Rising 5's

[HELEN10]

Hi does anyone know when you can class a child who is starting school in September (4yrs old) as a rising 5 for the purpose of taking on another under 5, would it be when he/she left nursery in July or do you have to wait until they actually start school in September?

Therefore in the seven weeks summer hols am i minding an under 5 or a rising 5??

Thanks, HELEN10

[rickysmiths]

As soon as they are attending 10 sessions at school they are counted as over five for the purpose of your numbers.

Therefore if they have a long run in as they do at our local primaries the children here can not be counted as over five until they are attending full time after half term.

If you have an overlap issue you can always apply for a variation to cover a few weeks.

[MelBeck]

As i found out today they are scraping the rising 5's (another childminder has her inspection and it was on her paperwork):( it now works that they are 5 until the 31st august after their 5th birthday which makes it really hard to take on another child if you have one that is born at the begining of the school term(sept -dec).:eek:
sorry this isn't better news but this is what Ofsted have on the paperwork for inspections

[miffy]

As i found out today they are scraping the rising 5's (another childminder has her inspection and it was on her paperwork):( it now works that they are 5 until the 31st august after their 5th birthday which makes it really hard to take on another child if you have one that is born at the begining of the school term(sept -dec).:eek:
sorry this isn't better news but this is what Ofsted have on the paperwork for inspections

Not heard this before!

What do you mean "Ofsted have on the paperwork for inspections"?

Miffy xx

[Daftbat]

As i found out today they are scraping the rising 5's (another childminder has her inspection and it was on her paperwork):( it now works that they are 5 until the 31st august after their 5th birthday which makes it really hard to take on another child if you have one that is born at the begining of the school term(sept -dec).:eek:
sorry this isn't better news but this is what Ofsted have on the paperwork for inspections

Are you saying they are not classed as a five year old until they are nearly 6?!! Or are we talking about the fact that they are still part of the EYFS until 31st Aug after 5th birthday which is what i understand. This doesn't interfere with taking on under fives.

[sarah707]

As i found out today they are scraping the rising 5's (another childminder has her inspection and it was on her paperwork):( it now works that they are 5 until the 31st august after their 5th birthday which makes it really hard to take on another child if you have one that is born at the begining of the school term(sept -dec).:eek:
sorry this isn't better news but this is what Ofsted have on the paperwork for inspections

The Eyfs has always said that in the statutory requirements!

It's just that when children go into 10 sessions a week, full time school we can, for the purposes of our ratios, class them as 5.

It makes no difference to whether they are an early years age child or whether we need to use Eyfs for their learning and development. It is simply a ratios issue.

If an inspector is saying differently to someone you know, they need to check it out carefully with Ofsted - 08456 404040 or enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk.

Both these fully understand this rule as it has come straight from the Directorate and had to be confirmed when the Eyfs made it so complicated to understand... unless of course it has changed and they have not told anyone. :rolleyes:

However, as far as Ofsted are advising us, there are no changes due to this rule.

If there are changes to something this serious, we would hope we would be informed via the Ofsted website, on the Ofsted newsletter and be mailed to us via our local authorities :D

[Daddy Day Care]

I asked my DO about rising 5's yesterday because I read somehwere on here that minded children doing 10 sessions wont be classed in our under 5 ratios, but that our own children would still be classed as an under 5.

She told me that, that was wrong and that our own children would also be classed as a 5 year and wouldnt take a space up.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I know this one and I think Mel has the matter slightly confused.

To answer Helen - children are classed as 5 once they are attending school for 10 sessions per week BUT they are still in your Early Years Register numbers.

therefore you need to ask for a variation sentence on your certificate allowing you to have more in the EY age group (this is now standard on all certificates and I think what Mel is referring to)

We still will have under 5's and over 5's - just the understanding of it.

Is that as clear as mud! :laughing:

[MissTinkerbell]

[QUOTE=DebbieS26;486026]therefore you need to ask for a variation sentence on your certificate allowing you to have more in the EY age group (this is now standard on all certificates and I think what Mel is referring to)

:QUOTE]

I have this sentence on my certificate which I received last week after applying for a variation for a 'rising 5' who starts school in September. It states that for the purpose of my ratios an early years child can be classed as an over 5 once they are in full-time school. The variation allows me to have 4 in this age group (including my own 2) on the days that she is only attending part-time.

[MissTinkerbell]

therefore you need to ask for a variation sentence on your certificate allowing you to have more in the EY age group (this is now standard on all certificates and I think what Mel is referring to)
:

I have this sentence on my new certificate that arrived last week after applying for a variation for a little girl who starts school in Sept and she is not 4 until 28th August!! Its states that for the purposes of my ratios I can class a child in the Early Years age group as a 'rising-5' once they attend 10 sessions of school per week as long as I do not exceed my numbers. Therefore I can have 4 under 5s (including my own 2) on the days that she only attends for half a day.

[HELEN10]

Thanks for your replies. I understood it to be as you say Sarah, not to do with any registers simply for ratio purposes. I have never heard of anyone before asking for a variation on their certificate when an under 5 starts school.

HELEN10

[tigger]

Hi, my ds turned 5 in Dec and started full time education, I informed Ofsted of this in January and they sent me a new form that said may increase the number in the early years age group by the number of children in full time education, providing the maximum number is not exceeded. As I was given notice and needed to start advertising again I asked them for clarification by email as to how many under 5's I could look after and they said I could still only look after 2 as although he was in full time education they were unable to change my numbers until the 31st August following his birthday. Then in September I can increase my numbers to 3 under 5. I don't know if this helps anyone.
I'm a little bit gutted but never mind at least I know now and September isn't that far away.:(

[RainbowMum]

My DD starts full time school in sept - she is not 5 till Jan & will be early years group until next August - I wrote to Ofsted asking for my numbers on certificate to be increased to 3 in early years as she is a rising 5 - they sent out a new certificate within a week with 3 early years spaces and with immeditae effect!