A CHILDMINDER NOT WANTING TO DO EYFS

[angeldelight]

Exemption from EYFS learning goals is rejected

By Catherine Gaunt, Nursery World, 20 May 2009

A childminder from Warrington is believed to be the first person to have her application for exemption from the EYFS early learning goals turned down.
Pat Adams, a childminder for more than 20 years, said she still wanted to continue childminding and would be 'very sad' if she had to give up, but felt that she had to make a stand because she objects to the EYFS being statutory and believes it should be used only as guidance.

She said she had seriously considered giving up childminding before the EYFS was brought in last September, but with the full backing of the parents of the children she cares for had decided to apply for exemption from the EYFS learning and development requirements instead.

Mrs Adams heard that her application had been rejected in a letter from the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority two weeks ago. Her application was turned down because the evidence she provided was not considered sufficient to show that her beliefs about young children's early education were in conflict with the EYFS early learning goals.

The QCA stated, 'In your case you have not been able to demonstrate that you are unable to secure that your early years provision meets the early learning goals because it is governed by established principles relating to the learning and development of young children which cannot be reconciled with the early learning goals.'

The letter said that she should inform parents of QCA's decision.

Mrs Adams told Nursery World, 'I am not giving up childminding immediately but will continue working in the same way and will wait until my next Ofsted inspection and see what the outcome of that will be. If Ofsted downgrade me to inadequate I will be extremely upset, because I know their decision will be based on paperwork and not on the quality of my childcare.'

She said she knew of at least three other childminders with similar views to herself who would be prepared to leave the profession if they are downgraded in their Ofsted inspections.

She added, 'Parents just want someone to look after their children and know that they are safe and cared for. They don't want formal learning - they want a home-from-home environment. '

'There's too much written assessment in the EYFS,' she added. 'I'm doing all the paperwork that I feel is necessary. I'm continually observing the children, but I'd rather tell the parents than write it down. Parents tell me that they can see their child is doing well and don't need a piece of paper to tell them.'

Mrs Adams said she intended to submit another application for exemption.

The QCA confirmed that it had received three applications for exemption so far and none had been granted to date.

A spokesperson said, 'We aim to respond to providers with a decision within 12 weeks. Most decisions will take less time than this, but very complex applications may take longer.'

A DCSF spokesperson said, 'Childminders have a vital role to play, and we know they are valued by many parents for the unique type of childcare they provide. The EYFS is based on the advice of qualified early years professionals and we consulted widely on it - and it’s supported by the National Childminding Association who say the EYFS is a positive development.
'The EYFS is not about paperwork and bureaucracy it does not prescribe how anything should be recorded. The EYFS expects practitioners to observe children's progress and respond appropriately to help them to take the next steps in their development and make progress towards the early-learning goals. Observational assessment is something a good practitioner will already be doing as part of their everyday practice.'


Angel xx

[Pipsqueak]

Thank you for that Angel. Very interesting!

[Mouse]

That does make interesting reading.

I have to say, I do think there should be 2 sorts of childminder - the ones who want to provide an EYFS setting & the ones who don't.

Personally, I enjoy EYFS, but I don't understand why all children in childcare HAVE to be included. Children who stop at home with parents & don't attend any sort of childcare setting aren't subject to EYFS, so why should all children in childcare be?

I can fully understand that there should be standards that settings have to meet, but what is the advantage of having a 6 month old baby on a learning journey? Surely the standards should be based more on safety than on what the children are achieving.

I think parents should be able to chose between a childcare setting that offers EYFS and one that offers good quality childcare with the emphasis still on having fun through play, but without the assessments, planning etc. It really isn't important to a lot of parents who just want to know that their child is well looked after & has fun.

[Daftbat]

That does make interesting reading.

I have to say, I do think there should be 2 sorts of childminder - the ones who want to provide an EYFS setting & the ones who don't.

Personally, I enjoy EYFS, but I don't understand why all children in childcare HAVE to be included. Children who stop at home with parents & don't attend any sort of childcare setting aren't subject to EYFS, so why should all children in childcare be?

I can fully understand that there should be standards that settings have to meet, but what is the advantage of having a 6 month old baby on a learning journey? Surely the standards should be based more on safety than on what the children are achieving.

I think parents should be able to chose between a childcare setting that offers EYFS and one that offers good quality childcare with the emphasis still on having fun through play, but without the assessments, planning etc. It really isn't important to a lot of parents who just want to know that their child is well looked after & has fun.

I think Mouse makes some good points.

With regard to the reply this woman got from QCA i have trouble understanding what they mean, its all wrapped up in gobbledegook!

[Toothfairy]

Mmmmmm......That made interesting reading. :rolleyes:

[HomefromHome]

surely she doesnt have to give it up??? just take on the over 5's???? or am i being thick?? :o

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Sorry still cannot see what all the fuss is about.

The EYFS states that you have to do observations but it doesn't state that paperwork is involved. As long as you can tell the inspector where each child is within the areas of learning you have covered the required elements. Whether anyone can do this without written evidence is another matter

The childminder said that she would continue obs so what is her problem?

[Mouse]

Sorry still cannot see what all the fuss is about.

The EYFS states that you have to do observations but it doesn't state that paperwork is involved. As long as you can tell the inspector where each child is within the areas of learning you have covered the required elements. Whether anyone can do this without written evidence is another matter




Yes, in theory you don't have to do paperwork, but does anyone really believe that an Ofsted inspector would be very impressed if they turned up to a minder who had no paperwork other than the very basic that's required? Most of us want to do well and that inevitably means paperwork.

I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter. That's what some people want to do - look after children, but without the rigmarole that goes with it. It would still need to be regulated & standards set, but without EYFS and the need for grades etc. That's what a lot of older childminders used to do & I know several who have quit childminding over the years as they don't want to adopt the new policies & procedures. They offered fabulous childcare, but didn't want to get involved in everything that goes with it these days.

[estrelas]

thanks for that, quite interesting

[Pipsqueak]

Yes, in theory you don't have to do paperwork, but does anyone really believe that an Ofsted inspector would be very impressed if they turned up to a minder who had no paperwork other than the very basic that's required? Most of us want to do well and that inevitably means paperwork.

I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter. That's what some people want to do - look after children, but without the rigmarole that goes with it. It would still need to be regulated & standards set, but without EYFS and the need for grades etc. That's what a lot of older childminders used to do & I know several who have quit childminding over the years as they don't want to adopt the new policies & procedures. They offered fabulous childcare, but didn't want to get involved in everything that goes with it these days.


Yes but then you are going to get a two tier system - with two tier rates - and who are the parents going to go for..... the cheaper option! It will be taking the profession back over won't it. Childminders are nowt more than a day babysitter and then you have got the reputation that we are striving so hard to get away from - the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys.
I am not saying that is what all childminders have done in the past (although I know many who still do!!:rolleyes: ) but I for one have tried really hard to prove that I so much more than this.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Yes but then you are going to get a two tier system - with two tier rates - and who are the parents going to go for..... the cheaper option! It will be taking the profession back over won't it. Childminders are nowt more than a day babysitter and then you have got the reputation that we are striving so hard to get away from - the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys.
I am not saying that is what all childminders have done in the past (although I know many who still do!!:rolleyes: ) but I for one have tried really hard to prove that I so much more than this.

I thoroughly agree. If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it. As I have previously said I spend 10 minutes per month per child. That is hardly time consuming.

I think that there are a lot of childminders out there who don't understand the EYFS and they need to go to their DO and ask for help.

[huggableshelly]

i like the EYFS

i think though this is because I've always cared for preschoolers so birth to 3 matters was never part of my routine then every child matters slotted in but most was covered in school

now i have a 2 year old who is my guide through the EYFS so by the time i take on another under 5 i'll have a better idea on how i want to record information

those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ......... just like me ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either.

[Playmate]

Yes but then you are going to get a two tier system - with two tier rates - and who are the parents going to go for..... the cheaper option! It will be taking the profession back over won't it. Childminders are nowt more than a day babysitter and then you have got the reputation that we are striving so hard to get away from - the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys.
I am not saying that is what all childminders have done in the past (although I know many who still do!!:rolleyes: ) but I for one have tried really hard to prove that I so much more than this.

just what I was thinking!
I don't agree with all of the EYFS, but I wouldn't be brave enough to make a stand.my hat goes off to her :laughing:

[Mouse]

Don't get me wrong, I really like EYFS and find it quite straight forward now that I've got it all sorted out.

But when I signed up to be a childminder there was none of this. Many childminders didn't register to deliver EYFS, Birth to Three, or whatever. If they don't want to do that, what option have they got other than to leave the profession? Personally I'm all for it, but not everyone is. Why do you think there are so many unregistered childcarers (I won't call them childminders) popping up?

Maybe I don't know what the answer is, but I think it's wrong that we're all made to do this.

[Pipsqueak]

Don't get me wrong, I really like EYFS and find it quite straight forward now that I've got it all sorted out.

But when I signed up to be a childminder there was none of this. Many childminders didn't register to deliver EYFS, Birth to Three, or whatever. If they don't want to do that, what option have they got other than to leave the profession? Personally I'm all for it, but not everyone is. Why do you think there are so many unregistered childcarers (I won't call them childminders) popping up?

Maybe I don't know what the answer is, but I think it's wrong that we're all made to do this.

Sorry Mouse (not trying to be argumentative) but when I signed up - there was none of this either and that is why a couple of years later I gave up - there was no support, help, guidance, no professionalism, no respect.
Jobs evolve - for better or worse and, like many of you there are aspects of the EYFS that I disagree with too but this really is a step in the right direction

[PixiePetal]

As I have been registered for some time, EYFS has been introduced when I had a really good reputation (built up over time) good references from parents, photos of children doing all sorts of activities and everyone was happy.

I am not totally against it - much is what I have been doing, just not writing and analising their every move.

Minding and caring for the children is such a natural thing for me (was a nanny first at 17) that I feel I am compromising my naturalness (is that a real word!?) for the EYFS.

I am happy that there are more formal routes to go down with safeguarding and general safety but common sense and keeping it real go a long way.

[Mouse]

Sorry Mouse (not trying to be argumentative)


lol! Nothing argumentative about it! We all have our own opinions, and this just happens to be mine :rolleyes:

Don't forget that most of the people on here are here because they take their job seriously, want to do well and want to do everything as it should be done. They accept EYFS as being part of their job & work with it (whether they like it or not). But there are lots of childminders out there who would just like to get on with the job of looking after children without having to work to a particular framework. It might only take '10 minutes per child' once your paperwork is in place, but I bet it took an awful lot longer to get it there.

Yes, working to a framework makes us a lot more professional, but can you honestly say that the children are better off now that we have EYFS than they were before? I haven't changed a great deal about the way I work, so I don't feel the children have benefitted at all. All the differences are in the way I record things, not in the way I look after the children.

As I said, just my opinion!

[Trouble]

i still dont understand most of it but hey i dont care:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

[Pipsqueak]

i still dont understand most of it but hey i dont care:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

atta girl:D :laughing:

[Trouble]

atta girl:D :laughing:

:D :D :D :group hug:

[Pipsqueak]

:D :D :D :group hug:

still well and truly proud to be in that sand aren't you hun:laughing: :laughing:

[Andrea08]

hi sorry just coming into this thread,,

may i say that most cm's that dont understand or want to do the EYFS are the cm's that are not members of this forum or have a support in their LA

if each and every one of us were left on our own to understand and deliver EYFS how would you feel?

if you were not accredited and not using the foundation stage framework (as was i) and going by the birth to 3 framwork and suddenly told "not b4 but ON sept 08" you have to do EYFS :eek: what a fright that would be.

i have some support from my LA but still felt the need to seek help hence sarah found me wondering and i joined this forum for support ,,

so for thoes who have no support i understand why they feel as they do and are against EYFS and their LA has no understanding of change management.

we must try and put ourselves in the shoes of the cm's who dont have support, and try to understand what they must be feeling and trying to comply with.

xxxxxxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

lol! Nothing argumentative about it! We all have our own opinions, and this just happens to be mine :rolleyes:

Don't forget that most of the people on here are here because they take their job seriously, want to do well and want to do everything as it should be done. They accept EYFS as being part of their job & work with it (whether they like it or not). But there are lots of childminders out there who would just like to get on with the job of looking after children without having to work to a particular framework. It might only take '10 minutes per child' once your paperwork is in place, but I bet it took an awful lot longer to get it there.

Yes, working to a framework makes us a lot more professional, but can you honestly say that the children are better off now that we have EYFS than they were before? I haven't changed a great deal about the way I work, so I don't feel the children have benefitted at all. All the differences are in the way I record things, not in the way I look after the children.

As I said, just my opinion!

It did take me a while to do it but it was worth it. When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course of 16 hours over 8 weeks which was in my time but hopefully it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS? You reap what you sow.

I think that the EYFS is about what we can do for the child development and not what is has created extra for us. By introducing the EYFS it should ensure that every child gets the chance to develop and it is through play after all.

I hope that the childminders who are struggling ask for help. Old dogs can be taught new tricks.

[Mouse]

It did take me a while to do it but it was worth it. When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course of 16 hours over 8 weeks which was in my time but hopefully it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS? You reap what you sow.

I think that the EYFS is about what we can do for the child development and not what is has created extra for us. By introducing the EYFS it should ensure that every child gets the chance to develop and it is through play after all.

I hope that the childminders who are struggling ask for help. Old dogs can be taught new tricks.



You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.
You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.

[angeldelight]

I am really enjoing reading this debate

Really interesing views here

Angel xx

[Pipsqueak]

You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.
You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.


I agree with you Mouse that sadly in some areas there isn't the training or support that there should be. We are extremely lucky in my area that we have TONS of support and training on offer - IF you can be bothered to take it up. Out of 25 EYFS training sessions (some of them 3 week courses) offered since July 08, out of 165 childminders in the area - only 24 childminders attended 4 or more sessions. The CDO's constantly send out letters to all childminders reminding them how and where they can get support and they (the CDO's) are available to come out to the minders if they can't get to the training sessions. The take up is minimal.

In my experience - out of the 25 or so minders on 'my patch' (I am a support/vacancy minder) - I would say that 15 or so of them have not even opened their EYFS packs - I have resorted to asking them when they ask me questions - have you looked at your pack.... its on page xxx - the answer that I get back from most of them???? No its still in its wrapper, I don't understand this EY thingy.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: So in essence - there really is no helping people is there. I arranged to go and see one such lady - who rung me in the morning and told me not to bother as she has already had help from her friend (who recently received and inadequate 1) and she doesn't really want to know any more.

I appreciate that there are minders out there who WANT to do a good job and they are perhaps not lucky enough to even have had access to this wonderful forum.

[Cammie Doodle]

Ah Bless our Poor Sisters.
Good Luck at Hospital, I had to wear B/P monitor for 24 hrs, when they read print out they asked waht had I been doing at 3.45:panic: I suddenly realised it was all the kids had come in from school lol My B/B must of shot up and machine recorded it lol
Let me know how it goes, be thinking of you.

[angeldelight]

Ah Bless our Poor Sisters.
Good Luck at Hospital, I had to wear B/P monitor for 24 hrs, when they read print out they asked waht had I been doing at 3.45:panic: I suddenly realised it was all the kids had come in from school lol My B/B must of shot up and machine recorded it lol
Let me know how it goes, be thinking of you.

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

[estrelas]

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

:laughing:

Thought i'd clicked wrong somewhere

[Blackhorse]

HI there,
I am from scotland and we don't have eyfs and I would not like to think that that makes all scottish childminders worse than the ones with eyfs..
Just wanted to add this to the debate..

also, I have found out in my previous job that there are many many people that will resist any change that is ''happening to them''.
I was on a team leader course that was discussing change quite extensively and there are loads of things to take into account when implementing change.
I myself like new things so never really understood the problem, but I have seen it happening over and over again....I guess if cms just get told one day...and now you have to do this...many will not react positvely not because of the EYFS itself but because it is a change...

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You were very lucky to have had the opportunity to do an extended course, many people wouldn't have had the chance. I know I didn't.

You seem to be saying that people who don't want to follow EYFS are too basically too lazy, or can't be bothered. As another poster says, perhaps they haven't had the support that you have. Don't forget, not all childminders are like you - just because you were able to understand & implement EYFS doesn't mean everyone is able to. For many it's not just a case of being taught new tricks. If the support isn't there, who's going to teach them?

You are clearly a very professional childminder, but does that make you any better than someone who doesn't follow EYFS? I bet there are a lot of minders out there who only do it when Ofsted is due, but they are still nurturing the children through play (as they have always done).

The good childminders who have always worked for the benefit of the children will continue to do so with or without EYFS. The childminders who don't take such a professional approach never will, no matter how many different frameworks are thrown at them.

I contacted the college for the training and asked them to put it on and then I paid for it - sometimes it pays to be pro active. I appreciate that not all childminders know this but that is what DO's are for.

I do not think I am in a position to judge anyone else but myself and I cannot see anywhere that I state or infer that people who do not follow the EYFS are lazy - I thought I had said that maybe they need more support! There is money there - the councils are given it. There are DO's being paid for - why not use these resources.

Recently Hertfordshire childminders were struggling to get training but after a few calls I found out that the training is there. It is only a phone call so why don't childminders who need help ask for it?

I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

At the end of the day whether people do or don't do it is down to them and let them be judged by Ofsted when they call and if they get an inadequate maybe they will rethink their choice of work.

After all, as previously said, this is not about the childminder it is about the children.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Another question - what is so hard about the EYFS?

I think I will start a new thread....

[Mouse]

[QUOTE=DebbieS26;430029]
I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

QUOTE]


So what about children who don't go into childcare? Are they disadvantaged because their parents aren't required to follow EYFS?

I think you have a very blinkered approach to how some childminders' situations. You are clearly dedicated to your job & will put a massive amount of effort into getting training etc. Not all childminders want to be phoning round pushing for training courses to be run. That doesn't make them bad childminders. Many areas have very little help with reguard to training and the development officers often know much less than the childminders.

To you, EYFS is not hard. To me, it's not hard. But to some people it is very hard to get their heads around it. I think a lot of it is commonsense and what I was doing anyway. I don't need a framework to tell me how to give children a good start in life. The problem is that most good childminders were already doing what they needed to, but they panic now that it's given a fancy title & so much emphasis is put on it. The bad childminders will continue to be bad, the good ones will continue to be good. EYFS isn't going to change that.

[Mouse]

xxxmistakexxx

[Chatterbox Childcare]

[QUOTE=DebbieS26;430029]
I think that the EYFS is important for the children. If people want to sit and play with children then that is fine as long as they use the framework of the EYFS. Studies have shown that we need to develop the children in the early years age group as this is when they develop and learn the most.

QUOTE]


So what about children who don't go into childcare? Are they disadvantaged because their parents aren't required to follow EYFS?

I think you have a very blinkered approach to how some childminders' situations. You are clearly dedicated to your job & will put a massive amount of effort into getting training etc. Not all childminders want to be phoning round pushing for training courses to be run. That doesn't make them bad childminders. Many areas have very little help with reguard to training and the development officers often know much less than the childminders.

To you, EYFS is not hard. To me, it's not hard. But to some people it is very hard to get their heads around it. I think a lot of it is commonsense and what I was doing anyway. I don't need a framework to tell me how to give children a good start in life. The problem is that most good childminders were already doing what they needed to, but they panic now that it's given a fancy title & so much emphasis is put on it. The bad childminders will continue to be bad, the good ones will continue to be good. EYFS isn't going to change that.

I do not have a blinkered approach - all I am saying is that if you need help ask for it. Childminders may need to be pro active thats all - nothing in this world comes to those who wait.

I understand that childminders struggle - I am a support worker, an area representative who liases with the council to fight for what we need, a member of a network - all unpaid and I am happy to do this. The most common question I get it "Where do I start?". I help with a checklist and this I think is something the powers to be could produce as a starting point.

What I do not understand is what is so hard about the EYFS? I think it isn't and those who say it is need to have it explained or give it a go and they will see how easy it is.

Those good childminders who you say are doing it already - what more do they need to do then?

[Mouse]

Like I said, I don't find EYFS hard. I think it's common sense & I'm quite happy to do all the paperwork that goes with it. I know you don't HAVE to do a lot of paperwork, but I wanted a good grade, so I do it. I don't for one minute believe I'd have got such a good grade if I'd only had the minimum amount of paperwork.

I would think most childminders registered in order to look after children, not to have to get pro-active & fight for training and support! You are happy to do that, but most don't want to. I too am a support minder and have helped many minders who have had a sudden panic thinking they can't do EYFS, when infact they already do. It is easy - it's basically what you naturally do. You see what the children can do and plan to move them on a bit, or to include their interests in the activities you offer. You get different toys out for different ages & development - bingo, you're planning & taking individual needs into account! The hardest bit for me is trying to convince minders that they are already doing EYFS. They also worry that they're not covering all the areas of learning, when actually they are. It's because they don't understand it, despite training.

I think the problem is not actually implementing EYFS, it's understanding how to fit what you already do to cover all the areas. And then having all the paperwork to back up what you do, because let's be honest, we all have to do much more than the minimum required.

And like I said somewhere before, are the children really any better off now that EYFS has been introduced? The good minders will continue as they did before (just with a lot more paperwork), and the 'bad' minders (we all know the sort!) won't use EYFS as it's supposed to be anyway. I know my business is run a lot better now that I am using EYFS - everything is in place, I have written planning to refer to etc. But not everyone wants to work that way. They want to take each day as it comes, go with the flow and have a much more relaxed approach. It might not seem as professional, but it doesn't mean it's not as good. I feel that we're all being standardised to make it easier for Ofsted to grade us!

I respect what you are saying and think this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Like I said, I don't find EYFS hard. I think it's common sense & I'm quite happy to do all the paperwork that goes with it. I know you don't HAVE to do a lot of paperwork, but I wanted a good grade, so I do it. I don't for one minute believe I'd have got such a good grade if I'd only had the minimum amount of paperwork.

I would think most childminders registered in order to look after children, not to have to get pro-active & fight for training and support! You are happy to do that, but most don't want to. I too am a support minder and have helped many minders who have had a sudden panic thinking they can't do EYFS, when infact they already do. It is easy - it's basically what you naturally do. You see what the children can do and plan to move them on a bit, or to include their interests in the activities you offer. You get different toys out for different ages & development - bingo, you're planning & taking individual needs into account! The hardest bit for me is trying to convince minders that they are already doing EYFS. They also worry that they're not covering all the areas of learning, when actually they are. It's because they don't understand it, despite training.

I think the problem is not actually implementing EYFS, it's understanding how to fit what you already do to cover all the areas. And then having all the paperwork to back up what you do, because let's be honest, we all have to do much more than the minimum required.

And like I said somewhere before, are the children really any better off now that EYFS has been introduced? The good minders will continue as they did before (just with a lot more paperwork), and the 'bad' minders (we all know the sort!) won't use EYFS as it's supposed to be anyway. I know my business is run a lot better now that I am using EYFS - everything is in place, I have written planning to refer to etc. But not everyone wants to work that way. They want to take each day as it comes, go with the flow and have a much more relaxed approach. It might not seem as professional, but it doesn't mean it's not as good. I feel that we're all being standardised to make it easier for Ofsted to grade us!

I respect what you are saying and think this is one area where we will have to agree to disagree!

Is this not what the EYFS is about - I know that I didn't always have something ready and that time was lost in the day?

Saying that I also understand where you are coming from and think we are saying the same thing.

Fun discussing it though! :)

[Winnie]

I think you maybe missing the point (or maybe i have it wrong :p ). There are plenty of people out there who strongly disagree with the EYFS, some of them are childminders. Some brave souls have stood up to be counted, & as the headlines have said, this childminder lost her battle. Now she (or may not) examined the issue before deciding the EYFS is against her ethos, but she did it by the correct route- she did not sit with her fingers in her ears with her eyes closed & hope the EYFS would go away. I think we should applaud her for standing her ground. Of course there are some childminders who will not bother to implement the EYFS because they do not understand it, think its nothing to do with them or are just lazy...but there are plenty who do not agree with the whole-sell control of our health, education and life-style that this government seem hell bent on enforcing on us. The EYFS is almost impossible to avoid. If as a parent you disagree with the principles you only have one real choice & that is to keep you child at home. In a free country we are supposed to have choice. The EYFS is incompatible with the Steiner ethos, some children do exceptionally well in Stiener nursery, but if they are forced to adhere to the EYFS those children will lose out. As you can tell i am opposed to the EYFS, it has some wonderful bits but is too restrictive & should not (imho) be 'law'. There should be a lawful alternative- other than keeping the child at home. I will implement the EYFS to the best of my ability because it is the law, but i do not agree with it. Grouping every childminder who does not want to implement the EYFS into one group & labelling them in someway 'sub-standard' is very narrow minded- imho of course. :D

[Cammie Doodle]

June think you replied on the wrong thread ha ha

Angel xx

oops My head is a shed . Sorry everyone
Really good debate
Think I had better not reply to anything for now as I may say the wrong thing or put the wrong thing in the wrong place

[Pipsqueak]

I think you maybe missing the point (or maybe i have it wrong :p ). There are plenty of people out there who strongly disagree with the EYFS, some of them are childminders. Some brave souls have stood up to be counted, & as the headlines have said, this childminder lost her battle. Now she (or may not) examined the issue before deciding the EYFS is against her ethos, but she did it by the correct route- she did not sit with her fingers in her ears with her eyes closed & hope the EYFS would go away. I think we should applaud her for standing her ground. Of course there are some childminders who will not bother to implement the EYFS because they do not understand it, think its nothing to do with them or are just lazy...but there are plenty who do not agree with the whole-sell control of our health, education and life-style that this government seem hell bent on enforcing on us. The EYFS is almost impossible to avoid. If as a parent you disagree with the principles you only have one real choice & that is to keep you child at home. In a free country we are supposed to have choice. The EYFS is incompatible with the Steiner ethos, some children do exceptionally well in Stiener nursery, but if they are forced to adhere to the EYFS those children will lose out. As you can tell i am opposed to the EYFS, it has some wonderful bits but is too restrictive & should not (imho) be 'law'. There should be a lawful alternative- other than keeping the child at home. I will implement the EYFS to the best of my ability because it is the law, but i do not agree with it. Grouping every childminder who does not want to implement the EYFS into one group & labelling them in someway 'sub-standard' is very narrow minded- imho of course. :D


Absolutely - this lady should be appaulded for taking a stand and going down the right route. It would be interesting to see how many people or other settings have obtained an exemption and on what grounds.

I don't think anyone is labelling anyone sub-standard just because they disagree with EYFS and I certainly don't think anyone on here is that narrow-minded or even discourteous but I do think it WILL go a long way to weeding out those who are sub-standard.
I do know one lady on my patch, bless her heart, got an inadequate for her inspection due to her total lack of knowledge and operation of EYFS. Lovely lovely lady, been minding a long while but just didn't think EYFS applied to her.... she is busting a gut to turn things around in her setting and while she doesn't 'get' or understand EYFS she is really putting her heart and soul into it because she loves childminding.
In comparision to the clique; who can jump through all the right hoops by just making the minimal effort required to make themselves look ok to the right people at the right time. These are the minders who shouldn't be minding for a variety of reasons.

In doing my FD, it meant a lot of research into the theory, current and past and it really opened my eyes to EYFS and I can see WHY it is in place.

I do wonder about the children who are not in a Setting though - are they disadvantaged as someone says??

ps am loving this polite, well mannered, adult debate, it is making for interesting reading. I actually feel safe posting my views and thats what is so good about this forum:thumbsup:

[wendywu]

The thing i would like is some hard and fast outlines of what Ofsted want and how much they want.

I like to do things to the best of my ability and do it right. I always feel that whatever i do it is never quite enough for Ofsted.

I did the B23 and do the EYFS. It does take up some time at weekends and evenings and i am quite proud of my Learning Journals. But as there is no set format how can i be sure what i am doing is correct.:eek:

[Pipsqueak]

The thing i would like is some hard and fast outlines of what Ofsted want and how much they want.

I like to do things to the best of my ability and do it right. I always feel that whatever i do it is never quite enough for Ofsted.

I did the B23 and do the EYFS. It does take up some time at weekends and evenings and i am quite proud of my Learning Journals. But as there is no set format how can i be sure what i am doing is correct.:eek:

Yes but my theory is.... if there is no prescribed method then so long as you can explain/justify how or what you are doing (and it shows that you are meeting the requirements that are set down) then no -one can tell you its wrong.
Will be quite happy to argue the toss with Mrs Ofsted:thumbsup: :D

[ORKSIE]

Yes but my theory is.... if there is no prescribed method then so long as you can explain/justify how or what you are doing (and it shows that you are meeting the requirements that are set down) then no -one can tell you its wrong.
Will be quite happy to argue the toss with Mrs Ofsted:thumbsup: :D

Well said:thumbsup:

[Pipsqueak]

Well said:thumbsup:

Thank you - am feeling quite brave tonight!!! lol Have won one battle today and its made me quite bolshie:laughing:

[Arthur]

Hello Everyone

I am the husband of the CM whose application for exemption was rejected. I thought it might be helpful to explain why my wife, with my full backing, decided to apply for exemption.

My wife has been a CM for 21 years and has cared for nearly 50 children in that time. We are still in contact with many of the families who she has worked for and some of the children she cared for still come and visit her (the eldest is now in his early 20s). Many of the children she cares for arrive as a baby and are still coming when they are in junior school. She has never had to advertise, doesn't have her name on the Surestart lists yet she has a steady flow of children because most of her work comes through the recommendation of families she has worked for in the past. She would, therefore, appear to be providing exactly the sort of service that parents want. Many of the people she has worked for are professional people and have included doctors, a solicitor, a nurse and many teachers as well as lots of other people.

We both have strong views about the way education has been politicised in the last 20 years or so and are concerned about the way that this is now permeating into the pre-school arena. We are both admirers of the Scandinavian educational model and believe that a later start to formal teaching is in the best interests of children and, therefore, society as a
whole. We are strong supporters of the OpenEYE group, who are the main opposition to the EYFS in its present form. The OpenEYE group are actually quite happy with large parts of the EYFS. The sections they are unhappy with are (i) the statutory nature of the learning and development (L&D) goals, (ii) the age range at which the L&D goals are targeted, (iii) some of the L&D goals themselves, (iv) the uncritical embracing of Information Communication Technology (ICT) for children whose brains are not yet sufficiently developed to cope with it and (v) the complex nature of the exemption process.

Taking each of those points in turn:

(i) There is not, as yet, a universally agreed model of how we should help young children to learn. It is wrong, therefore, to make the L&D goals of the EYFS statutory and, effectively, outlaw other learning models. Steiner and Montessori schools who both don't start formal learning until a child is about 7 now find their way of doing things is against the law and are having to apply for exemption to continue their way of working.

(ii) Many of the L&D goals are developmentally inappropriate and should be aimed at children in the year they are 6 rather than the year they are 5. The UK is one of the few countries who send their children to school at 5 and the government have now accepted large parts of The Rose Report into primary education and decided to drop this down to 4. For children this was already happening as schools increasingly opted for a single intake per year so that summer born children were starting school when they had just had their 4th
birthday. In many countries, formal schooling starts at 6, while in many Scandinavian countries it is 7. In education, though, more is not necessarily better. Finland, with the lowest number of hours spent in school, is at the top of educational league tables, while Poland, where children start school at 7, has now overtaken England at reading in the literacy tables. The Cambridge Primary Review has also shown there is no clear link between quantity and quality of education.

(iii) Two of the most challenging of the literacy goals are that children should “use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words” and “write their own names and other things such as labels and captions, and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation” have been widely criticised. The Children, Schools and Families parliamentary committee even held a special
evidence gathering meeting to consider just how appropriate they are. At this meeting it was revealed that the government's own experts advised against their inclusion, but that they were ignored. Unfortunately, it has been announced that no changes will be made until 2010 when the EYFS will be reviewed, although The Rose Report has recommended that the wording for those 2 goals be changed to 'aspirations'. Beverley Hughes herself is on record as saying that the six areas of development are 'equally important', yet there is no evidence to support this. In fact, evidence does exist to show that physical and social development are of much greater importance than any of the cognitive areas of development during a child's early years. Sadly, you won't find anything about this in any of the EYFS documentation or on any of the EYFS courses that childminders are expected to attend.

(iv) Many pieces of evidence exist to show that early exposure to ICT may hinder or be harmful to children, yet the EYFS expects that children should "find out about and identify the uses of everyday technology and use information and communication technology and programmable toys to support their learning". Part of a paper by Dr Aric Sigman, a fellow of both the British Psychological Society and the Royal Society of Medicine, states: "The frontal lobe is the brain’s executive control system, responsible for planning, organising and sequencing behaviour for self-control, moral judgment and attention. The frontal lobe continues to develop until the age of about 20. It is imperative that children and young adults do things, which thicken the fibres connecting neurons in this part of the brain, and the more the person is stimulated, the more the fibres will thicken. The study reported by The World Federation of Neurology expresses great concern over the way visual electronic media is affecting children by ‘...halting the process of frontal lobe development and affecting their ability to control potentially antisocial elements of their behaviour...the implications are very serious...children should also be encouraged to play outside with other children, interact and communicate with others as much as possible’. It is suggested that the more work done to thicken the fibres connecting the neurons in this part of the brain, the better the child’s ability will be to control their behaviour (Kawashima et al, 2001)". While the EYFS does encourage play, interaction and communication, it also encourages use of ICT equipment, which is perhaps a little short sighted. Ever wondered why so many young people have difficulty controlling their emotions these days? Perhaps this is your answer.

(v) Just before the summer recess of parliament last year and with less than three months before the EYFS became law, the DCSF announced the EYFS exemption procedure. Originally, there wasn't going to be such a thing, but the government were advised that without it, the EYFS may have been seen to be contravening human rights legislation. The exemption procedure has been posted on the EYFS section of the DCSF web site, but to say it is not very easy to find from either the DCSF or the Ofsted front page is an understatement. The exemption process also seems to have been designed to be as cumbersome as possible. Parents need to make separate requests for each child and also for each section of the EYFS they are unhappy with. Then, if exemption is granted, the exemption will only last for 12 months after which the whole process must be repeated, thus ensuring that only the most determined of parents will see the process through to the bitter end. Gaining exemption as a provider is a similarly complex process, requiring written requests, local authority interviews, a formal ballot of the parents and applications to the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) to be made for each application with the additional threat of the loss of local authority grants to the provider should exemption be granted. Private schools and parents who choose home schooling for their children do not have to follow the national curriculum because they are private institutions. All childminders and many nurseries are private institutions, yet they have to adhere to the EYFS unless they successfully gain exemption. Why do the government have a different set of standards for the national curriculum and the EYFS?

Both my wife and myself strongly support these objections. My wife is also fully supported in these objections by the parents she currently works for (2 teachers, a careers officer and a sales manager).

So, as you can see, it isn't just the observations and paperwork that my wife objects to. We are fully aware, by the way, that CMs are not required to write everything down and that the early years profile is likely to be done by the child's reception teacher, but that doesn't go anywhere near resolving her objections. Why should someone who is working on their own, caring for 5 children or less, be writing notes to themselves to tell them what they will be doing next week. Incidentally, will writing everything down make the children any cleverer or cause them to do something that little bit earlier? Of course not. My wife has also said that she doesn't want either herself or the children she cares for to be part of an experiment in social control from a government that believes in a centralist, top-down way of controlling people. The Scandinavian system is based on trust with no formal testing of children until they are 7 (with the exception of looking for disabilities). The English system is based on mistrust and requires a small army of inspectors to ensure that all CMs are adhering to the latest set of rules. They also don't tell you exactly what they want so that they always have an ace up their sleeve with which to trip up the unwary CM.

Even in the British Isles, there is no agreement about the EYFS because it is only England that has implemented such a dictatorial set of rules. Political parties can't agree either. The Conservatives have said they will amend the EYFS so that it is 'light touch' for smaller childcare providers and will therefore be 'less cumbersome', while the Lib Dems want to focus their attention on the children who completely miss childcare due to family circumstances. Labour, on the other hand, have set themselves targets to reduce child poverty and see the EYFS as the tool to do this for them. That is why you are asked about what you are doing to increase the outcomes of the children in your care on your self evaluation form.

I should also say that the decision to apply for exemption wasn't taken lightly. We knew it was going to be difficult and we also thought that the outcome was probably pre-determined, but we still decided to go ahead. There is also no right of appeal against the QCA's decision, but my wife can make another application which she will be doing once she has received written comments from the parents about the QCA decision.

[Winnie]

Absolutely - this lady should be appaulded for taking a stand and going down the right route. It would be interesting to see how many people or other settings have obtained an exemption and on what grounds.

I don't think anyone is labelling anyone sub-standard just because they disagree with EYFS and I certainly don't think anyone on here is that narrow-minded or even discourteous but I do think it WILL go a long way to weeding out those who are sub-standard.

In doing my FD, it meant a lot of research into the theory, current and past and it really opened my eyes to EYFS and I can see WHY it is in place.

I do wonder about the children who are not in a Setting though - are they disadvantaged as someone says??


ps am loving this polite, well mannered, adult debate, it is making for interesting reading. I actually feel safe posting my views and thats what is so good about this forum:thumbsup:


Debate is good ;) & i would not call anyone on here narrow minded- apologies if it came across like that :o
I wanted to comment on your comment about children not in settings. As you know the home environment is a perfectly good place to nurture young children, its the adult input that is important. The misconception when other people talk about children not in settings is of children stuck indoors without access to toy libraries, book librarys, health visitors and toddler groups. I've met plenty of, Mums, Grandparents and nanny's at baby singing groups and story time at the library etc, those children are in no way disadvantaged.
The EYFS is not the only way to do things- but it is the only way to do things in formal care.
We need to remember that school is not compulsory- education is- there are thousands of children not in school but still learning and growing.

[ORKSIE]

Thank you - am feeling quite brave tonight!!! lol Have won one battle today and its made me quite bolshie:laughing:

Your Welcome:)

[sarah707]

Hello Everyone

I am the husband of the CM whose application for exemption was rejected. I thought it might be helpful to explain why my wife, with my full backing, decided to apply for exemption.

My wife has been a CM for 21 years and has cared for nearly 50 children in that time. We are still in contact with many of the families who she has worked for and some of the children she cared for still come and visit her (the eldest is now in his early 20s). Many of the children she cares for arrive as a baby and are still coming when they are in junior school. She has never had to advertise, doesn't have her name on the Surestart lists yet she has a steady flow of children because most of her work comes through the recommendation of families she has worked for in the past. She would, therefore, appear to be providing exactly the sort of service that parents want. Many of the people she has worked for are professional people and have included doctors, a solicitor, a nurse and many teachers as well as lots of other people.

We both have strong views about the way education has been politicised in the last 20 years or so and are concerned about the way that this is now permeating into the pre-school arena. We are both admirers of the Scandinavian educational model and believe that a later start to formal teaching is in the best interests of children and, therefore, society as a
whole. We are strong supporters of the OpenEYE group, who are the main opposition to the EYFS in its present form. The OpenEYE group are actually quite happy with large parts of the EYFS. The sections they are unhappy with are (i) the statutory nature of the learning and development (L&D) goals, (ii) the age range at which the L&D goals are targeted, (iii) some of the L&D goals themselves, (iv) the uncritical embracing of Information Communication Technology (ICT) for children whose brains are not yet sufficiently developed to cope with it and (v) the complex nature of the exemption process.

Taking each of those points in turn:

(i) There is not, as yet, a universally agreed model of how we should help young children to learn. It is wrong, therefore, to make the L&D goals of the EYFS statutory and, effectively, outlaw other learning models. Steiner and Montessori schools who both don't start formal learning until a child is about 7 now find their way of doing things is against the law and are having to apply for exemption to continue their way of working.

(ii) Many of the L&D goals are developmentally inappropriate and should be aimed at children in the year they are 6 rather than the year they are 5. The UK is one of the few countries who send their children to school at 5 and the government have now accepted large parts of The Rose Report into primary education and decided to drop this down to 4. For children this was already happening as schools increasingly opted for a single intake per year so that summer born children were starting school when they had just had their 4th
birthday. In many countries, formal schooling starts at 6, while in many Scandinavian countries it is 7. In education, though, more is not necessarily better. Finland, with the lowest number of hours spent in school, is at the top of educational league tables, while Poland, where children start school at 7, has now overtaken England at reading in the literacy tables. The Cambridge Primary Review has also shown there is no clear link between quantity and quality of education.

(iii) Two of the most challenging of the literacy goals are that children should “use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words” and “write their own names and other things such as labels and captions, and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation” have been widely criticised. The Children, Schools and Families parliamentary committee even held a special
evidence gathering meeting to consider just how appropriate they are. At this meeting it was revealed that the government's own experts advised against their inclusion, but that they were ignored. Unfortunately, it has been announced that no changes will be made until 2010 when the EYFS will be reviewed, although The Rose Report has recommended that the wording for those 2 goals be changed to 'aspirations'. Beverley Hughes herself is on record as saying that the six areas of development are 'equally important', yet there is no evidence to support this. In fact, evidence does exist to show that physical and social development are of much greater importance than any of the cognitive areas of development during a child's early years. Sadly, you won't find anything about this in any of the EYFS documentation or on any of the EYFS courses that childminders are expected to attend.

(iv) Many pieces of evidence exist to show that early exposure to ICT may hinder or be harmful to children, yet the EYFS expects that children should "find out about and identify the uses of everyday technology and use information and communication technology and programmable toys to support their learning". Part of a paper by Dr Aric Sigman, a fellow of both the British Psychological Society and the Royal Society of Medicine, states: "The frontal lobe is the brain’s executive control system, responsible for planning, organising and sequencing behaviour for self-control, moral judgment and attention. The frontal lobe continues to develop until the age of about 20. It is imperative that children and young adults do things, which thicken the fibres connecting neurons in this part of the brain, and the more the person is stimulated, the more the fibres will thicken. The study reported by The World Federation of Neurology expresses great concern over the way visual electronic media is affecting children by ‘...halting the process of frontal lobe development and affecting their ability to control potentially antisocial elements of their behaviour...the implications are very serious...children should also be encouraged to play outside with other children, interact and communicate with others as much as possible’. It is suggested that the more work done to thicken the fibres connecting the neurons in this part of the brain, the better the child’s ability will be to control their behaviour (Kawashima et al, 2001)". While the EYFS does encourage play, interaction and communication, it also encourages use of ICT equipment, which is perhaps a little short sighted. Ever wondered why so many young people have difficulty controlling their emotions these days? Perhaps this is your answer.

(v) Just before the summer recess of parliament last year and with less than three months before the EYFS became law, the DCSF announced the EYFS exemption procedure. Originally, there wasn't going to be such a thing, but the government were advised that without it, the EYFS may have been seen to be contravening human rights legislation. The exemption procedure has been posted on the EYFS section of the DCSF web site, but to say it is not very easy to find from either the DCSF or the Ofsted front page is an understatement. The exemption process also seems to have been designed to be as cumbersome as possible. Parents need to make separate requests for each child and also for each section of the EYFS they are unhappy with. Then, if exemption is granted, the exemption will only last for 12 months after which the whole process must be repeated, thus ensuring that only the most determined of parents will see the process through to the bitter end. Gaining exemption as a provider is a similarly complex process, requiring written requests, local authority interviews, a formal ballot of the parents and applications to the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) to be made for each application with the additional threat of the loss of local authority grants to the provider should exemption be granted. Private schools and parents who choose home schooling for their children do not have to follow the national curriculum because they are private institutions. All childminders and many nurseries are private institutions, yet they have to adhere to the EYFS unless they successfully gain exemption. Why do the government have a different set of standards for the national curriculum and the EYFS?

Both my wife and myself strongly support these objections. My wife is also fully supported in these objections by the parents she currently works for (2 teachers, a careers officer and a sales manager).

So, as you can see, it isn't just the observations and paperwork that my wife objects to. We are fully aware, by the way, that CMs are not required to write everything down and that the early years profile is likely to be done by the child's reception teacher, but that doesn't go anywhere near resolving her objections. Why should someone who is working on their own, caring for 5 children or less, be writing notes to themselves to tell them what they will be doing next week. Incidentally, will writing everything down make the children any cleverer or cause them to do something that little bit earlier? Of course not. My wife has also said that she doesn't want either herself or the children she cares for to be part of an experiment in social control from a government that believes in a centralist, top-down way of controlling people. The Scandinavian system is based on trust with no formal testing of children until they are 7 (with the exception of looking for disabilities). The English system is based on mistrust and requires a small army of inspectors to ensure that all CMs are adhering to the latest set of rules. They also don't tell you exactly what they want so that they always have an ace up their sleeve with which to trip up the unwary CM.

Even in the British Isles, there is no agreement about the EYFS because it is only England that has implemented such a dictatorial set of rules. Political parties can't agree either. The Conservatives have said they will amend the EYFS so that it is 'light touch' for smaller childcare providers and will therefore be 'less cumbersome', while the Lib Dems want to focus their attention on the children who completely miss childcare due to family circumstances. Labour, on the other hand, have set themselves targets to reduce child poverty and see the EYFS as the tool to do this for them. That is why you are asked about what you are doing to increase the outcomes of the children in your care on your self evaluation form.

I should also say that the decision to apply for exemption wasn't taken lightly. We knew it was going to be difficult and we also thought that the outcome was probably pre-determined, but we still decided to go ahead. There is also no right of appeal against the QCA's decision, but my wife can make another application which she will be doing once she has received written comments from the parents about the QCA decision.

Hello Arthur and your wife - sorry I do not know your name!

Welcome to the Childminding Forum.

Thank you very much for bringing your reasoned argument to our members' attention.

I am sure it will give everyone food for thought.

I think you will find most childminders are like me... broadly supportive of what you have said in your post...

However, for me it is with the proviso that at the end of the day I just want to get on with the business of looking after the children and if that means following a slightly flawed document then so be it...

I hope we will see you posting more now you have found us! :D

[Mouse]

I think you maybe missing the point.




Winnie, back to your first reply, I don't think we were missing the point. The whole debate sprang up from me saying that I didn't think EYFS was suitable, or wanted, by everyone and that there should be an alternative for those who wanted to opt out.
Despite personally liking it & adopting it, I don't think everyone should have to. There should be some sort of choice for childminders & parents.

[Mouse]

Debate is good ;) I wanted to comment on your comment about children not in settings. As you know the home environment is a perfectly good place to nurture young children, its the adult input that is important. The misconception when other people talk about children not in settings is of children stuck indoors without access to toy libraries, book librarys, health visitors and toddler groups. I've met plenty of, Mums, Grandparents and nanny's at baby singing groups and story time at the library etc, those children are in no way disadvantaged.
The EYFS is not the only way to do things- but it is the only way to do things in formal care.
We need to remember that school is not compulsory- education is- there are thousands of children not in school but still learning and growing.


And this was another one of my points. We're being told that children in early years settings have to follow EYFS if they are to do well. But what about children who stay at home? In the majority of cases they are in no way disadvantaged by not following EYFS. If children manage at home without EYFS, why can't they manage with a childminder who doesn't follow it? I asked a couple of times if people thought children staying at home were disadvantaged by not following EYFS. The answer is no, so what is the overall benefit of it?

I still think it's a way of standardising us all, so that we're easier to monitor & grade - a bit like SATS in schools...and look what's happening there!

This has been a very interesting discussion.

[angeldelight]

Hello Everyone

I am the husband of the CM whose application for exemption was rejected. I thought it might be helpful to explain why my wife, with my full backing, decided to apply for exemption.

My wife has been a CM for 21 years and has cared for nearly 50 children in that time. We are still in contact with many of the families who she has worked for and some of the children she cared for still come and visit her (the eldest is now in his early 20s). Many of the children she cares for arrive as a baby and are still coming when they are in junior school. She has never had to advertise, doesn't have her name on the Surestart lists yet she has a steady flow of children because most of her work comes through the recommendation of families she has worked for in the past. She would, therefore, appear to be providing exactly the sort of service that parents want. Many of the people she has worked for are professional people and have included doctors, a solicitor, a nurse and many teachers as well as lots of other people.

We both have strong views about the way education has been politicised in the last 20 years or so and are concerned about the way that this is now permeating into the pre-school arena. We are both admirers of the Scandinavian educational model and believe that a later start to formal teaching is in the best interests of children and, therefore, society as a
whole. We are strong supporters of the OpenEYE group, who are the main opposition to the EYFS in its present form. The OpenEYE group are actually quite happy with large parts of the EYFS. The sections they are unhappy with are (i) the statutory nature of the learning and development (L&D) goals, (ii) the age range at which the L&D goals are targeted, (iii) some of the L&D goals themselves, (iv) the uncritical embracing of Information Communication Technology (ICT) for children whose brains are not yet sufficiently developed to cope with it and (v) the complex nature of the exemption process.

Taking each of those points in turn:

(i) There is not, as yet, a universally agreed model of how we should help young children to learn. It is wrong, therefore, to make the L&D goals of the EYFS statutory and, effectively, outlaw other learning models. Steiner and Montessori schools who both don't start formal learning until a child is about 7 now find their way of doing things is against the law and are having to apply for exemption to continue their way of working.

(ii) Many of the L&D goals are developmentally inappropriate and should be aimed at children in the year they are 6 rather than the year they are 5. The UK is one of the few countries who send their children to school at 5 and the government have now accepted large parts of The Rose Report into primary education and decided to drop this down to 4. For children this was already happening as schools increasingly opted for a single intake per year so that summer born children were starting school when they had just had their 4th
birthday. In many countries, formal schooling starts at 6, while in many Scandinavian countries it is 7. In education, though, more is not necessarily better. Finland, with the lowest number of hours spent in school, is at the top of educational league tables, while Poland, where children start school at 7, has now overtaken England at reading in the literacy tables. The Cambridge Primary Review has also shown there is no clear link between quantity and quality of education.

(iii) Two of the most challenging of the literacy goals are that children should “use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words” and “write their own names and other things such as labels and captions, and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation” have been widely criticised. The Children, Schools and Families parliamentary committee even held a special
evidence gathering meeting to consider just how appropriate they are. At this meeting it was revealed that the government's own experts advised against their inclusion, but that they were ignored. Unfortunately, it has been announced that no changes will be made until 2010 when the EYFS will be reviewed, although The Rose Report has recommended that the wording for those 2 goals be changed to 'aspirations'. Beverley Hughes herself is on record as saying that the six areas of development are 'equally important', yet there is no evidence to support this. In fact, evidence does exist to show that physical and social development are of much greater importance than any of the cognitive areas of development during a child's early years. Sadly, you won't find anything about this in any of the EYFS documentation or on any of the EYFS courses that childminders are expected to attend.

(iv) Many pieces of evidence exist to show that early exposure to ICT may hinder or be harmful to children, yet the EYFS expects that children should "find out about and identify the uses of everyday technology and use information and communication technology and programmable toys to support their learning". Part of a paper by Dr Aric Sigman, a fellow of both the British Psychological Society and the Royal Society of Medicine, states: "The frontal lobe is the brain’s executive control system, responsible for planning, organising and sequencing behaviour for self-control, moral judgment and attention. The frontal lobe continues to develop until the age of about 20. It is imperative that children and young adults do things, which thicken the fibres connecting neurons in this part of the brain, and the more the person is stimulated, the more the fibres will thicken. The study reported by The World Federation of Neurology expresses great concern over the way visual electronic media is affecting children by ‘...halting the process of frontal lobe development and affecting their ability to control potentially antisocial elements of their behaviour...the implications are very serious...children should also be encouraged to play outside with other children, interact and communicate with others as much as possible’. It is suggested that the more work done to thicken the fibres connecting the neurons in this part of the brain, the better the child’s ability will be to control their behaviour (Kawashima et al, 2001)". While the EYFS does encourage play, interaction and communication, it also encourages use of ICT equipment, which is perhaps a little short sighted. Ever wondered why so many young people have difficulty controlling their emotions these days? Perhaps this is your answer.

(v) Just before the summer recess of parliament last year and with less than three months before the EYFS became law, the DCSF announced the EYFS exemption procedure. Originally, there wasn't going to be such a thing, but the government were advised that without it, the EYFS may have been seen to be contravening human rights legislation. The exemption procedure has been posted on the EYFS section of the DCSF web site, but to say it is not very easy to find from either the DCSF or the Ofsted front page is an understatement. The exemption process also seems to have been designed to be as cumbersome as possible. Parents need to make separate requests for each child and also for each section of the EYFS they are unhappy with. Then, if exemption is granted, the exemption will only last for 12 months after which the whole process must be repeated, thus ensuring that only the most determined of parents will see the process through to the bitter end. Gaining exemption as a provider is a similarly complex process, requiring written requests, local authority interviews, a formal ballot of the parents and applications to the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) to be made for each application with the additional threat of the loss of local authority grants to the provider should exemption be granted. Private schools and parents who choose home schooling for their children do not have to follow the national curriculum because they are private institutions. All childminders and many nurseries are private institutions, yet they have to adhere to the EYFS unless they successfully gain exemption. Why do the government have a different set of standards for the national curriculum and the EYFS?

Both my wife and myself strongly support these objections. My wife is also fully supported in these objections by the parents she currently works for (2 teachers, a careers officer and a sales manager).

So, as you can see, it isn't just the observations and paperwork that my wife objects to. We are fully aware, by the way, that CMs are not required to write everything down and that the early years profile is likely to be done by the child's reception teacher, but that doesn't go anywhere near resolving her objections. Why should someone who is working on their own, caring for 5 children or less, be writing notes to themselves to tell them what they will be doing next week. Incidentally, will writing everything down make the children any cleverer or cause them to do something that little bit earlier? Of course not. My wife has also said that she doesn't want either herself or the children she cares for to be part of an experiment in social control from a government that believes in a centralist, top-down way of controlling people. The Scandinavian system is based on trust with no formal testing of children until they are 7 (with the exception of looking for disabilities). The English system is based on mistrust and requires a small army of inspectors to ensure that all CMs are adhering to the latest set of rules. They also don't tell you exactly what they want so that they always have an ace up their sleeve with which to trip up the unwary CM.

Even in the British Isles, there is no agreement about the EYFS because it is only England that has implemented such a dictatorial set of rules. Political parties can't agree either. The Conservatives have said they will amend the EYFS so that it is 'light touch' for smaller childcare providers and will therefore be 'less cumbersome', while the Lib Dems want to focus their attention on the children who completely miss childcare due to family circumstances. Labour, on the other hand, have set themselves targets to reduce child poverty and see the EYFS as the tool to do this for them. That is why you are asked about what you are doing to increase the outcomes of the children in your care on your self evaluation form.

I should also say that the decision to apply for exemption wasn't taken lightly. We knew it was going to be difficult and we also thought that the outcome was probably pre-determined, but we still decided to go ahead. There is also no right of appeal against the QCA's decision, but my wife can make another application which she will be doing once she has received written comments from the parents about the QCA decision.

Welcome to the forum

It was very very interesting to hear your views

Thank you for explaining

Keep us posted on what happens in the future with your wife

Angel xx

[Arthur]

Sorry, everyone, I should have said that my wife's name is Pat.

Here are a couple of links to some videos that go some way to illustrating the points I was making.

The first is a 10 minute clip from the OpenEYE group called 'Too Much, Too Soon' (http://openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/video/). It is introduced by Dr Penelope Leach who was, up until a few months ago, the president of the NCMA and who is a supporter of the OpenEYE group.

The second is a 30 minute programme from Teacher's TV called How Do They Do It In Sweden? (http://www.teachers.tv/video/12090) This one is really worth watching so, if we get a wet Bank Holiday weekend, reserve yourself half an hour with a cup or a glass of whatever you like to drink and sit back and watch in envy.

[Winnie]

Winnie, back to your first reply, I don't think we were missing the point. The whole debate sprang up from me saying that I didn't think EYFS was suitable, or wanted, by everyone and that there should be an alternative for those who wanted to opt out.
Despite personally liking it & adopting it, I don't think everyone should have to. There should be some sort of choice for childminders & parents.

Mouse i've re-read your posts and we seem to be in agreement:thumbsup:

I agree with Sarah when she says she wants "to get on with the business of looking after the children and if that means following a slightly flawed document then so be it..." i certainly will do it to the best of my ability. I think Aurthur & Mrs Arthur have put foward a very good arguement- many of the points i agree with wholeheartedly. I have personnally been very concerned about how this government have used Sure Start, CC and now the EYFS to their own ends- reducing benefit, control etc, but that is probably for another debate another time :D You hit one nail on the head Mouse when you said it is a way of standardising us- cloning childcare i call it ;)
I have a headach & must stop as i'm having trouble stringing words together
otherwise i would love to continue this debate.

[bex8282]

I am a newbie to all of this and did not realise until now that the EYFS was only produced last september!!

Think that whoever registered form sept last year should do the EYFS and people before that who have been doing it for 20 years should stick to what they know best and it obviously works.

Think some people do not like the change when they have been doing it for so so many years.

[Pipsqueak]

Hello Everyone

I am the husband of the CM whose application for exemption was rejected. I thought it might be helpful to explain why my wife, with my full backing, decided to apply for exemption.

My wife has been a CM for 21 years and has cared for nearly 50 children in that time. We are still in contact with many of the families who she has worked for and some of the children she cared for still come and visit her (the eldest is now in his early 20s). Many of the children she cares for arrive as a baby and are still coming when they are in junior school. She has never had to advertise, doesn't have her name on the Surestart lists yet she has a steady flow of children because most of her work comes through the recommendation of families she has worked for in the past. She would, therefore, appear to be providing exactly the sort of service that parents want. Many of the people she has worked for are professional people and have included doctors, a solicitor, a nurse and many teachers as well as lots of other people.

We both have strong views about the way education has been politicised in the last 20 years or so and are concerned about the way that this is now permeating into the pre-school arena. We are both admirers of the Scandinavian educational model and believe that a later start to formal teaching is in the best interests of children and, therefore, society as a
whole. We are strong supporters of the OpenEYE group, who are the main opposition to the EYFS in its present form. The OpenEYE group are actually quite happy with large parts of the EYFS. The sections they are unhappy with are (i) the statutory nature of the learning and development (L&D) goals, (ii) the age range at which the L&D goals are targeted, (iii) some of the L&D goals themselves, (iv) the uncritical embracing of Information Communication Technology (ICT) for children whose brains are not yet sufficiently developed to cope with it and (v) the complex nature of the exemption process.

Taking each of those points in turn:

(i) There is not, as yet, a universally agreed model of how we should help young children to learn. It is wrong, therefore, to make the L&D goals of the EYFS statutory and, effectively, outlaw other learning models. Steiner and Montessori schools who both don't start formal learning until a child is about 7 now find their way of doing things is against the law and are having to apply for exemption to continue their way of working.

(ii) Many of the L&D goals are developmentally inappropriate and should be aimed at children in the year they are 6 rather than the year they are 5. The UK is one of the few countries who send their children to school at 5 and the government have now accepted large parts of The Rose Report into primary education and decided to drop this down to 4. For children this was already happening as schools increasingly opted for a single intake per year so that summer born children were starting school when they had just had their 4th
birthday. In many countries, formal schooling starts at 6, while in many Scandinavian countries it is 7. In education, though, more is not necessarily better. Finland, with the lowest number of hours spent in school, is at the top of educational league tables, while Poland, where children start school at 7, has now overtaken England at reading in the literacy tables. The Cambridge Primary Review has also shown there is no clear link between quantity and quality of education.

(iii) Two of the most challenging of the literacy goals are that children should “use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words” and “write their own names and other things such as labels and captions, and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation” have been widely criticised. The Children, Schools and Families parliamentary committee even held a special
evidence gathering meeting to consider just how appropriate they are. At this meeting it was revealed that the government's own experts advised against their inclusion, but that they were ignored. Unfortunately, it has been announced that no changes will be made until 2010 when the EYFS will be reviewed, although The Rose Report has recommended that the wording for those 2 goals be changed to 'aspirations'. Beverley Hughes herself is on record as saying that the six areas of development are 'equally important', yet there is no evidence to support this. In fact, evidence does exist to show that physical and social development are of much greater importance than any of the cognitive areas of development during a child's early years. Sadly, you won't find anything about this in any of the EYFS documentation or on any of the EYFS courses that childminders are expected to attend.

(iv) Many pieces of evidence exist to show that early exposure to ICT may hinder or be harmful to children, yet the EYFS expects that children should "find out about and identify the uses of everyday technology and use information and communication technology and programmable toys to support their learning". Part of a paper by Dr Aric Sigman, a fellow of both the British Psychological Society and the Royal Society of Medicine, states: "The frontal lobe is the brain’s executive control system, responsible for planning, organising and sequencing behaviour for self-control, moral judgment and attention. The frontal lobe continues to develop until the age of about 20. It is imperative that children and young adults do things, which thicken the fibres connecting neurons in this part of the brain, and the more the person is stimulated, the more the fibres will thicken. The study reported by The World Federation of Neurology expresses great concern over the way visual electronic media is affecting children by ‘...halting the process of frontal lobe development and affecting their ability to control potentially antisocial elements of their behaviour...the implications are very serious...children should also be encouraged to play outside with other children, interact and communicate with others as much as possible’. It is suggested that the more work done to thicken the fibres connecting the neurons in this part of the brain, the better the child’s ability will be to control their behaviour (Kawashima et al, 2001)". While the EYFS does encourage play, interaction and communication, it also encourages use of ICT equipment, which is perhaps a little short sighted. Ever wondered why so many young people have difficulty controlling their emotions these days? Perhaps this is your answer.

(v) Just before the summer recess of parliament last year and with less than three months before the EYFS became law, the DCSF announced the EYFS exemption procedure. Originally, there wasn't going to be such a thing, but the government were advised that without it, the EYFS may have been seen to be contravening human rights legislation. The exemption procedure has been posted on the EYFS section of the DCSF web site, but to say it is not very easy to find from either the DCSF or the Ofsted front page is an understatement. The exemption process also seems to have been designed to be as cumbersome as possible. Parents need to make separate requests for each child and also for each section of the EYFS they are unhappy with. Then, if exemption is granted, the exemption will only last for 12 months after which the whole process must be repeated, thus ensuring that only the most determined of parents will see the process through to the bitter end. Gaining exemption as a provider is a similarly complex process, requiring written requests, local authority interviews, a formal ballot of the parents and applications to the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) to be made for each application with the additional threat of the loss of local authority grants to the provider should exemption be granted. Private schools and parents who choose home schooling for their children do not have to follow the national curriculum because they are private institutions. All childminders and many nurseries are private institutions, yet they have to adhere to the EYFS unless they successfully gain exemption. Why do the government have a different set of standards for the national curriculum and the EYFS?

Both my wife and myself strongly support these objections. My wife is also fully supported in these objections by the parents she currently works for (2 teachers, a careers officer and a sales manager).

So, as you can see, it isn't just the observations and paperwork that my wife objects to. We are fully aware, by the way, that CMs are not required to write everything down and that the early years profile is likely to be done by the child's reception teacher, but that doesn't go anywhere near resolving her objections. Why should someone who is working on their own, caring for 5 children or less, be writing notes to themselves to tell them what they will be doing next week. Incidentally, will writing everything down make the children any cleverer or cause them to do something that little bit earlier? Of course not. My wife has also said that she doesn't want either herself or the children she cares for to be part of an experiment in social control from a government that believes in a centralist, top-down way of controlling people. The Scandinavian system is based on trust with no formal testing of children until they are 7 (with the exception of looking for disabilities). The English system is based on mistrust and requires a small army of inspectors to ensure that all CMs are adhering to the latest set of rules. They also don't tell you exactly what they want so that they always have an ace up their sleeve with which to trip up the unwary CM.

Even in the British Isles, there is no agreement about the EYFS because it is only England that has implemented such a dictatorial set of rules. Political parties can't agree either. The Conservatives have said they will amend the EYFS so that it is 'light touch' for smaller childcare providers and will therefore be 'less cumbersome', while the Lib Dems want to focus their attention on the children who completely miss childcare due to family circumstances. Labour, on the other hand, have set themselves targets to reduce child poverty and see the EYFS as the tool to do this for them. That is why you are asked about what you are doing to increase the outcomes of the children in your care on your self evaluation form.

I should also say that the decision to apply for exemption wasn't taken lightly. We knew it was going to be difficult and we also thought that the outcome was probably pre-determined, but we still decided to go ahead. There is also no right of appeal against the QCA's decision, but my wife can make another application which she will be doing once she has received written comments from the parents about the QCA decision.


Hi Arthur, welcome. That is a really well thought out and delivered argument and opposition, well done. And well done to Pat (and you) for standing up for what you belive in - it can't have been easy.
Is Pat going to carry on childminding?

Whilst there are points I disagree with in the EYFS, I do believe the overall nature and principle of it is good. I do think more thought needs to go into it but tbh I am relishing the challenge. I do not implement the statements as they are written down but I do tweak them to my 'look, listen, note' obs - rightly or wrongly and I can show evidence that I am a) doing the my job correctly b)giving the children opportunities and learning within a good environment.

I am not big on ICT tbh and again in part I agree with you but there is evidence to say that use of ICT can and does help children. For example using everyday technology - (and this is where we as minders are perfect) - using the dishwasher, washing machine, pedestrian crossings etc etc). I know when people see the acronmyn ICT they automatically think computers - this is not the case.

I like the scandinavian models and also the New Zealand model.

Hope you like us enough to stop on the forum and join in with the rest of the stuff!

[Mouse]

Just going off on a slight tangent, but if I am delivering EYFS the same as a nursery (and often to a higher standard), why am I not allowed to receive funding for 3 year olds?

I know I could join my local network & become accredited to accept nursery vouchers, but why should I? Nurseries don't have to join a network.

If I am delivering the same education that nurseries do, I think I should be able to offer free places. There still seems to be the idea that nurseries are better and that's where children should be, but I know most of my parents would happily leave their children with me rather than send them to nursery, but few of them are going to turn down 5 free sessions a week.

I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't. That way children could have the continuity of stopping with their childminder until they go to school.

I'd be interested to know what other people think. If such a scheme existed, would you still do EYFS or not?

[Pipsqueak]

Just going off on a slight tangent, but if I am delivering EYFS the same as a nursery (and often to a higher standard), why am I not allowed to receive funding for 3 year olds?

I know I could join my local network & become accredited to accept nursery vouchers, but why should I? Nurseries don't have to join a network.

If I am delivering the same education that nurseries do, I think I should be able to offer free places. There still seems to be the idea that nurseries are better and that's where children should be, but I know most of my parents would happily leave their children with me rather than send them to nursery, but few of them are going to turn down 5 free sessions a week.

I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't. That way children could have the continuity of stopping with their childminder until they go to school.

I'd be interested to know what other people think. If such a scheme existed, would you still do EYFS or not?


We were talking about this the other night at our network meeting. I know that there is work behind the scenes to enable more funding for networks for childminders to be able to deliver this.
I understand exactly what you are saying, what I disagree with, there needs to be some sort of vetting and checking otherwise you are going to get those who aren't good/better/concientious saying they are delivering nursery education and the children are going to suffer.

I still don't think there should be an opt in or opt out system, effectively offering a two tier system.

[Roseolivia]

And this was another one of my points. We're being told that children in early years settings have to follow EYFS if they are to do well. But what about children who stay at home? In the majority of cases they are in no way disadvantaged by not following EYFS. If children manage at home without EYFS, why can't they manage with a childminder who doesn't follow it? I asked a couple of times if people thought children staying at home were disadvantaged by not following EYFS. The answer is no, so what is the overall benefit of it?

I still think it's a way of standardising us all, so that we're easier to monitor & grade - a bit like SATS in schools...and look what's happening there!

This has been a very interesting discussion.

I completley agree with this statement, years ago most children stayed at home with mother (i being one) and this didn't in any way at all make us less educated than others. I did well at school up until i found boys and alcohol:laughing:, often getting top marks in some lessons. What about us minders who also have young children? we don't have to use the EYFS with them, what's the difference?
I think Arthur and his wife are very brave to stand up to the government and say they don't agree with what they want us to do. I agree some of the EYFS is useful (especially welfare requirements) as it makes sure all childminders are working to the same standards. But isn't there an argument that, like children all childminders are different and do things differently. i agree we should be inspected by someone to make sure we are keeping children safe and healthy because surely this is the main aim of a childminders role not making children reach 'targets'.

[PixiePetal]

And this was another one of my points. We're being told that children in early years settings have to follow EYFS if they are to do well. But what about children who stay at home? In the majority of cases they are in no way disadvantaged by not following EYFS. If children manage at home without EYFS, why can't they manage with a childminder who doesn't follow it? I asked a couple of times if people thought children staying at home were disadvantaged by not following EYFS. The answer is no, so what is the overall benefit of it?

I still think it's a way of standardising us all, so that we're easier to monitor & grade - a bit like SATS in schools...and look what's happening there!

This has been a very interesting discussion.

I agree with this bit. I was no way at a disdvantage once at school for staying at home with my mum pre school. Reading and writing early, well adjusted and happy. Started school without a backwards glance according to my mum. Quite shy, but that didn't change till much later :blush:

My own kids went to playgroup, when that was exactly what they did......play. With a folder of work to bring home at the end of terms.

The EYFS welfare bits I totally agree with, all children need to be safe from harm and neglect.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I agree with this bit. I was no way at a disdvantage once at school for staying at home with my mum pre school. Reading and writing early, well adjusted and happy. Started school without a backwards glance according to my mum. Quite shy, but that didn't change till much later :blush:

My own kids went to playgroup, when that was exactly what they did......play. With a folder of work to bring home at the end of terms.

The EYFS welfare bits I totally agree with, all children need to be safe from harm and neglect.

Children play at nursery - this is what I do with mine.

[buildingblocks]

I thoroughly agree. If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it. As I have previously said I spend 10 minutes per month per child. That is hardly time consuming.

I think that there are a lot of childminders out there who don't understand the EYFS and they need to go to their DO and ask for help.

Just playing catch up after holiday

That is all well and good if you have a good DO.

I had a phone call late last year saying we notice from our records you haven't had a visit recently (er never in 5 and a half years thank you) so we are coming to visit you (I am guessing there was a reason behind this) have you any problems.

SO I said yes struggling with the EYFS and especially the next steps part of it. She came to visit. Found fault with a lot of stuff and then in her report had made suggestions which were actually things I had brought up.

Never actually gave me any help re EYFS although others were given lots of paperwork to help them not me.

So I muddle through with lots of help from here and one or two people in particular but just remember some areas do not get a lot of help from DO's.

[buildingblocks]

So what about children who don't go into childcare? Are they disadvantaged because their parents aren't required to follow EYFS?
.

I have recently been thinking this point. As a childminder how many of you do the EYFS with your own children?

Three of my mindees came to me aged 5, 3, 2 having been home eded. THey are actually three of the brightest children you would wish to meet all acheived without the EYFS as have many others before it was brought in.

Makes me think how the EYFS makes a difference to a child. what about all those children as has been said will never be involved in child care other than there parents.

I for one did not dread the EYFS as such I class myself as a professional but struggle to get my thougths etc onto paper. Because of this I took paperwork on holiday with me to do (and finally finsihed my rough draft of the SEF thanks to Sarah's wonderful book - just need to type it up) as I have done for hte previous two holidays. i didn't want to and didn't enjoy it but it was necessary. Why because although I had a lot of paperwork in place I didn't have what was needed and I have never seemed to catch up.

Because of this I am rethinking my choice of profession and seriously considering leaving the job I love not becaue I am 'lazy' or because I don't believe in the EYFS but because I am not prepared to sacrifice the little personal life I have even further. I am hoping htat I can get a job in a nursery which I will hate but will at least give me the chance to carry on working in childcare which I havce done for over 27 years.

oops meant to add that in order to try and avoid the inevitable I am reducing my working week to either three or four days with a day off in the end to try and get myself sorted. One of hte reasons is I am due my inspection theis year and I do not want to fail or be downgraded. I will never be outstanding but I would like to retain my good. This means that this week I will be giving notice to one maybe two families when I can not afford to lose them or do not want to as I adore these children in the hope that perhaps I can get on top of it all and stay in a profession I love.

sometimes something has to give and I have realised over the past few months that although I do not like the word (as I do think it is over used) I am so stressed and I am not prepared to risk my health or my marriage for the sake of a job no matter how much I love it. So much so that I am considering going back to cleaning for a living which I did for a year.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Just playing catch up after holiday

That is all well and good if you have a good DO.

I had a phone call late last year saying we notice from our records you haven't had a visit recently (er never in 5 and a half years thank you) so we are coming to visit you (I am guessing there was a reason behind this) have you any problems.

SO I said yes struggling with the EYFS and especially the next steps part of it. She came to visit. Found fault with a lot of stuff and then in her report had made suggestions which were actually things I had brought up.

Never actually gave me any help re EYFS although others were given lots of paperwork to help them not me.

So I muddle through with lots of help from here and one or two people in particular but just remember some areas do not get a lot of help from DO's.

If you were sold a loaf of bread in the shop and it was mouldy would you throw it away and buy another loaf or would you take it back and complain? me I would complain - it might only be £1.50 but it is my £1.50.

The EYFS is the same and if you are not getting the support that you feel you need complain and make someone come out to you again. The DO's are funded by the government somewhere and they are accountable.

[Daftbat]

I have recently been thinking this point. As a childminder how many of you do the EYFS with your own children?

Three of my mindees came to me aged 5, 3, 2 having been home eded. THey are actually three of the brightest children you would wish to meet all acheived without the EYFS as have many others before it was brought in.

Makes me think how the EYFS makes a difference to a child. what about all those children as has been said will never be involved in child care other than there parents.

I for one did not dread the EYFS as such I class myself as a professional but struggle to get my thougths etc onto paper. Because of this I took paperwork on holiday with me to do (and finally finsihed my rough draft of the SEF thanks to Sarah's wonderful book - just need to type it up) as I have done for hte previous two holidays. i didn't want to and didn't enjoy it but it was necessary. Why because although I had a lot of paperwork in place I didn't have what was needed and I have never seemed to catch up.

Because of this I am rethinking my choice of profession and seriously considering leaving the job I love not becaue I am 'lazy' or because I don't believe in the EYFS but because I am not prepared to sacrifice the little personal life I have even further. I am hoping htat I can get a job in a nursery which I will hate but will at least give me the chance to carry on working in childcare which I havce done for over 27 years.

oops meant to add that in order to try and avoid the inevitable I am reducing my working week to either three or four days with a day off in the end to try and get myself sorted. One of hte reasons is I am due my inspection theis year and I do not want to fail or be downgraded. I will never be outstanding but I would like to retain my good. This means that this week I will be giving notice to one maybe two families when I can not afford to lose them or do not want to as I adore these children in the hope that perhaps I can get on top of it all and stay in a profession I love.

sometimes something has to give and I have realised over the past few months that although I do not like the word (as I do think it is over used) I am so stressed and I am not prepared to risk my health or my marriage for the sake of a job no matter how much I love it. So much so that I am considering going back to cleaning for a living which I did for a year.

Hi,
I read your post and felt really sad. You are obviously a dedicated childminder and have done your "homework" with the help of Sarah's books etc.

I was in a similar situation to you earlier this year - i had received the EYFS pack and kept getting it out and found myself more confused each time. I knew i had an inspection due and thought i had got things covered.

I then found this site. I used Srah's books and will freely admit that i spent ALL DAY one saturday - at least 10 hours sorting out my SEF and looking again at EYFS and working out a strategy for working within it in my setting.

Since then i have found that so long as i keep up to date i am not spending more than 15 mins per child per week keeping things going. I often do writing up obs etc whilst children are free playing, or asleep. I teamed up with another minder and we do monthly planning together over a coffee - about 30 mins of brainstorming whilst our mindees are happy together playing.

In February i was inspected and having got Good in the past i was amazed that i received Outstanding this time. If i can do it - anyone can. Don't delve too deep into things. Short notes and links to development is all that inspectors are looking for. Planning can be brief, but so long as it is inclusive and well thought out its fine.

I feel sure from what you have said that you would maintain your grading anyway and the children you are considering giving notice too would be best served by having a loving, friendly environment continued by you still caring for them. Going back to cleaning?????? Are you mad????? I don't mean to sound patronising but your skills will go to waste.

I freely told my inspector that i was overwhelmed with the eyfs paperwork when it came. She agreed that sometimes it can take a while for things to "click" and for people to see that lots of things they are doing are exactly what Ofsted are looking for anyway. I am no mastermind and all of us on the forum are here to help.

[youarewhatyoueat]

A few points I just want to reply to, Yes Debbie the do's are funded but my nearest is over 35 miles away and has a huge area to cover. I also feel just like building blocks and I work a 3 day week minding and do cleaning on a couple of others, I have considered upping my hours for minding but I honestly don't think I could do it, i'm swamped with doing the nvq3 and I have 4 children of my own. I came into cm to enable me to return to work while looking after my own children but it's taken me ages just to get all my paperwork in order so I can do eyfs correctly, I still haven't done my sef and frankly I've had enough, I'm going to finish my nvq and get a job working for someone else so I don't have to bring my work home and I can have my life back. It could all have been a lot easier, if the whole point of eyfs was to standardize everything then the paperwork could have been set up in advance for us, and then it wouldn't be as competitive as it now is and people wouldn't be selling their own paperwork for profit.

[mrs c]

and I have 4 children of my own. I came into cm to enable me to return to work while looking after my own children but it's taken me ages just to get all my paperwork in order so I can do eyfs correctly
Same here - only thing is even though I have spent hours upon hours doing paperwork, I'm still not sure that what I am doing is correct. My husband is also commenting on how irritable I have become.

[sarah707]

Same here - only thing is even though I have spent hours upon hours doing paperwork, I'm still not sure that what I am doing is correct. My husband is also commenting on how irritable I have become.

It shouldn't take hours once you've got it all in place...

It should take a short time updating it when the children are playing then a bit of time at the weekend sorting out next week and doing the odd update through the year.

You can diary updates so you do a main part of your paperwork every month eg risk assessments in September, menus in December, Portfolio in March etc. That way you're not trying to do everything at once and overloading yourself.

If you really are taking that long doing paperwork and getting in a frazzle then I think you need to consider what forms you are using and what you can cut down without affecting the children's experience.

For example, if you are planning every activity and then the children don't do them, stop and let the children's interests take over. Instead try planning some in advance (routines, multicultural stuff etc) and the rest when it has happened... retrospective planning shows you are following the children and it's as important as all the rest.

If you are spending lots of time writing up pages of observations on each child each week then stop and ask yourself who is going to read them. Instead keep the notes brief, just enough to show evidence of progression and next steps ...

If it is affecting your family life then you must stop and evaluate.

Hope this helps :D

[ORKSIE]

This is my personal opinion..i love EYFS. I really enjoy doing ROA's, My Mindees love talikng them home to show mum and Dad.
I hated Birth to 3, didnt know where to put anything.
I totally respect others point of view. but this is mine:)

[Pipsqueak]

This is my personal opinion..i love EYFS. I really enjoy doing ROA's, My Mindees love talikng them home to show mum and Dad.
I hated Birth to 3, didnt know where to put anything.
I totally respect others point of view. but this is mine:)

Don't sit on the fence here SLC - say what you mean:laughing:

[ORKSIE]

Don't sit on the fence here SLC - say what you mean:laughing:

LMAO I wont:laughing: :laughing:

[estrelas]

:
Don't sit on the fence here SLC - say what you mean:laughing:

:laughing: :laughing:

I agree tho, i find EYFS fairly easy, i only do about ten mins a day

[Tups]

Sorry, everyone, I should have said that my wife's name is Pat.

Here are a couple of links to some videos that go some way to illustrating the points I was making.

The first is a 10 minute clip from the OpenEYE group called 'Too Much, Too Soon' (http://openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/video/). It is introduced by Dr Penelope Leach who was, up until a few months ago, the president of the NCMA and who is a supporter of the OpenEYE group.

The second is a 30 minute programme from Teacher's TV called How Do They Do It In Sweden? (http://www.teachers.tv/video/12090) This one is really worth watching so, if we get a wet Bank Holiday weekend, reserve yourself half an hour with a cup or a glass of whatever you like to drink and sit back and watch in envy. Hi Arthur it,s me Ann glad i gave you this site that was really interesting discussion ann x:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[sarah707]

Have you seen the hits on this thread! :eek:

It's been a great debate.

I know it's been mentioned on a few other forums as well so maybe it's got people thinking ... :D

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Have you seen the hits on this thread! :eek:

It's been a great debate.

I know it's been mentioned on a few other forums as well so maybe it's got people thinking ... :D

I couldn't believe the number when I saw it and just came in to see other people's point of views.

I feel that it is a shame that depending on where you live decides on what support you get.

[Pipsqueak]

I couldn't believe the number when I saw it and just came in to see other people's point of views.

I feel that it is a shame that depending on where you live decides on what support you get.

It is a shame that there isn't the support systems out there for people - in the form of EY's peoples or CDO's etc BUT (and now I am really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons) - there are other sources of support that people can access - even in the form of books, internet, magazines, other childminders, nursery staff, playgroups, even the EYFS cd has quite a bit of information on it etc etc etc.

I am the sort of person who gets where the wind doesn't and I am quite forward in asking for help or having a nosey at other settings and picking their brains.

Its good that this thread has got people talking and tbh I enjoy the EYFS overall - I love delving into the research side of it (negative and positive) and making my own mind up about it all and seeing how it fits (or not) what I do.

[Allie]

The EYFS isn't perfect but neither was the lack of respect childminders used to enjoy.

When I started earning a good income from childminding 16/17 years ago every week someone would ask me when I was going to go back to work or refered to my earnings as pin money.

Now I enjoy the respect of local pre schools, schools, parents, family and friends who recognise the extra training and experience I have, no one mentions getting a proper job (and haven't done for some years)

Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image


Allie

[The Juggler]

Now I enjoy the respect of local pre schools, schools, parents, family and friends who recognise the extra training and experience I have, no one mentions getting a proper job (and haven't done for some years)

Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image


Allie[/QUOTE]



I agree. Though there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image.

[Mouse]

Though there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image.


This is what I was saying many posts ago!

For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings (though many of the still don't realise quite what we do :rolleyes: )

But there are childminders out there who really don't worry about their image and are happy to be seen as someone earning a bit of 'pin money'. It doesn't make them bad childminders.

[Mouse]

Have you seen the hits on this thread! :eek:

It's been a great debate.

I know it's been mentioned on a few other forums as well so maybe it's got people thinking ... :D


It's been a very enjoyable debate. I think everyone's views are respected, even though we don't all agree.

[Rach30]

.I do think the EYFS is better than what we had before (national standards) as it means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status. However as each childcare professional / setting is different (ie daycare nurserys are different to sessional care which is different to foundation classes in schools which is again different to childminders ) then EYFS is open to alot of interpretation , and quite rightly so IMO. I don't do much more than i did before eyfs was intorduced . A few extra policies , a couple more risk assessments but once they're done they're done . I used to do observations and work out what activities to do next but they were never written down . Now i do VERY simple obs / asssment / planning and like Debbs only spend about 10mins per month per child. there really is no need to over complicate things. I think the reason parents choose childminding over other types of childcare (apart from us being cheaper !lol) is because we are as near as damn it to the child being in there own home . And i think in these times when a lot of families need childcare because they have to work (through choice or nesescity) then childminding is really a very important service to provide. I have read somewhere of some reasearch done that proves that children who spend a large amount of time in a day nursery from a young age generally dont do as well as children who spent time at home with a parent. We are home from home . And it don't get much better than that !:thumbsup:

[Mouse]

I have read somewhere of some reasearch done that proves that children who spend a large amount of time in a day nursery from a young age generally dont do as well as children who spent time at home with a parent. We are home from home . And it don't get much better than that !:thumbsup:


So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

[Pipsqueak]

So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

Perhaps parents don't 'do' EYFS by the book - I know I don't with my own but I think we all do something similar. I know that I check that my child is developing and thriving, I make mental notes in my head that he likes this (this week), what we can do next - perhaps my brain processes stuff differently as a parent.

I prefer to look at it this way - the other (y'no pre-schools, nurseries etc) settings are being bought into line with home based childcare - which as we know is the best for children!:D

[Mouse]

Perhaps parents don't 'do' EYFS by the book - I know I don't with my own but I think we all do something similar. I know that I check that my child is developing and thriving, I make mental notes in my head that he likes this (this week), what we can do next - perhaps my brain processes stuff differently as a parent.

I prefer to look at it this way - the other (y'no pre-schools, nurseries etc) settings are being bought into line with home based childcare - which as we know is the best for children!:D


I agree. As parents we observe, assess & plan for our children, though not formally. We see our baby can roll over, next stage is to crawl, so we clear a space and spread toys around to encourage moving...observed, assessed & planned.

Isn't that basically what EYFS is? I think we all do it naturally anyway. So why the need for such a big 'scheme'? Why the need for evidence of it all? Do the children benefit anymore from it being a formal framework to follow than they do from it just being left to natural progression?

Personally I like EYFS. I'm the sort of (sad!) person who enjoys methodical paperwork, having folders set up, working to a plan etc. My argument though is that it isn't right for everyone & that it can't be shown that children actually benefit from it.

[clorogue]

Thank goodness to see people with my point of you - I certainly agree with a lot you say Mouse! THe children I look after have certainly not benefitted whatsoever from the EYFS. One thing for sure, it can't go on the way it is going on......watch this space.....

[Pipsqueak]

Yes but then don't you think there needs to be a standardisation across the board. There will be childminders out there doing EYFS and some who won't be- therefore you will have a two tier system working surely. Perhaps the good childminders will use the EYFS but then again maybe they won't - so then will children be disadvantaged, perhaps the good childminders are already usng an EYFS type of provision and cannot see any difference now - well good thats as it should be then.

Change happens in all types of jobs, things move forward and evolve - fact of life.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This is what I was saying many posts ago!

For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings (though many of the still don't realise quite what we do :rolleyes: )

But there are childminders out there who really don't worry about their image and are happy to be seen as someone earning a bit of 'pin money'. It doesn't make them bad childminders.

But is it good for the children? Do these childminders do regular training and know the latest information about child development.

I personally think that childcare is about the child and not about the adult.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

So, being at home with a parent is the best start for a child? So why are we all doing EYFS with them then? Doesn't it mean that children would be better served by offering a true home from home setting...how many parents follow EYFS? To me, a home from home setting doesn't include EYFS!

I think that Rachel is saying that home from home is a warm friendly environment with consistency of face and surroundings.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I agree. As parents we observe, assess & plan for our children, though not formally. We see our baby can roll over, next stage is to crawl, so we clear a space and spread toys around to encourage moving...observed, assessed & planned.

Isn't that basically what EYFS is? I think we all do it naturally anyway. So why the need for such a big 'scheme'? Why the need for evidence of it all? Do the children benefit anymore from it being a formal framework to follow than they do from it just being left to natural progression?

Personally I like EYFS. I'm the sort of (sad!) person who enjoys methodical paperwork, having folders set up, working to a plan etc. My argument though is that it isn't right for everyone & that it can't be shown that children actually benefit from it.

It doesn't state anywhere in the EYFS that there has to be written plans/obs/evidence that I can see and as long as the childminders who don't understand the EYFS (and I believe that this is the stumbling block) can verbally talk to the inspector then there isn't any need. Personally I couldn't do it and that is why for other childminders, like me, the paperwork is a necessity.

[Rach30]

Yes Debs that was what i was saying :) . Yes we do naturally all obs , assess , plan in our heads but unless we have someehitng on paper (mine is very brief lol) then how do parents know that we don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day ? . I do think there needs to be standardisation ascross the board otherwise , like pipsqueek says , we'll end up with a 2 tier system. EYFS really doesn't have to complicated ......Honest :D

[Mouse]

There will be childminders out there doing EYFS and some who won't be- therefore you will have a two tier system working surely.
Change happens in all types of jobs, things move forward and evolve - fact of life.


I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS, who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.


And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.

[Mouse]

It doesn't state anywhere in the EYFS that there has to be written plans/obs/evidence that I can see and as long as the childminders who don't understand the EYFS (and I believe that this is the stumbling block) can verbally talk to the inspector then there isn't any need. Personally I couldn't do it and that is why for other childminders, like me, the paperwork is a necessity.


I think we might already have covered this. I know there are very few things that we have to have written down, but in practice if you want a good grading (which most of us do), you are going to have to have paperwork in place.
I know you say that EYFS is about the children, not the adults, but if I am doing a good job I want official recognition for it. I do EYFS & have all the paperwork to back it up. I know I don't need to, but I wouldn't have got a good grade without it.

[Pipsqueak]

I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS, who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.


And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.


But that is exactly the point Mouse - EYFS will and is starting to weed out those childminders who only do the right noises and moves in front of Ofsted. So by doing EYFS it is giving you (me and the rest of us) the opportunity to be professional and those who can't be bothered (note I have said not bothered, not can't do or struggling) to even open their packs, go on training or even to actually understand about child development etc then yes, its showing you and me for what we are - good childminders. Arrrgghh think I am explaining this wrong.

As to us questioning it - ok then have you read the research behind it? As with anything there are pros and cons but some of the research is really quite good and informative.

[Mouse]

Yes Debs that was what i was saying :) . Yes we do naturally all obs , assess , plan in our heads but unless we have someehitng on paper (mine is very brief lol) then how do parents know that we don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day ? . I do think there needs to be standardisation ascross the board otherwise , like pipsqueek says , we'll end up with a 2 tier system. EYFS really doesn't have to complicated ......Honest :D


Even without paperwork my parents know that I don't plonk their children in front of the TV all day. I think the children would soon let on if that was the case! I don't need paperwork to show them what I do.

And even though EYFS has been in force since September, there are still childminders who don't follow it. Talking at our group I know there are many cm who keep saying they haven't even started on EYFS & I've seen people say it on this forum. EYFS clearly hasn't created standardisation.

[Mouse]

But that is exactly the point Mouse - EYFS will and is starting to weed out those childminders who only do the right noises and moves in front of Ofsted. So by doing EYFS it is giving you (me and the rest of us) the opportunity to be professional and those who can't be bothered (note I have said not bothered, not can't do or struggling) to even open their packs, go on training or even to actually understand about child development etc then yes, its showing you and me for what we are - good childminders. Arrrgghh think I am explaining this wrong.




But it isn't weeding them out. I have a friend who put on the act when Ofsted was coming & got graded Good. She didn't do EYFS before, made up the paperwork, then put it all away again when Ofsted had been. As she said, by the time they come again she'll have all new children, so will make it up again then!
She is a very popular childminder who has very happy children & parents. None of them are interested in EYFS and couldn't care less whether she does it or not. I bet she's not the only one like this.

Wouldn't it be better if these people could opt out of doing EYFS rather than lying about doing it?

[Mouse]

As to us questioning it - ok then have you read the research behind it? As with anything there are pros and cons but some of the research is really quite good and informative.


I admit that I have read very little about the research behind it. Even if it has good points though, who is to say that this is the ONLY way to do it?

[Pipsqueak]

Thats the beauty about research Mouse - it to make your own mind up about, search out stuff that is relevant to both sides of the argument, theory is open to interpretation. Ok I only know all this because I have done y1 FD but I have found it fascinating to link in what I was doing and why I was doing stuff (and why children do things) to some concrete theory and research. So much of it suddenly makes sense - well to me it does anyway. Its nice to know that what I have done with my own children and what I applied to mindees actually was the right tracks.

A lot of the newer research bears out established theory as well.

Of course its not the only way of doing things but who is to say that other countries and education systems are the right way. I think we all have a lot to learn from each other - perhaps one day we will all live in a perfect world where we get it right from the start.

Like you I know minders who say and do the right things in front of the right people at the right time but at the end of the day - they are cheating themselves, their clients, most of all the children and they WILL (and it will happen) come unstuck. I know that I work to the best of my abilities and offer a great service and I know that is reflected in my documentation and my verbal knowledge and my actions - and (I don't mean to sound bigheaded) I can far outshine these fair weather colleagues.

I certainly don't mean any of this to sound awful towards those minders who are wanting or willing to give EYFS a go and I will 100% each and every time give my support and assistance to these people. There is huge difference between those trying/wanting to do it and those who just can't be arsed.

EYFS is what you make of it

[Mouse]

Its nice to know that what I have done with my own children and what I applied to mindees actually was the right tracks.



So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now ;)

[clorogue]

And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.


Absolutely right Mouse! It isn't working for a lot of people, yes there are good things in the EYFS which I do completely naturally. I have just heard of two more childminders (and they are definitely good!) which are leaving today because of the paperwork. Yes we have to move forward and evolve but change has got to be for the better, the EYFS is too controversial for it to work for all childminders, but only time will tell.

[clorogue]

So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now ;)

So right again!! My son came up to me the other day when I was doing the paperwork (he is 14) and he said Mum the inspector just needs to talk and look at us and see what a good job you have done - it brought tears to my eyes! My parents aren't interested. They know the good job I am doing and I put my heart and soul into the children and their well-being in every respect when they are here and the parents know that.

I was speaking to an advisor the other day and she said that I had everything in place, much more than a lot of childminders in the area. I must admit that it made me feel a lot better, but what does that comment tell you!

[Pipsqueak]

So you don't really need the guidance of EYFS as you've got it right all along. You didn't need EYFS then, so why do you need it now ;)

As a childminder - I say that we do need loud and clear guidelines for EVERYBODY to be working to because otherwise you are going to get 2nd rate childcare from some places and that is not what Every Child Matters is all about. EVERY child does matter especially for those of us working in disadvantaged areas.
I don't just support the children, I often support families through various schemes and capacities and currently (in a normal childminding context) I have one parent who is not particuarly aware of EYFS but loves looking through the LJ and thinks its wonderful that I know so much about her child, the other parent is quite into all of this and it has reassured her that I am giving the best possible service (she has had quite a horrific time with an previous childminder).
Families I support, it gives me a clear basis on which to start helping these children and families and I can use EYFS to help the parents to start understanding their childs development.

As Debbie rightly says - its about the child, not the adult(s).

As a parent I am pleased to know that I am going along the same road - so it has given me clarfication.

Clorogue - why isn't it working for some people? Is it because they don't understand it through whatever reason do you think. Do you think the hype about it made people fear it more. Any big changes anywhere can so often rely on the attitudes towards its - I always find its easier to have a positive outlook and try to rise to the challenge before condeming something.
If people are doing tons of paperwork - its because they are doing too much. Great for those who enjoy the paperwork (and there are some of us;) ) and thats well and good for them but I honestly do believe EYFS is what you make of it.
Also what does your advisors comment say - to me it says you are doing all the right things and have risen to the challenge:clapping: as opposed to perhaps some other minders who are happy doing what they are doing. Yes time will tell won't it.

Any new system needs time to bed in, get reflected upon and change, improve or leave as necessary. Lets give it chance.

[Mouse]

I wonder if we'd have had the same debate when Birth to Three came into force...and I wonder if we'll have the same debate when the next new thing comes along :laughing: :laughing:

[Pipsqueak]

[QUOTE=Mouse;437948]I wonder if we'd have had the same debate when Birth to Three came into force...and I wonder if we'll have the same debate when the next new thing comes along :laughing: :laughing:[/QUOT

So true Mouse!!!:laughing: I have really enjoyed discussing this and its made really interesting reading as well. Thanks everyone:thumbsup:

[clorogue]

As a childminder - I say that we do need loud and clear guidelines for EVERYBODY to be working to because otherwise you are going to get 2nd rate childcare from some places and that is not what Every Child Matters is all about. EVERY child does matter especially for those of us working in disadvantaged areas.
I don't just support the children, I often support families through various schemes and capacities and currently (in a normal childminding context) I have one parent who is not particuarly aware of EYFS but loves looking through the LJ and thinks its wonderful that I know so much about her child, the other parent is quite into all of this and it has reassured her that I am giving the best possible service (she has had quite a horrific time with an previous childminder).
Families I support, it gives me a clear basis on which to start helping these children and families and I can use EYFS to help the parents to start understanding their childs developme

As Debbie rightly says - its about the child, not the adult(s).

As a parent I am pleased to know that I am going along the same road - so it has given me clarfication.

Clorogue - why isn't it working for some people? Is it because they don't understand it through whatever reason do you think. Do you think the hype about it made people fear it more. Any big changes anywhere can so often rely on the attitudes towards its - I always find its easier to have a positive outlook and try to rise to the challenge before condeming something.
If people are doing tons of paperwork - its because they are doing too much. Great for those who enjoy the paperwork (and there are some of us;) ) and thats well and good for them but I honestly do believe EYFS is what you make of it.
Also what does your advisors comment say - to me it says you are doing all the right things and have risen to the challenge:clapping: as opposed to perhaps some other minders who are happy doing what they are doing. Yes time will tell won't it.

Any new system needs time to bed in, get reflected upon and change, improve or leave as necessary. Lets give it chance.

I have only a few mins so quick reply - yes I think in some ways there has been a lot of hype about it making people fear it more. Also getting lots of conflicting information from different sources and not knowing whether you are doing it right or not. I think it scared people seeing a great big book come in the door - yes it did look daunting! I also think Ofsted don't make things clear and then it can get confusing again and then it is trying to keep up with the changes. Then people get demoralised. I have been on training courses where there is conflicting information and not matter how you try to embrace it, it just seems so much more work to try and work it out - going back and forward trying to work out what is right!

I have really been interested in this debate and I think Mouse has spoken up about alot about how childminders feel.

It will be interesting to see how things go. Of course it is about the children, that is so very important. But carers well being is so important too, if you have stressed childminders, it refects on the children and obviously they pick up on that which is of no benefit to the children. All our situations are unique I know. It is sad to see good childminders really good at their job being stressed and thinking of giving up.

Thanks for a great debate!

[Pipsqueak]

I have only a few mins so quick reply - yes I think in some ways there has been a lot of hype about it making people fear it more. Also getting lots of conflicting information from different sources and not knowing whether you are doing it right or not. I think it scared people seeing a great big book come in the door - yes it did look daunting! I also think Ofsted don't make things clear and then it can get confusing again and then it is trying to keep up with the changes. Then people get demoralised. I have been on training courses where there is conflicting information and not matter how you try to embrace it, it just seems so much more work to try and work it out - going back and forward trying to work out what is right!

I have really been interested in this debate and I think Mouse has spoken up about alot about how childminders feel.

It will be interesting to see how things go. Of course it is about the children, that is so very important. But carers well being is so important too, if you have stressed childminders, it refects on the children and obviously they pick up on that which is of no benefit to the children. All our situations are unique I know. It is sad to see good childminders really good at their job being stressed and thinking of giving up.

Thanks for a great debate!

Hah - since when has Ofsted been clear on anything:laughing: :laughing:

I do honestly feel for those good childminders who are stressed about all this - the genuine ones who are daunted by it (not simply can't be bothered) and that is why this site and I am sure its members would willingly help anyone out. I know I have offered time and again to some minders in my area.

I know Mouse has spoken up for all the minders who do feel that way but its about time that the minders who actually enjoy EYFS and fnd it ok are heard too. A while back GMTV didn't want to know and I seem to recall another programme wasn't interested either in the positive side of things.
Again all credit to this site and its members - a decent, human, discussion without resulting to insults or slurs:clapping:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I'd be quite happy with a two tier system and think this is how it should be. I work hard, follow EYFS & provide the best care I can for the children in my care. Why should I be on a level footing with childminders who still don't do EYFS,

The EYFS is there for the children and not the childcarer - the childcarer is judged by their grade

who still put children in front of the TV and who only do what they need to when Ofsted is due to visit?

If this was done and there wasn't a learning journey then Ofsted would pick it up


If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be. I know I wouldn't - I'd have the drive & determination to get myself as near the top of the top tier as I could. Not everyone would want that though & that's where I think the choice should come into it.

Is this in the best interest of the child or the childminder?

And I agree that jobs change, but think of any other self employed occupation. If there was suddenly a huge change that they had to comply with, I bet there would be uproar. For childminders we all just go along with what Ofsted say without questioning whether or not it's right for us or the children.

If the childcarers had been following the B-3 which is far more complicated than the EYFS then they wouldn't have so much to do

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I think we might already have covered this. I know there are very few things that we have to have written down, but in practice if you want a good grading (which most of us do), you are going to have to have paperwork in place.
I know you say that EYFS is about the children, not the adults, but if I am doing a good job I want official recognition for it. I do EYFS & have all the paperwork to back it up. I know I don't need to, but I wouldn't have got a good grade without it.

So other childminders should feel the same - put the work in and get the grade and they should stop bitching about it if they don't

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I agree with others - great debate and nice that it is civil and coherent.

Well done everyone

Mouse - I think we are saying the same thing but in different ways

[Daftbat]

I have read this thread with interest and have seen a few comments regarding parents not being interested in EYFS.

In my own setting the parents have given me a very enthustiastic response and welcomed the information i have provided.

Some are more interested than others in the observations i do but the evidence i gather which shows Ofsted about the learning journeys has been very beneficial to working parents who have said that they sometimes feel they miss out on what their children are doing.

I have always considered my self to be a "good" childminder and have always had a good working relationship with parents. I do think though that EYFS has re-inforced this and made me put in place structures which has improved the flow of communication with parents and given them the opportunity to discuss things more openly with me.

In addition, the daily diaries etc are more professionally put together and contain inofrmation and photos which the children will hopefully look back on and enjoy in the future, along with their parents.

[Arthur]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

[Tups]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community. Hi Arthur Pat is an excellent childminder i no that. for 20 years she has never been without children the same as me. and its a shame if we both have to give it up xx:thumbsup:

[Mouse]

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.


Shame on you Arthur, I was quite supportive of you until you said that.

The children in my care are always my first priority, but I see nothing wrong with using EYFS to present a more professional image for myself.

I find it quite insulting that you are saying some of us do not put the children first.

[CountryKids]

Haven't read the entire thread, but what saddens me is that there doesn't seem to be exemption for Steiner or Montessori settings - Independent Schools don't have to follow the NC because the State doesn't pay for them, well the State doesn't pay self employed child minders either - I'd like to be setting up a Steiner early years setting, but as far as I can tell, it's not possible.

[Pipsqueak]

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.


No one has implied that a childminder not doing EYFS is a second rate childminder! And as to your second statement - well I am sorry but shame on you Arthur - that is an awful thing to imply - that a childminder who enjoys their (more) professional status does not have the childrens welfare as their first and foremost concern. I was really quite interested in your comments until that uncalled for and rather unnecessary comment. Your last two comments could be taken as quite inflammatory so I am quite shocked.

I AM a professional childcare provider who has the welfare of the children in here care as her driving force to better and better herself and service - just ask any of the parents -past and present. So in your eyes - very obviously IMO you choose to look down on the childminders who choose to consider themselves professional??? Do you look down on the nursery/pre-school staff as well? Or in fact anyone who chooses to consider themselves a professional - a doctor is a professional - so you equate that to the doctor not having his patients best interests at heart?

Shame on you Arthur.

[ORKSIE]

Must admit I find these comments rather upsetting.
I, like a lot of people found the EYFS very daunting. But now i've got my head around it i really enjoy it and i feel i have something to show for all the hard work I do. Plus the children love there ROA's and love showing them off to mum & dad.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.

I am confused - what is wrong with wanting to be a professional?

I think that what Pat has done here is the EYFS and she hasn't had to do any obs because you have done them for her :laughing:

I think it is different perceptions of how things are done.

Glad everyone had a good week - I myself spent most of last week in the sun at the park and picnicing

[Daftbat]

Well, what a lot of postings since I last looked at this thread.

Anyway, this week Pat has had 2 sisters aged nearly 4 and nearly 2. It is still half term so the older girl was not in playgroup, which meant that there was no to-ing and fro-ing to playgroup and the day was theirs to do with what they will. They have been out every day to the park (we live near a long linear park that follows a canal and stretches for miles) with both girls walking everywhere and feeding the ducks, swans and geese; looking at the baby ducks; picking flowers; playing on the bandstand; playing on the various slides and swings that are dotted about the park; watching the tractor that had broken down be taken away on a low loader; and talking about this, that and the other. They also visited and played with friends and went to the charity shop to see if there were any cheap, but good second hand toys to buy. Back at home, so that the younger girl can have a sleep, they have been having quiet times and also playing on the slides and climbing frame in the garden, doing sticking and glueing, drawing, making a birthday card for one of Pat's previous mindees (who will be 21 next week), watering the plants and making wet footprints on the drive plus lots more. I know because every night I uploaded the photographs to the PC, some of which will be emailed to the parents and all of which will be put onto CDs for the parents to keep. One night I even came home to find a giant clown's face on the back lawn made out of ball pond balls and using various other things for the ears and eyes. The elder girl had also taken some photographs of the clown's face she had made.

And all of this was done quite spontaneously with activities naturally leading to other activities. There was no plan, no formal observing, no recording (apart from the photographs), no cross referencing to which of the 6 areas of learning and development each activity covered, no assessment of where the girls are in their 'learning journey' and no further planning of what needs to be done next to build on what has just been learned. Each night, the collecting parent was told what had happened that day (by both Pat and the 2 girls where possible). Later that night, while the girls are having their bath, the girls would discuss with their parents as best they can, what they did with their day. And everyone was happy. Whether Ofsted will be happy remains to be seen, but they don't pay Pat's wages, do they?

Now try and tell me that a childminder who isn't doing the EYFS is a second rate childminder.

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.


Oh dear Arthur, its a shame that you can't see the wood for the trees.

The children in your wifes care are obviously having a great time as are the children in my care. Just because i spend my own time preparing a portfolio for each child which the parent can read and talk about with the child both that same day or at some point in the future does not make me shameful!

The parents i work for are eager to receive diaries which they can peruse with their children promoting interesting discussions. EYFS and traditional playing, exploring, learning and enjoyment are not mutually exclusive!

As another poster has mentioned, you had my support in a lot of the things you said but sadly you have now lost it. There is nothing wrong with having your own opinions but to try and force others in to your way of thinking by insulting them is not the way forward.

[Roseolivia]

PS To anyone who has said or implied in this thread that they like the EYFS because it makes them more professional: Shame on you. Your first priority should be the children in your care, not your own standing in the pre-school community.[/QUOTE]

I think this comment is quite unfair. A lot of minders agreed or sympathised with you and your wife on your beliefs of EYFS (i as one of them) but i think you have now lost the respect of many of these after this comment. A lot of these minders do all the paperwork in their own family time to enhance their care of the children that they mind. I for one hate all the paperwork and do as little as i need to but i agree some of the parerwork is useful e.g daily diaries, photos. I'm sorry you feel that these minders don't put the children first but i know from reading threads on this forum the children always come first. I think you could spend your time better 'having a go' at the government rather than attacking the minders on here.

[Mouse]

What a pity that an otherwise excellent, respectful discussion has turned slightly sour towards the end :(

[Pipsqueak]

What a pity that an otherwise excellent, respectful discussion has turned slightly sour towards the end :(

Perhaps if new posters took the time to explore other parts of the forum they would see that we are professional providers who care deeply about the children we care for.:rolleyes:

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I haven't sat on the sidelines and complained, I've dug in to try and sort some of the muddle out. After the response to the Open-Eye petition which was:-

"The only statutory requirement to write anything down is that practitioners must complete an EYFS Profile for each child in the year in which they turn five – reception class at primary school for most children. This is intended to help inform future policy, and to support teachers in understanding children’s needs when they enter Key Stage 1 of primary school"

I was "gobsmacked" after going on several courses and being told of all the planning I was now supposed to do and the "Learning Journey" roled out by our LA - I wrote to OFSTED and got this reply:-

"I am sorry that you are concerned about the amount of paperwork childminders are expected to complete to deliver the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS). The EYFS in general does not expect childminders to have written policies and procedures except where the specific legal requirements does not exclude them The EYFS profile is one such case, and there are a few others such as the need to keep a written record of medication administered; and a record of accidents and first aid treatment. This is no different to the previous National Standards. "

Can someone then please explain to me why perfectly good childminders are being harrassed by OFSTED inspectors to do planning and observations? Some may answer that they would get a satisfactory and that would be achieving the necessary grade for those who don't want to do paperwork, but after reading a newsletter from Essex County Council giving tips to childminders on sucessful inspections and things that OFSTED had picked up on included: an "Action Point" was given (with an action date to be done by - so a formal warning) to a childminder telling them to "Plan an educational programme which enables children to make progress towards the early learning goals" and for another a notice to improve "ensure policies and procedures are regularly reviewed and updated in line with current legislation" and "devise and implement and equal ops policy" - THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE STATUTORY - I still feel very strongly that it has not yet been delivered correctly, including the issue with 4/5 year olds in reception.

Then today reported in the Guardian it reveals a six-year decline in the number of carers looking after under-eights, with the level dropping from 70,000 in 2003 to 60,900 in March this year. In the last 12 months there has been a more dramatic decline, with a loss of 4,000 childminders.

Sarah McCarthy-Fry, the schools minister, said: "It is nonsense to suggest that childminders are leaving the profession in droves as a result of the Early Years Foundation Stage. The EYFS is not a burden on childminders and most of them will be familiar with it because it's what they are already doing – helping children learn and develop through play.

Sorry ladies (and gents) I understand many are getting along OK but many damn good childminders who just can't cope have already left because of the EYFS and many are preparing to, and if the government continue to stick their heads in the sand I feel many more will leave.

I have done lots of training, but after a 50 hour week my weekends are precious and I am fed up with having to do it in my own time. (I am the local childcare have no family locally - husband works akward hours - so really struggle) Teachers are not required to - they have teacher training days, and nursery's and pre-schools have staff to cover. At the last Safeguarding training I went on I found it really biased towards larger group settings, we should be treated as an individual type of childcare - have our own systems implemented which suit us. I do think we need to stand and up and be counted, god knows what they will make us do next if we don't.

Sorry its long and ranting - great forum

[Arthur]

I am very sorry that my final comment upset you in the way it did, but both I and Pat thought that there was an underlying subtext in your comments that implied that childminders who do the EYFS are more professional than those who don't and that childminders who don't do the EYFS are somehow failing the children in their care.

Now before you all get angry again, let's take a look at some of your comments from this thread that gave us that impression:

Mouse: "I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter."

Pipsqueak: "the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys [type of childminder]"

DebbieS26: "If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it"

huggableshelly: "those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either"

DebbieS26: "When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course .... it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS?"

Mouse: "I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't."

Allie: "Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image"

The Juggler: "there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image"

Mouse: "For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings"

Rach30: "[the EYFS] means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status"

Mouse: "I'd be quite happy with a two tier system .... If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be"

Pipsqueak: "by doing EYFS it is giving you the opportunity to be professional"

And from the 'What Do You Like About the EYFS?' thread:

DebbieS26: "I like it because it makes me more professional in the approach to my job through planning"

Mouse: "I do think that it's helping to raise the profile of childminders. People who understand what's involved in EYFS are starting to respect the fact that we're doing so much more than babysitting"

Pipsqueak: "it pushes me up into the professional realms with all the other settings now - I am being taken seriously"

So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently.

[uf353432]

I've read the whole thread - from start to finish its taken me over an hour and its been really interesting to read.

I registered after EYFS was already in place - so I don't know any other way. I have to admit I really fretted about EYFS more over I worried about observations. What did I know about child development? I was just a mum of 2 no formal qualifications in childcare.

Since the birth of both my children I have kept a diary for each of them, I noted down special moments in their life, exciting developments, interesting things, pictures they had drawn, photo's I have taken - something for them to look back on as they got older, answer questions. On a day to day basis I would ensure I made available certain toys in line with their interests or go out and buy something because I thought it would be the logical next step. We'd go out to playgroups, take walks, go to the park, feed the ducks and have picnics in nice weather. We'd spend the afternoon playing in Toysrus, just because thats what they wanted to do.

The lightbulb moment for me is that in a nutshell is all the EYFS is. The only difference between the diary I keep for my daughters and the diary I keep for my mindee's is the mindee's have coloured stickers which link in with the EYFS L&D. The diary is not for my benefit, its for the parents and the child. I showed my mindee's diary to his mum today - she looked at it saying how wonderful - she felt so detached from him when he was with me - and seeing the pictures and the description of what he was up to made her connect. The coloured stickers were almost secondary - it was a snapshot of my mindee, a keepsake and momento.

I don't do this to keep up with the Jones', I do this because as a mum its the standard I would expect from a childminder. I think there is a massive difference in a child discussing a fun day out and a parent seeing a picture of their child on a fun day out, and a discussion arrising from a photo is much more 2 way as the parent can visualise the activity etc.

My oldest was with a much respected childminder for 2 and half years, pre EYFS. On her last day my childminder presented me with a photo album of all the pictures she took of my daughter for the time together. I would say that my childminder had been doing the EYFS with her - documenting and recording the activities for the time together.

Is the EYFS right for children? is their an alterior motive from government? will it change? evolve? who knows, right now this is what is expected from me and I deliver it how I see is best within my setting. I also challenge anyone who says that I am wrong to want to be regarded as a professional because I do my job to the best of my ability. Professionalism is not just about following guidelines, its about who you are and how you deliver your service.

Debs

[Daftbat]

Arthur, I think i speak for a large number of childminders on here when i say that i think an apology is due. To think you can pass judgement on their practices when you have never even met or seen exactly how they operate is downright illogical as well as wrong.

We have been very respectful to both you and your wife regarding her issues with Ofsted and the EYFS and we expect the same in return.

I await your reply.

[Tups]

:laughing:
I am confused - what is wrong with wanting to be a professional?

I think that what Pat has done here is the EYFS and she hasn't had to do any obs because you have done them for her :laughing:

I think it is different perceptions of how things are done.

Glad everyone had a good week - I myself spent most of last week in the sun at the park and picnicing Nice one Debbie :laughing: :laughing: please please can i use it for an obs you no i need lots of help :jump for joy:

[ORKSIE]

I still dont see why we should not want to be counted as professionals in childcare.
I have been doing my job for 15yrs and I am very proud of the way I have built up my childcare setting.
I personally enjoy doing EYFS, I have just completed level 3 and now am looking into furthering my education in childcare. I feel I am a professional in my field, and proud of it.
If people decide not to enter into EYFS or expand their knowledge then that is up to them.(i'm not saying that you dont want to expand your knowledge)
I dont know you or your wife, therefore I cannot make any comment about you.

[Pipsqueak]

I am very sorry that my final comment upset you in the way it did, but both I and Pat thought that there was an underlying subtext in your comments that implied that childminders who do the EYFS are more professional than those who don't and that childminders who don't do the EYFS are somehow failing the children in their care.

Now before you all get angry again, let's take a look at some of your comments from this thread that gave us that impression:

Mouse: "I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter."

Pipsqueak: "the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys [type of childminder]"

DebbieS26: "If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it"

huggableshelly: "those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either"

DebbieS26: "When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course .... it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS?"

Mouse: "I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't."

Allie: "Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image"

The Juggler: "there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image"

Mouse: "For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings"

Rach30: "[the EYFS] means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status"

Mouse: "I'd be quite happy with a two tier system .... If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be"

Pipsqueak: "by doing EYFS it is giving you the opportunity to be professional"

And from the 'What Do You Like About the EYFS?' thread:

DebbieS26: "I like it because it makes me more professional in the approach to my job through planning"

Mouse: "I do think that it's helping to raise the profile of childminders. People who understand what's involved in EYFS are starting to respect the fact that we're doing so much more than babysitting"

Pipsqueak: "it pushes me up into the professional realms with all the other settings now - I am being taken seriously"

So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently.


Arthur - you have taken a LOT of time and trouble to browse the forum and pick up comments made by people who are proud to be a childminder AND are delivering a fantastic service and I for one find it quite insulting that you have taken so many of these comments and used them to try to 'prove your point' . Which in actual fact doesn't do you any favours tbh.

Yes a professional status is important to me - I have worked damned hard to get here - just as a doctor, dentist, teacher or any other professional does. I have put in the time to ensure that my service is continually improved, that my horizons are expanded and therefore the outcomes for children and their families. Learning is knowledge and we can all carry on learning - once you think you know it all then you might as well get out of your game. Your attitude is quite insulting. I base my service on what I would want from a childminder if my kids were at one. It just so happens that EYFS is the in thing at the moment - I choose to make the best of it and I actually happen to be quite supportive of it BUT that does not make me any less of a good childminder just because I want to be recognised by the wider community as a professional.


Sounds like you are a terrific source of help and support to Pat - not all of us are lucky enough to have an extra pair of hands like this - I know my hubby certainly doesn't have time to be as involved as you appear to be, although he is great with the kids and extremely supportive and proud of the work.
I don't do what I do - for your approval or even Ofsteds approval I do it because I honestly believe in what I do, it really matters to me and the only approval I find gratifying is knowing that the children in my care are happy, safe and well cared for - something backed up by parents and childrens comments. BUT in saying all that - I really really appreciated being on the same level as the rest of the childcare workforce now. I always have been but the EYFS has levelled the playing field.


Have you BOTHERED to read the rest of the forum and join in where you will see that for each and everyone of us - the outcomes and service we provide is paramount in our outlooks in ensuring that the children have the best. So far this has been a very civil discussion without the need to resort to introducing personal assumptions and slurs and it is not appreciated that you choose to come on here and do this - reasoned argument and discussion is welcomed but sweeping statements is not.

This forum is not just about the EYFS - its about supporting each other, sharing good and best practice, a place to let of steam and have fun. So I have a suggestion for you - get involved in the rest of the forum and get to know us before you feel you can assume anything about any one of us.


PROUD TO BE A GOOD CHILDMINDER DELIVERING THE EYFS - PROUD TO BE A PROFESSIONAL CHILDCARE PROVIDER.

[Mouse]

Well done Arthur, it must have taken you a great deal of time to read through the whole thread & select just certain sentences that 'seem' to prove your point. I actually fail to see how any of those points show that we put our own professionalism above the care of the children.

You have managed to insult many very good, professional childminders by presuming to know how we work & what our priorities are.

We have a had a great debate here about the pros & cons of EYFS. The debate was fair & respectful and because of this many forum members said how they were happy to join in and say what they think knowing that it wasn't going to result in anyone having a go at them. The mud slinging has only started since you joined in.

Please don't suggest that you & Pat have the children's interests at heart any more than the rest of us do. If Pat decides that presenting a professional image is not for her, then fine. It works for her & I would not dream of suggesting this makes her any less of a good childminder, as you have tried to suggest with us.

[angeldelight]

I think this has been a great debate

Like or hate it though for whatever reasons - EYFS is here to stay so you can talk about it till the cows come home its not going to change a thing

It would be nice for Pat to come on and give her own views though

Angel xx

[Daftbat]

Well, Arthur, Still waiting for that apology which i feel is even more justified now.

Take things out of context all you want but notice that no one has criticised your wife for her methods whereas you are very quick to criticise people you don't even know. We here on this forum prefer to be supportive to one another providing constructive criticism only.

If you and Pat have it all sorted there seems no reall need for you to be a part of our gathering, furthermore, you may well ask for opinions but you are certainly not ready to listen to them. We on the other hand have been very supportive of some of your arguments.

If i were you i would just apologise and leave.

[Arthur]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?

[Pipsqueak]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?

Yes you apologised and then you went on to further imply - quite uncalled for in my opinion:
'So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently'. What you are attempting to imply is extremely clear. Can I presume that Pat is sat alongside you and reads the forum as well? I do find your support of Pat very admirable I do say.

I repeat you have trawled the forum for quotes that appear quite relevant to your argument but you have taken MANY of them out of context and have gone one to imply by using this quotes that the children's welfare was not our primary concern. How awful of you. You obviously cannot see the woods for the trees about how and what you are saying.

Arthur - take the time to join in the rest of the forum for goodness sake - again I repeat this forum and its childminders lives and working practices DO NOT revolve around EYFS. We support each other - not make assumptions or trash each other in what otherwise is a tough, demanding and challenging (and potentially quite lonely) job.

If you stick around long enough or have the curiosity to investigate further perhaps you and Pat might pick up some wonderful ideas or even have some that you can share (I am sure a longstanding and experienced childminder such as Pat would have some terrific ideas that she could share to help and inform practice), you could become part of a thriving online community that is close, fun and caring. (Each and everyone of us is here because we care). You might even come across instances of where EYFS IS working - why and how - proving a point for some of us that it is not burdensome, cumbersome, unecessary or whatever.

[Mouse]

You will find the apology at post #121 and nowhere in my post previous to that did I say that any of you weren't good childminders. How could I possibly suggest that without knowing how you work?


But you did suggest that Arthur. You said shame on us for not putting the children first. You implied that we weren't as good as Pat as the children are obvioulsy her first priority, but not ours. You then quoted our own words at us to 'prove' that we are more interested in our own images than in the children we care for.
As you say Arthur, you don't know how we work, yet it didn't stop you making some very wrong assumptions and making a very insulting accusation.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Can I ask Arthur why you and Pat are against the principals and content of the EYFS?

[FussyElmo]

Been reading this thread with interest not commented before as someone has usually said it. But I must say Arthur I am disappointed that because I like to a professional childcarer that you assume this means more to me. Well it doesnt and NEVER will, the children are the main priority, as they are for all us.


But I know that I can come on this forum and ask questions about anything including the EYFS and one of these (usually) complete strangers will do they best to answer. They will not make me feel stupid, useless or insult me but will try their best to answer.

Thank you to each and everyone of you. Hoping Arthur that you will do the same.

[Pipsqueak]

Exemption from EYFS learning goals is rejected

By Catherine Gaunt, Nursery World, 20 May 2009

Mrs Adams told Nursery World, 'I am not giving up childminding immediately but will continue working in the same way and will wait until my next Ofsted inspection and see what the outcome of that will be. If Ofsted downgrade me to inadequate I will be extremely upset, because I know their decision will be based on paperwork and not on the quality of my childcare.'

She said she knew of at least three other childminders with similar views to herself who would be prepared to leave the profession if they are downgraded in their Ofsted inspections.

She added, 'Parents just want someone to look after their children and know that they are safe and cared for. They don't want formal learning - they want a home-from-home environment. '




Ok point one - I know an Outstanding childminder who doesn't do walloping great reams of paperwork- she does the bare minimum required. She has 4 (I think ) written policies - Safeguarding/Welfare, Health, Inclusion and can't remember the other on off hand - they are sturdy policies I must say and incorporate a fair bit but hers only stretch to 15 pages total (whereas mine are about 50 pages long). She is a damned good childminder - her Ofsted inpection under EYFS reflects this. She has gained outstanding in her last 3 inspections - proof that it can be done.

Why on earth would you be downgraded if you can prove/show that you are doing a good job. Again the childminder I mention doesn't have reams of paperwork. By her own admission she only does approx 20/30 minutes each day of paperwork during her working week - never on a weekend.


Because its all too easy to 'rise to the occasion' on the day (as I know some childminders who I wouldn't leave my binbag with let alone a child - can do) - anyone could do it I don't see that a few photo's and a few lines of writing would do anyone any harm.


As to saying that parents only want someone to look after their child and aren't bothered about the the formal learning aspects

a) its NOT formal learning and if you consider it to be then you misunderstand the EYFS

b) NOT all parents aren't bothered - again its making sweeping assumptions. Point proven today- have just signed up a new child (admittedly out of the EYFS) and his mother paid me a lovely compliment - telling me that they will be moving in about 18months time but she already thinks I will be a hard act to follow and that I 'very obviously care deeply for the children' and that I run a 'very professional and competent outfit' - (doesn't that blow Arthurs assumption out of the water!!!). The compliment made me blush but it made me very proud that my professionalism and caring shone through. Mum was very impressed that I wanted to go and meet his teacher and make an introduction and the teacher was quite surprised too - saying that it was great to have contact with 'other outside professionals in this manner.
Why did I want to meet the teacher - out of courtesy yes and so I knew where I was going but also so I can start building a relationship with her so that I can deliver the best possible service for this child. Mum liked the fact that I was interested in his school life.

[Daftbat]

Today i went to collect 2 children from nursery school. The nursery teacher called me over to ask a favour and she gave me some documentation which was to be passed to the parent. This included the childs first reading book, introduction to reading itself, details of the "jolly phonics" methods of teaching.

The parent had been due to meet with the nursery teacher to discuss this but at the last minute the parent had had to cancel because her car broke down.

The teacher asked me to pass the information over and wondered if i might explain to the parent how the system with reading records etc worked and what the jolly phonics technique was based upon. She was apologetic that i was being asked but she said openly that she knew that as a childminder following EYFS i would be equally capable of explaining to the parent and whilst she was available whenever needed she wanted the child to get started with the reading programme without further delay.

Having reflected upon this i am very flattered that she felt able to pass this responsibility to me in the knowledge that the parent would get the right information. She had the best interests of the child at heart and as i look after the child every day it was sensible choice. The teacher was not shirking her responsibilities as she made it plain that she was available to the parent at any time, instead she was being sensible and using the EYFS "network" to get information across to the parent.

Having embraced EYFS i have been in more formal contact with the local nursery school and we have shared ideas and information beneficial to the children we all care for. This has resulted in the above.

I still do all the things that "Mrs Arthur" does with the children and consider my setting to be a home from home for the children. I would be in human however if i did not feel some satisfaction that i was not being looked upon as a baby sitter and that i am doing a responsible job, in fact THE most responsible job in the world.

[ORKSIE]

Ok point one - I know an Outstanding childminder who doesn't do walloping great reams of paperwork- she does the bare minimum required. She has 4 (I think ) written policies - Safeguarding/Welfare, Health, Inclusion and can't remember the other on off hand - they are sturdy policies I must say and incorporate a fair bit but hers only stretch to 15 pages total (whereas mine are about 50 pages long). She is a damned good childminder - her Ofsted inpection under EYFS reflects this. She has gained outstanding in her last 3 inspections - proof that it can be done.

Why on earth would you be downgraded if you can prove/show that you are doing a good job. Again the childminder I mention doesn't have reams of paperwork. By her own admission she only does approx 20/30 minutes each day of paperwork during her working week - never on a weekend.


Because its all too easy to 'rise to the occasion' on the day (as I know some childminders who I wouldn't leave my binbag with let alone a child - can do) - anyone could do it I don't see that a few photo's and a few lines of writing would do anyone any harm.


As to saying that parents only want someone to look after their child and aren't bothered about the the formal learning aspects

a) its NOT formal learning and if you consider it to be then you misunderstand the EYFS

b) NOT all parents aren't bothered - again its making sweeping assumptions. Point proven today- have just signed up a new child (admittedly out of the EYFS) and his mother paid me a lovely compliment - telling me that they will be moving in about 18months time but she already thinks I will be a hard act to follow and that I 'very obviously care deeply for the children' and that I run a 'very professional and competent outfit' - (doesn't that blow Arthurs assumption out of the water!!!). The compliment made me blush but it made me very proud that my professionalism and caring shone through. Mum was very impressed that I wanted to go and meet his teacher and make an introduction and the teacher was quite surprised too - saying that it was great to have contact with 'other outside professionals in this manner.
Why did I want to meet the teacher - out of courtesy yes and so I knew where I was going but also so I can start building a relationship with her so that I can deliver the best possible service for this child. Mum liked the fact that I was interested in his school life.
I am not making any comment on the childminder in this post, I dont know her, but...
I got a "good" I have policies in place, I do EYFS, really well, Mrs OFSTED commented on them her self!. I have risk assessments in place, I did not have a Written risk assessment for outings...I got an ACTION! on my report, which was rectified as soon as I recieved my report! Why the heck do I bother!! Seems to me it comes down to who you get on the day, I am appealing against my report, because I feel I have been treated unfairly.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I am not making any comment on the childminder in this post, I dont know her, but...
I got a "good" I have policies in place, I do EYFS, really well, Mrs OFSTED commented on them her self!. I have risk assessments in place, I did not have a Written risk assessment for outings...I got an ACTION! on my report, which was rectified as soon as I recieved my report! Why the heck do I bother!! Seems to me it comes down to who you get on the day, I am appealing against my report, because I feel I have been treated unfairly.

A lot of people are getting caught out on this but it is in the book and a requirement. You have to do one for each outing too which takes up a bit more time but like policies once it is done it is done.

[ORKSIE]

A lot of people are getting caught out on this but it is in the book and a requirement. You have to do one for each outing too which takes up a bit more time but like policies once it is done it is done.

I agree Debbie, but a childminder in my area did not have a R/A for her Garden! and got OUTSTANDING, she got a recommendation for this.
I have spoken to my Network adviser and she agrees its not fair.
Its the inconsistancies that I find really annoying.

[Pipsqueak]

Totall agree SLC - there are some terrible inconsistecies - so much depends upon the inspector you get -if they got out the right side of the bed that morning, if you click with them when they come toyou etc etc.
I support several new minders - two of them work closely together and have very very similar paperwork and working methods - one got a good in all areas the other got satisfactory. The only thing I can think of is that one is well-spoken and articuate and very calm (can say the right things to questions) the other isn't. Same inspector!

I will point out - the outstanding cm does have ALL relevant and necessary paperwork.

[ORKSIE]

Totall agree SLC - there are some terrible inconsistecies - so much depends upon the inspector you get -if they got out the right side of the bed that morning, if you click with them when they come toyou etc etc.
I support several new minders - two of them work closely together and have very very similar paperwork and working methods - one got a good in all areas the other got satisfactory. The only thing I can think of is that one is well-spoken and articuate and very calm (can say the right things to questions) the other isn't. Same inspector!

I will point out - the outstanding cm does have ALL relevant and necessary paperwork.
Pip you are so right, this CM has the "gift of the gab" I on the other hand know what do di and what is required, but if you put me on the spot I get tongue tied, and my mind goes a blank!
Mind you can you believe that when you see how many posts I have on here:laughing:

[Mouse]

I agree a lot with what you're saying. We're forever being told that Ofsted are looking for the 'wow factor', but no one can tell you what the wow factor is!

I do wonder if it's the personality on the childminder that gives the 'wow'. Not fair really for those fab minders who freeze in front of an inspector.

[mrs c]

Pip you are so right, this CM has the "gift of the gab" I on the other hand know what do di and what is required, but if you put me on the spot I get tongue tied, and my mind goes a blank!
Mind you can you believe that when you see how many posts I have on here:laughing:

But isnt that the way of things. When on here you are much more relaxed. Having someone in your home inspecting you is intense and makes most ppl get tongue tied. Its like going into panic mode.:panic:

[Daftbat]

When i got outstanding i was told by the inspector that it was for a number of things:

having good, easy to follow paperwork;
going the extra mile offering lots of activities at children's level so that they could access things when ever they wanted as well as planned activities;
being fully inclusive in everything the children were doing;
and being forward thinking - forever thinking about what could be improved/changed/added to.

Probably not much help to anyone as i know inspectors views vary widely but i did think that she had picked up on the things that i thought i did well, and that she was appreciative of how hard it is to be outstanding AND run your own home. She herself said she didn't think she would be able to do it!!!

[Chatterbox Childcare]

A lot of people are getting caught out on this but it is in the book and a requirement. You have to do one for each outing too which takes up a bit more time but like policies once it is done it is done.

I know it seems unfair and I do agree but the EYFS book states that you need a RA for outings but the house is not compulsory

[sarah707]

I know it seems unfair and I do agree but the EYFS book states that you need a RA for outings but the house is not compulsory

While I agree with what you are saying Debbie, I know of at least 3 childminders who were given satisfactory gradings for keeping children safe because they did not have written risk assessments of the house and garden. The wording of their reports also made it clear the inspector was unimpressed...

The Eyfs says that we should risk assess everything the children come into contact with... and then goes on to talk about the things we should risk assess in the guidance booklet (there's a long list).

While it does not use the word 'written' it is strongly advisable that you do write them, so you can prove you have done them. :D

[Rach30]

I am very sorry that my final comment upset you in the way it did, but both I and Pat thought that there was an underlying subtext in your comments that implied that childminders who do the EYFS are more professional than those who don't and that childminders who don't do the EYFS are somehow failing the children in their care.

Now before you all get angry again, let's take a look at some of your comments from this thread that gave us that impression:

Mouse: "I don't see why there can't be another type of childcare (not called a childminder), that is basically a step or so above a babysitter."

Pipsqueak: "the sit down, drink your coffee and plonk the kids in front of the tv/on the living room floor with a box of toys [type of childminder]"

DebbieS26: "If people want to "Professionals" then inevitably there is some work to go with it"

huggableshelly: "those who object to EYFS obviously do not understand it well enough ..... but also are not prepared to understand it either"

DebbieS26: "When Birth-3 came in I did an extended course .... it made me a better professional and I am sure everyone on the forum is the same but can this be said of others who don't like the EYFS?"

Mouse: "I would be happy to see a scheme whereby childminders can chose whether or not to do EYFS. Those who chose to can claim the funding, those who chose not to can't."

Allie: "Being a professional means something to me and complying with EYFS commitments is part of that professional image"

The Juggler: "there are a lot of childminders who don't appear to want that respect or be seen as childcare professionals, they are happy with the old image"

Mouse: "For those of us who want to present a more professional image, EYFS is putting us on a more even footing with other settings"

Rach30: "[the EYFS] means that all childcare professionals are working to the same standards and levells of care. I think this gives childminders a more professional status"

Mouse: "I'd be quite happy with a two tier system .... If there was a two tier system you'd only be in the bottom tier if you chose to be"

Pipsqueak: "by doing EYFS it is giving you the opportunity to be professional"

And from the 'What Do You Like About the EYFS?' thread:

DebbieS26: "I like it because it makes me more professional in the approach to my job through planning"

Mouse: "I do think that it's helping to raise the profile of childminders. People who understand what's involved in EYFS are starting to respect the fact that we're doing so much more than babysitting"

Pipsqueak: "it pushes me up into the professional realms with all the other settings now - I am being taken seriously"

So, rightly or wrongly, it seemed to us that for some of you, your professional status was more important to you. You may, of course, think differently.

I've been quoted !!!!! and i just started to explain myself but deleted it all because why the hell should i justify myself . Yes i am professional because i care for children well . EYFS helps me do this. And most people understand this. To be a childminder you HAVE to comply with EYFS. Its a fact. Don't like it ? well don't do the damn job then. :angry:

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I've been quoted !!!!! and i just started to explain myself but deleted it all because why the hell should i justify myself . Yes i am professional because i care for children well . EYFS helps me do this. And most people understand this. To be a childminder you HAVE to comply with EYFS. Its a fact. Don't like it ? well don't do the damn job then. :angry:

Please note that neither Pat nor Arthur have been back and replied. I think they just wanted to open a can of worms - my can has its lid firmly in place!

They also have their story within MM files and news stories too.

[Mouse]

Please note that neither Pat nor Arthur have been back and replied. I think they just wanted to open a can of worms - my can has its lid firmly in place!

They also have their story within MM files and news stories too.


I do wonder what their true motives were. Were they really putting the children first by applying for an exemption or were they out for their own glory?
As they seem to have disappeared, I guess we'll never know!

[Andrea08]

what started this thread???? AHHH yes exemption from the EYFS learning goals,,,,

I realy dont think any one will ever be granted exemption from the EYFS in any part as it is law,

in SEN some children may not reach the final outcomes independently and may never reach some goals because of their personal difficulties,,, the way in which these children will be educated will there fore be different but the way the childcare proffecional will record the childs outcomes will be the same.

its the understanding and recording that people need training and support with once we have worked with and understand the aspects of the learning goals and there recordings we will find it second nature.

i too found EYFS a mystery till joining the forum and the support members gave me has enabled me to consider and GO FOR accreditation as i am doing nothing differently than a nursery with my planning and recording,

if we stick together as the family we have developed we will help each other understand EYFS & , recording tequineques (S) activity ideas, risk ass, policies, documents, contracts and everything we have been doing and the extras EYFS /OFSTED want form us proffesional child care providers. with out the word proffesional it would indicate we are untrained and not responsible persons to care for the most valued aspects of society our children.

love andrea x:thumbsup:

[Tups]

Please note that neither Pat nor Arthur have been back and replied. I think they just wanted to open a can of worms - my can has its lid firmly in place!

They also have their story within MM files and news stories too. Hi Debbie I think you should no Arthur's dad is very ill suddenly and i don't think Pat uses a computer

[Winnie]

Attack seems to be the norm on this forum at the moment, and i for one want no part in it. Debate is good but this has gone beyond debate and i find it all rather distasteful. Its seems the EYFS has achieved something- it has turned childminder against childminder.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Hi Debbie I think you should no Arthur's dad is very ill suddenly and i don't think Pat uses a computer

I hope he recovers soon

Thanks for posting this

[Arthur]

Sadly he won't because it's terminal. Things have been turned upside down at the moment and I really haven't got time to respond. Sorry.

[Tups]

Sorry Arthur I had to say something I didn't like what was being said My thoughts are with you and Pat x

[Pauline]

Sadly he won't because it's terminal. Things have been turned upside down at the moment and I really haven't got time to respond. Sorry.

I think because Arthur is not able to come back and respond it is only fair that this thread is locked for the time being.