View Full Version : Just got given notice.
legtc01
19-08-2009, 09:04 PM
Just got given my notice "out of principal", Im a parent of 1 and as I could not pay cm her holidays up front instead of weekly as I normally did, she decided to give notice. It wasnt in my contract that I had to do this and was told that I am the only parent who has a problem with it.
Would you say this is normal? Has anyone else had a problem like this?
Dont mind that I have been given notice, its just how and why...all this because she wants spending money for her holidays.x
sorry but can't help you as we don't charge for our holidays i am sure some one will come along who can help you
cathy
Ripeberry
20-08-2009, 08:18 AM
Sorry, you're having problems with your CM. But it is unusual that she is charging for HER holidays. Do you mean that you have to pay a retainer? Then that would normally be 50% of usual charge, just to keep the space open.
Has she just started asking you for 4 weeks in one go? Very difficult if you yourself only get paid weekly, the other parents may not have a problem if they are monthly paid.
Is there anyway she can comprimise, pay two weeks at a time?
Pipsqueak
20-08-2009, 08:23 AM
i personally don't charge for my holidays but as you are aware each childminder is different.
I would say though that this sounds a bit inflexible of the childminder (it sounds like she was depending upon this money for her hols) BUT I would also say that if its not in your contract and if it wasn't discussed/agreed I would think she may not be able to do this or at the least its wrong.
I hope your notice period doesn't include the cm's holidays either
rickysmiths
20-08-2009, 08:40 AM
I'm sorry to hear you have been given notice for such a reason.
I charge for 5 weeks holidays a year but I don't expect a parent to pay me an differently because it is the holidays!
If they pay Monthly or Weekly that continues. If they are a weekly payer and I am on holiday for 2 weeks then the parent will often give me a post dated cheque or we come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. I certainly do not expect payments that are not due to cover my 'pocket money!'
I would go as far to say that if this is the only reason for termination and nothing is stated in your contract about paying in this way over a holiday period, you may not have to pay for the notice period if you are not using the cm. It also sounds as if you will be better off with another cm.
Zoomie
20-08-2009, 09:09 AM
hiya
it sounds a bit strange that CM is giving notice for the reasons you have stated, perhaps it is just an excuse cos something else has come along ?
if you can't negotiate with CM, good luck for finding another :)
ZoeAlli
20-08-2009, 09:14 AM
I am sorry to hear that you have been given notice by your cm. I have four weeks holiday a year and if parents holidays coincide with mine they pay a retainer fee (50% of normal fee). My parents all pay a month in advance (and normally by the 1st of the month), so generally I don't have this problem. This month my holiday falls over the start of next month, however I would not expect the parents to pay early because I chose to have my holiday at this time. When I return from holiday I will give them the bill for next month and expect payment promptly!!
If your contract with the cm states that you pay weekly and there is no exception for when she is on holiday, then I would say that she is in breach of her contract as she cannot give you notice on the basis that you cannot pay her two weeks (or however long it is she is on holiday) in advance. This is not a valid reason to give you notice. If you did not pay her on time, or there was a communication problem and she had proof of this then fair enough but she would need to state these as reason! You also need to check your contract as most cm's will not allow notice to be taken whislt they are on holiday- therefore notice should begin when she returns from holiday!
If you are usure, you could contact your local families information service as they should be able to help you further.
I hope you get some more advice- see what others say- I have not been in this situation, so the advice given above is only what I would expect with my parents!!
Hope you get sorted soon!:)
HELEN10
20-08-2009, 10:04 AM
Sorry to hear you have been given notice does not seem fair at all. All i can say is lucky childminders who can actually get holiday pay out of parents, that baffles me as we are all self employed so no work no pay!!!
HELEN10
ORKSIE
20-08-2009, 10:10 AM
I charge half for my holidays and parents hols.
It does seem unfair that you have been given notice tho.
Blaze
20-08-2009, 11:35 AM
The NCMA (National Childminding Association) recommends that Childminders get paid for their holidays - however many don't. It is also recommended that Childminders arrange payments in advance ...however this doesn't appear to be the case in this instance, so it does seem unfair that you have been given notice. I can appreciate a childminder not being paid on time & this causing problems re her bills/ holiday money etc, but as I said this doesn't seem to be the case here & if arrangements were not in the contract/signed for policies/procedures, or even discussed with you then I fail to see why you have been given notice - for in my mind whatis at worse something v. minor / but to me seems to be either a misunderstanding (one of those things) or the Childminders fault for not fully explaining to you & putiing in writing/explaining how she runs her business. Without being able to see the exact wording of the contract / letter of notice it is hard to say whether or not notice monies are indeed owed. Personally I would use her services for the notice period & then move on without looking back!
legtc01
21-08-2009, 03:46 PM
Hi everyone, thank you sooooo much for your replies. We did have a very good relationship and I have explained to her in the past that how I organise my money is my monthly wage goes on housebills etc and then my weekly tax credits etc goes on my rent and paying her and any other weekly bits eg food shopping. My daughter had been with her since 6 months old and is now nearly 3. We agreed that I would pay her weekly as that was when i got my tax credits and this is in my contract. When I found out that she wanted her FULL holiday pay for the 2 weeks she is away I told her that I wouldnt be able to pay this as I would end up being behind in my rent, which I was not prepared to do just to give her her spends on her holiday. I never said I was not going to pay her, just that I wasnt able to pay her 2 weeks pay up front. I pay her half pay in the school holidays, so had been paying that for the past 4 weeks, she very cheekily (in my opinion) said how could I end up behind in rent if I have been paying the past 4 weeks at half rate?
To cut out the boring bits of the story, I went to her house last Wednesday (her usual pay day) to discuss it face to face, and after a long argument and me refusing to pay the 2 weeks up front the following week, she said that "out of principal" she would have to give me 4 weeks notice, she said that she didnt want to, but as I wasnt able to pay her her holidays up front (which is not in my contract to do so) then she had no other option. Cheeky so n so then asked if I was going to pay her her holidays and also pay her the notice. Ive decided Im not sending my daughter back there. I sort of new that the notice was coming and before I went to see her Id already seen another cm, who was w illing to take my daughter and was closer to work, but unfortunatley not suitable as I did not like the school where she would have to go, but at least I still have that as a back up.
My daughter starts nursery school in september and I have managed to change my hours to mornings and will be taking her to a before school club, drop her off in the morning and then be able to pick her up by 11.45. So I think its worked out good for me so far.:clapping:
Just wondered if I am obliged to pay her, and as someone has stated that this is not a valid reason for giving notice, what could I do about it??
Twinkles
21-08-2009, 03:55 PM
I think you need to start by asking her for the notice in writing and go from there.
i'd tell her CM that you need notice in writing :thumbsup:
i am not sure, personally i think that it would be advisable to write her a letter and explain the issues and wait for a reply, i would also seek advice from the ncma ( i know you are not a member but could offer some advice)
Also reread your contract because i think that she may have broken it, if not then its not good practice at all whatever her reasons are.... I would write the letter and get advice...... i know in my practice i would believe that it si breach of contract on her side...
Please someone correct me if i am wrong....
good luck, sound like you and your lo are going to be much happpier.
xx
legtc01
21-08-2009, 04:06 PM
I dont have a copy of the termination letter, she never gave me one, all it said in it is that I am giving you notice, terminating your contract bla bla, and that its my responsiblity and not hers to inform the tax credit people. I think Ill request a copy for when she comes back.
If it turns out that she has breached her contract, what can I do about it? She wont get struck off the register will she? I certainly wouldnt want that to happen, I just want her to know that she cant go round terminating peoples contract just because I said no to giving her her spending money and all the other parents (apparently) didnt have a problem with it and I was the only one that did.
Ta :-)
I wouldnt personally wait til she get backs, i would write a letter and date it from the date she said and make sure its on her mat when she gets back, with an enverlope each week with a cheque for the week, that way you only have two weeks from when she gets back....
i dont think she would get stuck off but she would wouldnt try it again with other parents.....
it is certainlu not good practice which ofsted require...
good luck and enjoy your time with lo xx
~Chelle~
21-08-2009, 04:26 PM
Has she ever asked for money up front before? You have been with her for 2 and half years so I was just wondering if it was something she has introduced off her own back.
I feel that she was being rude and totally unprofessional, IMO. It is not her place to say " how could I end up behind in rent if I have been paying the past 4 weeks at half rate it has nothing to do with her.
If she has asked for money up front to cover her holidays and has never done this before, then she is the one in breach of her contract. If she has done this, then I would speak to citizens advice about where you stand on paying her the 4 weeks notice. I know that if I was you, my feeling would be that she wouldnt be getting a penny.
Ofsted will not get involved in a contract dispute over pay. There is no chance that she will be struck off the register for this so you need not worry about that.
She HAS to give you a letter of termination, it is no good her just showing you one, you need a copy for your own records. I would ask her for a copy asap. Also make sure that you have a copy of your contract, as you will need this for future reference.
Get onto the CAB asap, hope you get the situation sorted out x
peanuts
21-08-2009, 04:28 PM
if you normally pay weekly you should not have to pay for the 2nd week up front as long as you have given her a cheque post dated.
when i am on my holidays i dont expect parents to pay me as they need to find alternative childcare. when you are on holiday the childminder is still available but if they are on holiday as long as they get it when due.
it looks like she had budgeted for getting her money for her spending money.
OrlandoBelle
21-08-2009, 04:51 PM
The childminder MUST give you notice in writing. That means you must have your own copy. Also, she cannot give you notice in a period of holidays whether its yours or hers. Also if it is stated in your contract that you are to pay her weekly then thats it. She can't go back on it and suddenly change her rules to suit herself and her holiday spending money. If it is an NCMA contract, I would re-read the small print on the back of the pages.
It definately sounds to me like she is in breach of contract and therefore would not pay her for the notice period. If she argues that you are in breach of contract for not paying it, then you can throw it back in her face that actually SHE was in breach and you will not be paying the notice period "out of principle"!! LOL. If she went to an NCMA solicitor she wouldn't have a leg to stand on as far as I can see.
Good luck in your search for a new childminder. I know of a space going around here ;) LOL.
zillervalley
21-08-2009, 05:56 PM
sorry you are having problems, imdo hope it van be resolved
ziller
legtc01
21-08-2009, 06:00 PM
After she asked me if I was still going to pay her, I was that angry and upset over the situation that I just said I didnt know, I still have a copy of the contract, and when i was at her house I did ask her to show me where it says in the contract that I have to pay this way as it did not say it in mine, she said that it doesnt say but that she had the same problem last year and my step dad brought her holiday pay round...although I do not recall this.
I will definatley get a copy of the notice when she comes back off holiday. After reading alot of other posts on here regarding holidays, food and contracts, sounds like mine just did what she wanted, but you never know what other cm's and parents do until you talk to them, I honestly presumed that all cm's did the same as what mine did as regards to food, holiday pay etc, but obviously this isnt the case. :-)
Daftbat
21-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Your cm is defintiely acting out of order in my opinion. She has no legal right to demand payment other than the way stipulated in your contract. She can give notice for whatever reason she likes so long as the required notice period is adhered to - not including holiday time by the way.
If you have definitely decided to make other arrangements then i would give notice yourself in writing to begin when she is back from hols. You will be required to pay the notice period but only in accordance with the contract. If you can prove she has broken the contract then you wouldn't be legally obliged to give the full notice period, or pay for it.
Hope you get things sorted ok, the NCMA can gfive advice too if you want it.
nicole_kirsty
21-08-2009, 08:03 PM
I have 2 school aged children come to me and the mum in single getting tax credits. She pays me on a wednesday weekly (normally i have month in advance) and she pays me for that week ie mon tues in arrears and wed thurs fri in advance!Luckly is working ok and i quite like knowing i have a bit coming in each week. I also DONT charge for my holiday but charge half fee's for their holidays (4weeks)
If you need a childminder there is a section on this forum you could post an ad in and see if someone is in your area with spaces!
Good luck and i hope you get it all sorted ok
Nic x
buildingblocks
21-08-2009, 08:31 PM
if you normally pay weekly you should not have to pay for the 2nd week up front as long as you have given her a cheque post dated.
when i am on my holidays i dont expect parents to pay me as they need to find alternative childcare. when you are on holiday the childminder is still available but if they are on holiday as long as they get it when due.
it looks like she had budgeted for getting her money for her spending money.
Just out of interest as far as I know if a post dated cheque had been given and she had banked it at the same time as the normal one then the bank would have processed it as well.
As has been said if your contract states weekly in arrears/weekly in advance then you are under no obligation to pay it until the due date.
buildingblocks
21-08-2009, 08:33 PM
I dont have a copy of the termination letter, she never gave me one, all it said in it is that I am giving you notice, terminating your contract bla bla, and that its my responsiblity and not hers to inform the tax credit people. I think Ill request a copy for when she comes back.
If it turns out that she has breached her contract, what can I do about it? She wont get struck off the register will she? I certainly wouldnt want that to happen, I just want her to know that she cant go round terminating peoples contract just because I said no to giving her her spending money and all the other parents (apparently) didnt have a problem with it and I was the only one that did.
Ta :-)
You should have been given a letter of notice and you need to ask for a copy for your records.
AS someone already said contact the NCMA they are their for parents as well as childminders.
yes thats corrcts the bank do not "do" post dated cheques, if it's banked earlier it will be processed. :thumbsup:
legtc01
13-09-2009, 08:06 PM
hi everyone, cm posted notice in writing on her return from holiday stating she has sought legal advice and if I dont pay her then she would put in a claim through the small claims (although I know this is more hassle than its worth and also been told in the past that you can only claim over a certain amount)
Anyway decided to be amicable and send my daughter until notice is finished, managed to change my hours from work so i can pick her up half day at nursery which is FAB!
Also started the cm course myself and will definatley be making sure my policies and procedures will be water tight so that my future parents dont have the same problems I had. So no doubt you will see lots of posts on here by me in the future asking everyone for advice. Its only week one, but will have completed my pre-reg, food hygiene and first aid by the end of october which is a good start i suppose. GO ME lol :-)
margimum
13-09-2009, 08:20 PM
So pleased to know you've not been put off the profession!!
You will be made to feel very welcome on here and will see what a great bunch childminders really are :clapping:
nic76
13-09-2009, 08:26 PM
i dont think she would have a leg to stand on if her contracts dont state what she is asking. i honestly wouldnt pay her or stay for the 4 week notice.
TheBTeam
13-09-2009, 08:32 PM
Ah well something good has come out of it then, you will gain a worthwhile and rewarding career and know what it is like from both sides of the fence!:)
The Juggler
14-09-2009, 01:11 PM
I'm sorry to hear you have been given notice for such a reason.
I charge for 5 weeks holidays a year but I don't expect a parent to pay me an differently because it is the holidays!
If they pay Monthly or Weekly that continues. If they are a weekly payer and I am on holiday for 2 weeks then the parent will often give me a post dated cheque or we come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. I certainly do not expect payments that are not due to cover my 'pocket money!'
I would go as far to say that if this is the only reason for termination and nothing is stated in your contract about paying in this way over a holiday period, you may not have to pay for the notice period if you are not using the cm. It also sounds as if you will be better off with another cm.
I totally agree.
Also, all if she still wants weekly money whilst you are away, you could offer to transfer it direct to her bank account that way she can withdraw it whilst she is abroad or anywhere in the country. Or give her a cheque later this week which she can pay in and will clear on the day she normally would be paid. However personally, unless she explained this, this seems unfair. Maybe check her fees policy to be sure it doesn't state this but it sounds unlikely.
Good luck
Chatterbox Childcare
14-09-2009, 01:29 PM
I dont have a copy of the termination letter, she never gave me one, all it said in it is that I am giving you notice, terminating your contract bla bla, and that its my responsiblity and not hers to inform the tax credit people. I think Ill request a copy for when she comes back.
If it turns out that she has breached her contract, what can I do about it? She wont get struck off the register will she? I certainly wouldnt want that to happen, I just want her to know that she cant go round terminating peoples contract just because I said no to giving her her spending money and all the other parents (apparently) didnt have a problem with it and I was the only one that did.
Ta :-)
Childminders can terminate their contracts anytime as can parents. Unfortunately if you do not send you DD back you will have to pay the holidays and 4 weeks notice as notice period does not include holidays.
Just pay her the 2 weeks holiday as agreed and send you DD back and then finish - it is a shame that your DD wouldn't carry on going because the adults cannot sort out their differences.