. I think I will do like you have done and apply for a variation as you said just for my own peace of mind.

[Shivvie]

"when caring for 4 or 5-year-old children who are in full time education, may increase the number of children in the early years age group by the number of children who are in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded."

Hi Denise

This variation on your certificate reads exactly the same as mine for when my child started school, so it looks like you're covered for your child being in reception.

The way I read your certificate, you can look after 2 children in the early years age group, two under 8 plus your own child (as our own children aren't on the certificate). This is the case for me and I treble checked it with Ofsted as it didn't seem right.

Please give Ofsted a ring and don't take my word for it, but I'm sure that, because you've already got that variation in place, it will cover your child too. :thumbsup:

[samd35]

Hi

My son starts full time school in Jan 2010. I applied to Ofsted back in May to see if I could care for another child under the age of 5 as my son would be in school.
My certificate did read that I could care for 5 children under the age of 8, of these not more than 2 under 5 and of these 2 not more than one under the age of 1.
They called me to say that they can add the paragraph to read "when caring for 4 or 5 year old children who are in full time education, may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded. She then went on to say that means that you can care for another under the age of 5.

I do undertsand that my son is not in my numbers on my certificate.

It is all very confusing but how I understand it is the number of children I can care for in full time education is 3 on my certificate so putting the paragraph on my certificate means I can have 3 under 5.

Sam x

[Denise D]

Thanks for the reassurances. I can see what you both mean about that addition to the registration certificates. I think what makes it confusing is that our own children are not included on the certificate, so when they say, "when caring for 4 and 5-year-olds..." it makes me think they only mean when caring for mindees who are 4 and 5.

You would think that Ofsted would just make it simple rather than adding indecipherable clauses onto the certificates! :p

[mum2two]

I will need the variation actually written onto my certificate, as I live in a little village, where the other minders are constantly watching and counting. If it's not written onto my certificate, then I'm sure one of the others would report me...

I'd rather have the extra variation on our certificates to cover us!

Will give them a call next week, as we're back to work in 2 weeks, so need the certs amending.

x

[Denise D]

Hi Mum2two,

Best wishes for the variation. Could you let us know how it works out and what Ofsted says? Thanks! :)

[little_gems]

just thought u should no this:
I have a daughter who is now in full time school so i rang ofsted so that my numbers under5 go from 1 -2 as i have a 2 year old son as well. but was told that while she is in school i can replace her with another under 5 BUT during school holidays and if she was ill and not at school she would return to an under 5!!!

Other children in my care that have now started full time school this wouldnt apply to just my own!!!

i though that the person on the phone had got this wrong but i now a few childminders in the same postion and have also been given this information.

I'm waiting for someone to get back to me from ofsted as im sure this cant be right.

[Shivvie]

You would think that Ofsted would just make it simple rather than adding indecipherable clauses onto the certificates! :p

Couldn't agree more! Writing it in simple terms would be easier for all. :thumbsup: