Bank Holiday Charges

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Due to a lot of comments on a different thread I thought I would start one just for this topic.

it is my belief and that of NCMA that you can charge for bank holidays if you are prepared to work them and that you can negotiate a raised fee with the parent.

NCMA do state that maybe you shouldn't charge if you are not prepared to work but that is an opinion as far as I can tell and not law as we are self employed.

I am willing to work BH but only for double time of all 3 of my under 5's so my rate is £25.00 per hour. I can hear the gasps as I type from those of you who work BH's but any other occupation (excluding train drivers!) get double pay so why shouldn't I set mine myself?

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Due to a lot of comments on a different thread I thought I would start one just for this topic.

it is my belief and that of NCMA that you can charge for bank holidays if you are prepared to work them and that you can negotiate a raised fee with the parent.

NCMA do state that maybe you shouldn't charge if you are not prepared to work but that is an opinion as far as I can tell and not law as we are self employed.

I am willing to work BH but only for double time of all 3 of my under 5's so my rate is £25.00 per hour. I can hear the gasps as I type from those of you who work BH's but any other occupation (excluding train drivers!) get double pay so why shouldn't I set mine myself?

[FussyElmo]

I dont charge as I dont work bank holidays.

I have in the past worked Good Friday and charged normal rate. The parent worked in a shop and didn't get any enhanced pay.

But not all workers get double time. My dh for example doesnt and he has to work them if they form part of his shifts. The only days where he gets enhanced pay is christmas day, boxing day and new years day.

Suppose in my case it would depend on the parent whether I would work even though I put in all my contracts i charge double time for bank holidays if I was available!!

[Playmate]

I tell parents I'm available at double hourly rate and that is what is stated in my contract. funnily enough I have never been asked to work one :laughing:

[TheBTeam]

I do not wish to work bank holidays for anybody, and because of the change to the ncma contracts have decided that i am now charging a higher rate per hour for new families that will be on the new nonbank holiday friendly contracts, existing families on the old contracts are still as negotiated, some pay some don't!

[christine e]

My point is that NCMA are encouraging us to negotiate paid holidays on one hand and on the other hand telling us we can't charge for bank holidays because we are not available, well we are not available if we are on holiday. I just don't get it! This is what I intend bringing up at the next regional forum in the open forum.

Christine

[Pipsqueak]

I'd just be interested to know exactly where they get off telling us this when we are self employed. no other S/E person is dictated to about their fees/charges. OK you set your charges in line with local rates. Brian is slightly cheaper than most places offering the same service but the difference is he comes with experience, honesty (he won't overcharge or overprice or suggest added extras onto the bill), integrity and pride in his work.

they - NCMA didn't consult us about the changes on the contract and that makes me cross as well.

I must admit I am seriously considering switching to MM next year

[wendywu]

My DH works BH as part of a shift pattern, BUT gets paid and a extra day off as well. So he is in fact paying double.

I charge if it falls on a contracted day, but do not work. I will not be altering anything. :panic:

[rickysmiths]

I charge if the Bank Hol falls on a contracted day. I am always happy to work given enough notice (4weeks in contract).

If I work it is double fee except for Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day which are triple fee. So £10 or £15ph.

In 15 years I have only ever been asked to work once and that was a Boxing Day 4 years ago. It was great fun the mindee joined in with all the family fun, it wasn't like working and I got paid to boot!

[tammerisk]

i don't work b/h and i have always charged for thesedays if the are a normal contracted day and i am not on my anual leave (christmas and boxing day and new years day are part of my anual leave which i do not charge for.)

but the others in may and august and for easter i charge for as a normal dayly rate what ever that is for the parent.

i did have one parent comment on this last week saying as she is paying she will be sending them but i did state i don't owrk them but this is the only holiday i get paid for (and if she did turn up she would be told i am not working and to go home or as in most cases i will not be here!!!)

i am going to do another review with this parent and try to sort it out but ithink she was trying it on as she does every b/h and she had only sent her children to me for one day that week and think she wanted to not pay for any of the days but i was open up and ready to recive them it was her choice not to send them i get paid if they turn up or not.

i think for new parent i am goin to try to work out holiday pay but not sure how to do this pro rota sor tothing like in other jobs.

[The Juggler]

i don't work b/h and i have always charged for thesedays if the are a normal contracted day and i am not on my anual leave (christmas and boxing day and new years day are part of my anual leave which i do not charge for.)

but the others in may and august and for easter i charge for as a normal dayly rate what ever that is for the parent.

i did have one parent comment on this last week saying as she is paying she will be sending them but i did state i don't owrk them but this is the only holiday i get paid for (and if she did turn up she would be told i am not working and to go home or as in most cases i will not be here!!!)

i am going to do another review with this parent and try to sort it out but ithink she was trying it on as she does every b/h and she had only sent her children to me for one day that week and think she wanted to not pay for any of the days but i was open up and ready to recive them it was her choice not to send them i get paid if they turn up or not.

i think for new parent i am goin to try to work out holiday pay but not sure how to do this pro rota sor tothing like in other jobs.

you could always get round this by telling her you won't charge for BH anymore instead you'll just start taking 10 days paid holiday instead. See how she likes that!:D

[The Juggler]

I'd just be interested to know exactly where they get off telling us this when we are self employed. no other S/E person is dictated to about their fees/charges. OK you set your charges in line with local rates. Brian is slightly cheaper than most places offering the same service but the difference is he comes with experience, honesty (he won't overcharge or overprice or suggest added extras onto the bill), integrity and pride in his work.

they - NCMA didn't consult us about the changes on the contract and that makes me cross as well.

I must admit I am seriously considering switching to MM next year

I fully support the NCMA and although I don't feel I'm being told to do this I feel we've been put in a very difficult position with parents due to the wording on the new contracts. It raises questions to the parents about whether we should be charging them. For those who's only paid holiday is the BH I don't think this is fair.

[cuffleygirl]

Surely its simple - if you are not prepared to work it then don't charge as you are not available to work! If you are then you negotiate a rate which may or may not be more than your regular rate!

[wendywu]

Yes how does a £100. per hour sound to you. :laughing:

I may look at MM now as my membership and insurance runs out next month :panic:

[Mouse]

From when I started minding years ago my contracts have always said that I don't generally work bank holidays, but that if I do I will charge double fee. If the child doesn't attend, normal fee will be charged.
I've never had any problems with it & have never worked a BH.

Can NCMA TELL us that this is what we have to do, or is it just a recommendation?

[oldtimer]

I am presently charging for 4 weeks holiday and all bank holidays, although I do not work them.

Parents are always surprised when they are presented with this scenario of paid holidays and bank holidays so here is what I will be implementing with all new contracts.

To make the maths easier, I will use a rate of £50 per day, and will base it on working a full 5 day week.

So that is 50 x 5 x 52 = 13,000 per annum. (£ 250 pw)

I will inform parents that I will be taking 7 weeks UNPAID holiday every year (28 days is minimum for salaried worker plus bank holidays) which will include all bank holidays.

To keep this income of 13,000, I will need 13000 / 45 (weeks) = £ 288.89 wk or 57.78 per day, which will be rounded up to £ 58.00 per day or a 16% increase.

If I decide to take 8 weeks "UNPAID" holidays and bank holidays then the rate goes up to £59.00 per day or an 18% increase.

If all CM'S increased their prices by 16% or 18% and followed this structure then there would be no further complaints from prospective parents, they will all be happy not to be paying for holidays etc. and we will all be happy by safeguarding our income.

We are all small businesses, and should act accordingly. Set out our terms and conditions in a clear and concise manner, and see what pricing structure the market will bear.

[peanuts]

i tell parents that i am available for bank holidays, but they know i am double time, so i never normally have to work any, think so far have only had to work good friday once.

[Alz]

Im new to it all and my BH/holidays etc may change at review, but I am saying I am available to work BH at time and a half, that would be regardless of "normal" contracted hours...think that's right!?!?!?

[Pipsqueak]

If all CM'S increased their prices by 16% or 18% and followed this structure then there would be no further complaints from prospective parents, they will all be happy not to be paying for holidays etc. and we will all be happy by safeguarding our income.

We are all small businesses, and should act accordingly. Set out our terms and conditions in a clear and concise manner, and see what pricing structure the market will bear.

First of all i like the way you have set it out:clapping:

the last two paragraphs jumped out at me - bless you for thinking that the parents won't complain - you could charge them a £1 and hour with everything thrown in and you will still get parents complaining or wanting more more more. lol

The new parent i signed last night thinks i am 'raking it in' because she was doing the maths for her 3 children in the summer holidays. I basically told her it was her choice to send them to me etc.

We all know we are small businesses and the sooner parents actually start understanding that - whoo hoo.
My conditions, terms, pricing structure couldn't be more clear (as is my friends who is an ex-accountant) and parents still, quibble, gripe, haggle, forget etc....

Great thinking though:thumbsup:

[Trouble]

mine think everything is free:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

and that we do it for love :panic:

[Trouble]

and breeze in in the morning like they have paid when they :censored: well havent:angry:

[Pipsqueak]

and that we do it for love :panic:

we don't????:eek:

darn I knew there was something I was doing wrong:D

[Mouse]

I love the idea of putting my fees up by 18% to stop parents complaining :laughing: :laughing:

[oldtimer]

pipsqeak, mouse....stop teasing me ...............lol

of course they will moan about prices, they always do.....
they are the ones who do not get through the interview process !!!

if they begin by complaining or want to start bargaining when I tell them about my charges, I give them one chance to see the error of their views. If, after the explanation of my charges (what good value I am and what a bargain they are getting) they still want to bargain me down, then I am afraid that they will not be leaving their child with me.

My criteria at the interview are as follows (in this order)
1. Have to like the child
2. Have to like the parents
3. Parents have to buy into my way of looking after their child - I am the professional
4. They have be available, to fill the spaces that I have open
5. They have to agree to my charges and payment of these charges in advance

as the meerkat says 'seemple'

I am the business owner, I run my business to suit ME.

In turn, I do not tell Sainsbury's, Tesco's, British Gas etc how to run their business or how much I am prepared for their goods/services. If their prices/methods do not suit me, I go elsewhere.

If you start off 'on the right foot', you will eliminate all those parents who are condescending enough to tell you how to run your CM business, who think that they are in control, who think that they are doing you a favour by paying you for a service.

In short they will give you respect and if they do not, if they 'slip back', then you can always give notice and get somebody who does respect you.
:)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

pipsqeak, mouse....stop teasing me ...............lol

of course they will moan about prices, they always do.....
they are the ones who do not get through the interview process !!!

if they begin by complaining or want to start bargaining when I tell them about my charges, I give them one chance to see the error of their views. If, after the explanation of my charges (what good value I am and what a bargain they are getting) they still want to bargain me down, then I am afraid that they will not be leaving their child with me.

My criteria at the interview are as follows (in this order)
1. Have to like the child
2. Have to like the parents
3. Parents have to buy into my way of looking after their child - I am the professional
4. They have be available, to fill the spaces that I have open
5. They have to agree to my charges and payment of these charges in advance

as the meerkat says 'seemple'

I am the business owner, I run my business to suit ME.

In turn, I do not tell Sainsbury's, Tesco's, British Gas etc how to run their business or how much I am prepared for their goods/services. If their prices/methods do not suit me, I go elsewhere.

If you start off 'on the right foot', you will eliminate all those parents who are condescending enough to tell you how to run your CM business, who think that they are in control, who think that they are doing you a favour by paying you for a service.

In short they will give you respect and if they do not, if they 'slip back', then you can always give notice and get somebody who does respect you.
:)

I agree with you thoughts but would never give notice if I found the parents to be a pain. After all children are not like a tin of soup that you can return because you don't like the taste. They need nuturing and the ones who need out support.

[Mouse]

Sorry about the teasing ;)

I have great respect from my parents & over the years have had very few problems. The key to it for me has always been to make everything very clear from the begining, to remain businesslike at all times & to be consistent with how I run my business. I am the one who sets the terms for my business, not the parents, but that doesn't mean I don't take their views into account. I think there always needs to be a bit of give & take.

That's worked for me & I prefer that approach to a "tow the line or you're out" approach!

[Pudding Girl]

I agree with you thoughts but would never give notice if I found the parents to be a pain. After all children are not like a tin of soup that you can return because you don't like the taste. They need nuturing and the ones who need out support.


But IME if there's a breakdown in the relationship with parents then it is best to part for the benefits of everyone, children included. Sorry but to me that's just like saying people should stay in a bad marriage, for the sake of the children... which is complete tosh imo.

But that's another thread! Can't ahve another thread about a thread about a thread!!

Bank hols - in Scotland it totally confuses me as the only holiday that is really bothered about (apart from the xmas ones) is Jan 2nd and May Day. No thers seem to be observed, the kids even go back to school after Easter on what (to me as English!) is a Bank Hol.

I therefore work them all apart from above and I take Good Friday off too, and I don't charge for them, but when it's one observed elsewhere I don't charge extra.

Maybe someone else in Scotland will come along and explain it better than I!

[zippy]

i charge double for attendence, nothing if they dont, i like them off

[BubbleBobble]

I do like Oldtimer's way of working out the figures but I must point this out - the actual minimum holiday for employees in this country is 5.6 weeks x whatever hours or days that you do. Employers can include the 8 bank holidays in that 5.6 weeks (plenty do, mine included) So, the minimum holiday is actually 4 weeks (or 20 days) plus the bank holidays for full timers. Not 28 days plus the bank hols. 28 days in TOTAL. I work in payroll & accounts - cannot WAIT to get out! Also can't wait to give myself 7 weeks holiday a year - whoopee!!

[Madminder]

A childminder from Portsmouth brought this to my attention way back in May so it was brought up as an issue at the South East RPF in June. Very few childminders were aware of it as not many had used the new contracts yet but none were happy about the changes, what a surprise! It was fed back to the NPF meeting but nothing more has been heard.

On Saturday I attended the NCMA AGM in London and this subject was brought up several times and I have asked for it to be on the agenda for the NPF meeting on October 17th so hopefully we will get some answers then. It was made clear on Saturday to senior NCMA staff, directors and board members that we are:

Not happy to be dictated to in this way or to have parents told that we should not be charging;
Not happy that we were not consulted about the change before it was made;
Not happy with the inconsistency of being told we cannot charge for BHs if we are not prepared to work but also being told that we should negotiate 2 weeks paid holiday!


Will pass on any information I get as soon as I can.

[The Juggler]

A childminder from Portsmouth brought this to my attention way back in May so it was brought up as an issue at the South East RPF in June. Very few childminders were aware of it as not many had used the new contracts yet but none were happy about the changes, what a surprise! It was fed back to the NPF meeting but nothing more has been heard.

On Saturday I attended the NCMA AGM in London and this subject was brought up several times and I have asked for it to be on the agenda for the NPF meeting on October 17th so hopefully we will get some answers then. It was made clear on Saturday to senior NCMA staff, directors and board members that we are:

Not happy to be dictated to in this way or to have parents told that we should not be charging;
Not happy that we were not consulted about the change before it was made;
Not happy with the inconsistency of being told we cannot charge for BHs if we are not prepared to work but also being told that we should negotiate 2 weeks paid holiday!


Will pass on any information I get as soon as I can.


Brilliant. thanks for this. keep us posted.

[mississmoomoo]

On the ICP course we were told that we should charge for BH. I am charging for BH and I am available for all BH except in the xmas period, where I do not charge anything as I am not available. However if they do decide to use my service it will be charged at double time which is stated in the contract.