How can you pay no tax [Archive]

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bex4adz

04-02-2008, 11:54 AM

Hi i have heard from loads of people that if you are clever you don't pay tax. I know it is to do with offsetting but how does this work. Say my gross profit was £30000 and my expenses were £10000 I would still have £20000 to pay tax on so how does it work that you don't have to pay

Thanks

Becki

berkschick

04-02-2008, 12:02 PM

You would have to pay tax on any gross profit over your personal allowance which is 5400 or something like that.

As a childminder you would normally loose about 2/3 of your gross pay to expenses.

berkschick

04-02-2008, 12:03 PM

To earn £30,000 as a childminder, you would be doing LOADS of hours!

tulip0803

04-02-2008, 12:24 PM

Childminding expences are high - See the sticky at the top of this section book keepingaccounts, tax, expences & National insurance.

To pay no tax you need to "earn" less than your personal allowance about £5,000 ish. This is after all your deductions have been taken off your income from childminding. Total income £15,000, expences £10,000 = £5,000 earnt

£30,000 is a lot for a childminder to earn before deductions. You would need to work a lot or hours and it would be unlikely that you would pay no tax with that sort of income.

deeb66

04-02-2008, 07:32 PM

Trust me....you would be struggling to make that kind of money :D

As the others have said there are a lot of expenses that you can claim as you are working in your own home and are using your private car.

bex4adz

04-02-2008, 09:49 PM

Hi thank you very much for your help. I know I will make way above £30000 as I already have 6 full time bookings at £4 per hour 10 hours a day so that is £24 an hour or £240 a day which is £1200 a week. I know people say you can't earn alot of money through childminding but I am the only childminder in my village and the next nearest one is more than 15 miles away so I have the demand for it.

Becki

Cheeky Chops

04-02-2008, 09:50 PM

flipping eck! you have 6 fulltimers!! wow go you!! xx

sarah707

04-02-2008, 09:52 PM

Congratulations on filling your spaces!

All I would suggest is that you keep your accounts very carefully, write down absolutely every single business expense and hire yourself a good accountant...!

An accountant has just joined this site as a forum friend - see box at the top of your screen...

Good luck ! :D

manjay

04-02-2008, 09:52 PM

How do you manage to have 6 full timers?

amanda xx

crazybones

04-02-2008, 09:52 PM

deeb66

04-02-2008, 09:54 PM

How do you manage to have 6 full timers?

amanda xx

This is my question too?

Surely you would only have maximum of 3 full timers?

berkschick

04-02-2008, 09:55 PM

I was wondering the same as Amanda, how have you managed to get 6 full timers?

Do you mean in the holidays?:idea:

Angela234

04-02-2008, 10:13 PM

I also wondered that

Angela

tulip0803

04-02-2008, 10:16 PM

I thought registration covered 3 full-timers(pre-school) and 3 others under 8 too.

Sarsar3NCH

04-02-2008, 10:20 PM

Absolutely but surely over 5s are at school during day or do you charge full fee anyway?

button68

04-02-2008, 10:21 PM

This is my question too?

Surely you would only have maximum of 3 full timers?

I can only assume that the OP has an assistant.

Trouble

04-02-2008, 10:23 PM

lucky you!!!!!!

tulip0803

04-02-2008, 10:24 PM

Absolutely but surely over 5s are at school during day or do you charge full fee anyway?

No the school age are part-time, only charged at part time rates. Thats the way I always saw it as there is no place while they are at school as you cannot offer it to an under 5. I was just wondering where the 6 full timers come from as well.

ajs

04-02-2008, 10:45 PM

good question

has bex4adz come back online at all

tulip0803

04-02-2008, 11:30 PM

Also a registering childminder cannot guarantee that they will be allowed to care for 3 under 5's and 3 over 5's as it is down to space and experience as well as the inspector you have for your pre-reg check.
When I first registered they would only allow me 4 (including my DD) until I gained some experience they increased it the following year.

bex4adz

05-02-2008, 01:09 AM

Hi,

Sorry I prob didn't make that very clear.The reason I have 6 full timers is because both my partner and are are registered childminders. We had our visit last month and was told as we have a large house we could have 8 children altogether

Hope this clears things up

Becki

berkschick

05-02-2008, 07:44 AM

Have you been told how many of those 8 can be under 5 though?

The normal allowance is 6 children. Of those only 3 may be under 5 at anyone time and of those 3, only 1 may be under 1 at anyone time. So the normal allowance is 1 under 1, 2 further children under 5 and 3 further children 5-8.

I know a couple who work together locally who were allowed 8 children but only 4 under 5 and 4 over 5.

Also do you have any children of you own as these also count in your ratios.

EG I have a 17 month old and a 6 year old that count so I am only allowed 1 under 1, a further 1 under 5 and 2 over 5.

As regards the tax thing, you can obviously split it into 2 as you are both earning it. SO if you earn £1200 a week between you, that £600 each. You would expect to loose up to 2/3 to taxable items so that leaves you £200 a week taxable pay.

But I would ring OFSTED today 08456404040 to check how many under 5s you are allowed before you sign any of the parents.

bex4adz

05-02-2008, 12:13 PM

Hi,

I rang them this morning, and I got it wrong we can have up to 16 in total 8 each so 3 under fives, 3 over fives, and 2 over 8 each. The reason for this is we have a very large house and alot of land and a vast amount of experience.
No I don't have my own children so this doesn't affect it

Becki

Pipsqueak

05-02-2008, 12:37 PM

Blimey....:eek: double trouble!!! Thats almost the equivelent of having a nursery:eek: rather you than me (I am a lilly-livered mare!!!! lol)

I guess if you are making that much money then you would have to have an accountant who knows the ins and outs but I should imagine that there is not much way of avoiding paying tax on those amounts.

angeldelight

05-02-2008, 12:42 PM

16 children between you sounds hell of a lot ?

I am registered with my daughter - who is also registered

We have 6 children either when working alone
Or 6 children when working together
Of course we could have a few more over 8s

Do you actually work alone so you have 8 each in different rooms?

If I work with my daughter in the same room we are only allowed 6

We did have a variation once and got another child but it was a bit of a fight

Just not sure how you managed to get 16 children our house is also fairly large

Angel xx

tulip0803

05-02-2008, 03:44 PM

Ahhh. I understand now.

In that case if there are 2 of you working the income will be divided between you both. You will both have a tax free allowance of about £5,000 making about £10000 tax free between you. after you have deducted your expences anything over the £5,000 each has tax payable on it.

Anything you buy for minding comes under the expences. percentages of your elec/gas/oil/water/council tax petrol expences, food expences toys etc etc all come off as expences.

buildingblocks

06-02-2008, 07:36 PM

Absolutely but surely over 5s are at school during day or do you charge full fee anyway?

There is a childminder in Scunthorpe who charges full pay while child is at school full time - Don't know her though

Amaranth

06-02-2008, 08:50 PM

Omg, have they started limiting the number of over 8's we can have?:eek:
We have 4.

Carole xx

Cheeky Chops

06-02-2008, 08:54 PM

erm i dont think so have they??! Is that something else I have missed!!! x

avril

06-02-2008, 08:55 PM

I thought registration covered 3 full-timers(pre-school) and 3 others under 8 too.

My question too but hey good luck to you!

Avril :laughing:

carolinel

10-02-2008, 10:34 PM

I think it would also depend on what your local council will allow. even though ofsted may let you have 16 children, the council may say otherwise. I am only allowed a maximum of 6 children, inc my own. did you get planning permission for this amount of children?

casey's mum

11-02-2008, 09:39 PM

deeb66

11-02-2008, 09:43 PM

littlesprogs

11-02-2008, 09:46 PM

That sounds like an awful lot! Have I got it totally wrong but I didn't think it mattered if there were 2 of you registered if you were working out of the same property?

I have as my inspector told me a "very" large setting with 1 room and own toilet specifically for minding but I am only allowed 3! I know I have 3 kids but 2 of those are 11 and 9?

I am sooo confused :panic:

Angela xx

You are right. I am registered and so is my husband but it didnt increase my numbers when my husband registered because we work from the same property.

Also if you have too many children you have to get planning permission too and its not worth the hassle tbh.

casey's mum

11-02-2008, 09:47 PM

Whether local council allow this or not I feel this is a very large amount of children for 2 people to cope with. How on earth do you do it and provide a safe, well monitered environment. I wonder some days with 3 if I have suddenly developed eyes up my bottom!! lol
Good luck to you though x

manjay

11-02-2008, 11:05 PM

That sounds like an awful lot! Have I got it totally wrong but I didn't think it mattered if there were 2 of you registered if you were working out of the same property?

I have as my inspector told me a "very" large setting with 1 room and own toilet specifically for minding but I am only allowed 3! I know I have 3 kids but 2 of those are 11 and 9?

I am sooo confused :panic:

Angela xx

I think this is really inconsistent again!! I have an average size house and I also have 3 children, a 1 year old (who counts in numbers) and an 8 & 15 year old but I am allowed the full quota of 5 mindees.

My husband is also registered but that does not increase our quota in any way.

amanda xx

bex4adz

12-02-2008, 12:27 AM

Like I said before we will only have 6. We have a 14 bed house 6 reception and the south wing is dedicated to childminding. My partner will use some rooms I will use others it won't be together as such we will have seperate mindees.

casey's mum

12-02-2008, 08:01 AM

I think this is really inconsistent again!! I have an average size house and I also have 3 children, a 1 year old (who counts in numbers) and an 8 & 15 year old but I am allowed the full quota of 5 mindees.

My husband is also registered but that does not increase our quota in any way.

amanda xx

When I was going through my registration I was told to contact the planning office to see if I needed planning permission/change of usage on my property and was told to include that I have 3 children in the letter, even thought at the time my eldest was nearly 10. Planning sent me back a letter saying that I could be registered for three children basically because that was what I was told to ask for......(was very green and didn't really understand all that side of things).
I asked my inspector last year if now that 2 of mine are over 8 and my youngest is nearly 7 if I could have the 2 places my eldest boys were taking back for minding and she told me that I would have to go back to planning. I only wanted it for an overlap after school!
Planning came back with a reply that never really answered my question and I didn't push it as was told by my NCMA support worker that they were doing battle with planning at that time as planning wanted to change it to how many people, including all your own and all adults were living at the property. Didn't want to risk that cause there are 5 of us in the property and was worried that they would cut my numbers!
Have to say when on courses talking to other minders reg'd with CSSIW they have never had a prob like that. Inconsistancy between individual inspecters to it seems which hardly seems fair cause surely they should work to the same guidelines.

Angela xx

Mollymop

12-02-2008, 10:56 AM

I am only allowed 4 mindees under 8.

Tim is 9 and caitlin 3, so she is counted in my numbers and tim is not, but the inspector thought it best for me to start with 4 as Tim, even though he is 9, is still in my care?!

I wish she had given me 5, like I thought, i was supposed to have
:mad:

I will wait for a year then ask to have the full amount.

oakie dokie

12-02-2008, 11:02 AM

2 minders near us are both registered in their own right, mother and daughter, but work from the same address, they can have 12, 6 each, in the normal ratios, they only have a 3bed semi and her husband is registered too in his own right.

hazelx

Spangles

12-02-2008, 01:09 PM

Wow! Hope you've got a cleaner that's all I can say! I'd hate to clean all of those rooms and childmind on top! You'll be exhausted!

Cheeky Chops

12-02-2008, 07:48 PM

I have no children at present so I am allowed the normal.

I have had lots of enquires but I am not sure who to accept so I have accepted all enquires as I have not had any definites yet, but it is all a bit confusing as some would be better than others for me, so Im gunna just have to do it on a first to sign contract first served basis!!! x

lindylou

13-02-2008, 08:31 PM

hI everyone
She probably works with an assistant i work with an assistant and while the assistant is present am allowed to have 6 full timers and then after schools
Linxxx

tinytigers

17-02-2008, 09:13 AM

There seems to be a lot of variation doesnt there. There is a very good childminder that works from another local school that I know of and she and her husband are registered and have been doing it donkeys years and they can only have max of 6 between them.

16 children :eek: :eek: :eek: OMG. Think there would be plenty of new grey hairs after a few hours lol.

I only intend to have one full time as already have a 2 yr old and maybe then two more part time.