awkward parents: advice please?

[Goatgirl]

Hi,
I'm new to the forum and new (ish) to childminding. I do look after my nephews but ofsted don't seem to really consider them mindees (but that's a whole other story, lol).
I've been holding a place open for a baby full time and for an older sibling an hour before school plus drop - off. I charged a month's fees to hold the places ( non-refundable if they change their minds ) which I recieved no problem but now we are at the point where I would expect to have signed contracts for both places.
Well.
After trying to contact them for settling in hours two weeks ago, I eventually went to the parents' to do contracts etc but the husband is now out of work and they weren't sure if they could afford for me to look after baby while dad's at home.
Fair enough.
I went through the options with them ( short term contract, followed by a review; no hours for baby or part time hours but no guarantee of full time place when dad goes back to work etc). They said they were definitely sure they did want me full time but needed to work out the tax credit hours etc.

I arranged a telephone 'meeting' to finalise for 2 days later, but no call came and when I rang the parents were 'too busy' to talk and text me later to say they didn't want full time after all. Just the before school hours and 'some afternoons' for the month they've paid for.

I said fine but I do need to know which hours they want me to do this month. I've asked several times but still not had a straight answer and I'm supposed to be starting monday!!!

Its been a struggle to have any kind of communication all week and I'm getting the impression they think that because I've had a month's money I shoud just sit here and be 'available'.

I can't afford to turn away the before school place as I need a big chunk of my day free to be able to care for a parent who is ill if I'm needed. That's why I've been hanging on for this contract rather than take on after school minding which I've had loads of enquiries about. If I'd known what would happen I'd have stuck to before and after school hours as I've very few enquiries for between 9 and 3. I could have arranged to do my parental visiting then instead.
I'm exhausted, stressed and frankly rather tired of sending polite text messages to people who clearly don't want to answer the phone to me.

But as I'll be working for them I need to keep a good relationship.

I need to sort this out once and for all, but as they've paid where do I stand?

I'm happy to do part time hours but need to know when and be happy the first sessions are short enough for baby to settle in ok etc. I need to plan activities which involve my nephews too (quite a bit older) and I'd also like to be able to do things with my unexpected time 'off' but can't make any plans till I know what they want.

Could anyone help me with wording a text or letter please?

Sorry this is so long, I'm too stressed to think straight.

best wishes,
flora

[Pauline]

If it were me I would have got contracts signed BEFORE taking any money.

As it is, if they have not signed a contract then you do not have to do anything for them, if they are not taking the place, and you can fill it with someone else, then that is their problem.

I understand you want to keep good relations with them, so perhaps the best course of action would be to write everything down so that there can be no misunderstanding. I wouldn't text it to them, keep a copy for yourself and send one to them.

Tell them that you can only keep the places until (specifiy a date that suits you) and after that time you cannot not guarantee the place unless they come and sign contracts and arrange dates and times. Explain what hours you are willing to work if they want to change from the original, verbal agreement.

You need to get them moving, rather than keeping you on a string, while you are willing to wait they will let you!

[Goatgirl]

Hi Pauline,
Thanks for replying.
The problem is just with the baby's hours, for this onth, the one they've 'paid for'. I took the money to hold the place really, but said it would be payable towards the agreed hours for the first month. Now they don't want the agreed hours to continue after this month but they seem to want to use some of the time they feel they've paid for.

True, neither of us signed a contract (That is in hand for the older child and I have no worries there.), but I did send them a letter detailing the amount payable and what it would cover. I signed the letter. they paid the sum. I would think that's as binding in law.

What I'm confused about is my obligation to them now that the agreed hours have been paid for but don't really apply as they wont be needing them. . .
Can I just say' as you haven't let me know which hours you want me to work, I'm unavailable now to do them' ? or would i be breaking the agreement. ?

bws,
flora

[Pauline]

By not doing the hours that were originally agreed I think they are breaking the written agreement that you did, although the fact that they didn't sign it might make it difficult to prove, but they did give money based on it.

I think you should do what hours YOU want with this, fit them in how you want, simply because if they don't want what was agreed then they will have to accept what alternative you can offer, you can't be at their beck and call.

I'd be interested to see what others think :)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would write to them saying

After several attempts to finalise the contracts for your children I am holding the places open until ..............and after that time the deposit will be forfeited.

However, if you require my services I would be happy to allocate the funding to either of the children but contracts need to be finalised first.

I look forward to hearing from you.

[Pipsqueak]

I am in definate agreement with getting it all down on paper - record conversations, attempts at trying to get hold of them etc, keep copies of letters/emails sent/receiived.

Are you with NCMA - if so give them a call and ask for their advice where you stand.

I would have thought seeing as no contract has been signed they haven't really got a leg to stand on. You have been very accomodating and flexible throughout this by the sounds of it. If you are due to be starting Monday - ring them tomorrow - just tell them you are taking notes of the conversation from the outset, and tell them that you cannot start either child Monday unless there is a signed contract in place full stop - they or one of them has to come round Sunday at a time good for you to sign the necessary. No contract no place.

They have broken any agreements/terms I would have thought and would have "forfeited" any money - ie the deposit.
I supposed you could be generous but lay it out in a letter as Debbie suggests.
I don't think I would be holding my breath on this one and I would also be questioning do I really want a family who can mess me around like this at such an early stage. I understand they may be going through a difficult time at present but it shows a lack of respect for you by not keeping good communciations with you

[Heaven Scent]

So sorry you are going through all of this especially at this stage of your minindg career. You have had some really good advice here all I can say now is good luck and I hope you get it all sorted soon

[Goatgirl]

Hi everyone,
Thankyou for all your replies. More than anything else its good to feel supported. When I'm better at it myself I hope to give some advice back, lol.:blush:

Well I've taken all your advice into consideration and went back over the original letter that set out my terms for taking the deposit.

I tried ringing again, but unsurprisingly got no answer, sigh, so I wrote a new later stating that I thought as the deposit was paid to hold a place which would not be taken up after all, that the money recieved would not be put toward the first month's childcare as without a permanent contract there would not effectively be a 'first month'.

I admitted I had made a verbal offer childcare for this month to be included in the money already paid, but the offer was made at the beginning of the week when they were saying they were definite about a permanent contract, just the hours were undecided.
I also said that I thought as they hadn't asked me by now for specific hours etc that I assumed they didn't want any in any case.
I said I had put it all in writing to make it clear for us all and end any confusion.


I kept a copy of the letter and hand delivered it. (noone was in). Now I Just hope they turn up monday morning at 7.30 with the older child! I could go round there again today but I think at this stage either they will go ahead or they wont, so I'm going to forget about it all and enjoy some sunshine. Well, after I draft a new, very watertight contract for the other child. I am with NCMA but their contract doesn't really seem to cover everything. And it seems a bit prescriptive, e.g. notice for holidays etc.

Thankyou all again for your help and suport. It really helped me to get my own mind straight, seeing the problem from other people's perspectives.

Really glad I registered here: is there somewhere I should introduce myself?:)

very best wishes,
flora

[Pauline]

I hope you enjoy your afternoon now Flora, it must be a big relief to have done it. Hope it turns out ok for you.

Not all parents are so much trouble so hopefully you will get it out of the way now and in future all will be plain sailing.

Let us know how you get on! :)

and yes, if you would like to introduce yourself that would be great, you can do it here: http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17

[Chimps Childminding]

Well done Flora! hope the older child turns up for you in the morning and you manage to get things sorted out properly!!!!!!!!!

The girls on here are great at giving the right advice and even though I live next door to June (another childminder) its great to have someone else to call on if you have a query or problem!!

[Goatgirl]

Hi again, I was hoping i wouldn't need any more advice for a while.... sorry ...

Basically Mum came and signed the contract yesterday but asked to 'do the month and then see how it goes', so feeling very tired at the time I said fine, we'll review the contract in 4 weeks time. I wrote this on the contract. She also said she'd be on holiday for 3 weeks from then which I didn't worry about at the time, as the contract states they still pay full fees.

I realised later that I didn't think Mum had fully understood and was thinking she'd get the 'free month' just as with the baby, then probably end the contract if her partner is still not working after holiday. So I rang Mum (no answer!) and left a message on their answering machine, explaining I was ill so couldn't do today and that they'd still be liable to pay me for the four weeks after the review date even if they gave me notice that day.

I got a text later saying sorry to hear I was ill, could I let them know today if I'd be able to do weds and giving me 4 weeks notice to end the contract. So I guess they had no intention of paying me after this month and knew that all along?

Strange as it seems, I don't think they're mean people, just that they aren't overly clever. ( Look who's talking, lol) I mean, they text me their notice.
I feel like this is all a mess of misunderstandings and that I'm responsible for what they can't work out on their own. I definitely think they see me as trying to get away with taking their money.


if you sign a contract and give notice the same day is it still valid?
I realised earlier that I actually didn't even sign the contract myself, but I don't know what that means. It doesn't stand anyway?

Personally I think (well I think i think...my head hurts ....) we are in the same position as with the baby the other day and If there's no permanent contract, I have no obligation to look after the little girl unless they pay me now i.e. in advance, for that care.

BUT if the contract still stands despite my lack of signature, and they gave notice the first day, does that mean they get the deposit paid toward the fees for the 4 weeks I work?

Very confused. again. Have to do something today as I am due to have the little girl tomorrow, though I do still feel poorly. Not sure if I'll be better in time for tomorrow.

bws,
flora:)