Reply from Ofsted! **updated with my reply**

[sarah707]

Further to the questions I asked Ofsted in this thread...

http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15167

Here is their reply... I suggest making a cuppa before reading! :D



Dear Sarah

Thank you for your queries

We recently sent to providers the requirements for the Childcare Register.

There are some clear differences between the EYFS requirements for those on the Early Years register and the requirements for the Childcare Register.

The differences you have highlighted are between the two new registers and they are not discrepancies.

All providers must meet the requirements of whichever register/s or part of a register they are on. There are a few requirements that differ between the Childcare Register and the Early Years Register and one does not subsume the other, so all requirements for both registers must be met.

A childminder who is registered on the Early Years Register and the compulsory and voluntary part of the Childcare Register must comply with the differing requirements for example -

If a childminder is only registered on the Early Years Register so only cares for children aged from Birth to 31 August following the child’s fifth birthday they are not required to have written procedures for complaints and Child protection;

If they are also registered on the Childcare Register to care for children after the end of the EYFS then they must have written procedures for the children cared for in this age group.

Providers should ensure that their provision is able to meet both sets of requirements and this is true of all of the examples you have set out. This does not mean for example that you would have to have a separate risk assessment for the different registers but providers would need to ensure that the risk assessment reflected both parts of the registers and any difference in the specific requirements.

In answer to your query about training and qualifications -

- Childminders on EYFS are required to have completed a pre registration course within 6 months of registration and hold a current first aid qualification.

- Childminders on the Childcare Register are required to hold a current first aid certificate and to have either a level 2 qualification or training in the common core.

For registered childminders who have transferred to both registers, they should read the guidance on common core which outlines the knowledge and skills required and they may be able to demonstrate that they are compliant with the common core skills and knowledge through previous childminding training.

What training and qualifications will be accepted as meeting the requirement for the common core?

1. All qualifications on the Early Years and Playwork Qualifications Database will currently be accepted by Ofsted as meeting the requirement. Registrants can check if any qualification they hold is on the database by checking online at http://eypquals.cwdcouncil.org.uk/public/ or by ringing the CWDC helpline on 0113 390 7743

2. Training based on the Championing Children Resource Book; the CWDC Induction Standards and the following CWDC endorsed programmes all meet the requirements of the common core...

Revised Learning Mentor initial training programme

Early Years Professional Status

Early Years Sector Endorsed Foundation Degree

Foundation Degree in Working with Young People and Young People services

3. Any other training or qualification will be accepted providing the childcare provider can demonstrate that it is common core compliant.

The guidance ‘Common Core of Skills and Knowledge for the Children’s Workforce’ outlines the skills and knowledge in greater detail. This can be found on the following link:

http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/deliveringservices/commoncore/

All people working with children should have these skills and knowledge.


We hope this claries the issues you have raised.

Ofsted - Children's Directorate Enquiries

[crazybones]

:huh: :ohdear:

[Heaven Scent]

Well well well so there you go - Why wasn't that mentioned on peoples ICP courses and on the induction day????????????

Clarity Clarity Clarity all the way with Ofsted & Co.

[katickles]

I don't understand :blush:

[sue m]

So pleased you said that Kat!!! :D

[MissTinkerbell]

Well that really clarified everything didn't it? I'm still confused.:panic:

Better go and see if my Early Years Teaching degree counts as a recognised qualification oh and of course my BTEC Nat Dip in N|ursery Nursing - would hate to think I'd wasted all that time!!!

[Bushpig]

Will my graphic design degree help??? I worked hard for 4 years for it!!! :p :p

I am doing the DCP currently, started Unit 1, so have a way to go! This would count I gather?

[crazybones]

Sarah, send them a replay to the bit that says "We hope this claries the issues you have raised." and say NO, It doesnt!

[Minstrel]

I must be really thick cos about half of that didnt even come close to making sense!

[sarah707]

I needed a few minutes to think on this one... this is my reply :D


Thank you for your reply.

Your reply does not, however, clarify things for me as it is largely new information which has not been mentioned before, either during Eyfs training or in any of the literature so far sent to me from Ofsted about either the registers or the Eyfs.

It therefore prompts more questions than it answers.

It is something of a shock and a worry to me as I believed the Eyfs was the only framework I would have to follow and it now appears there are a new lot of expectations (some very different from those in the Eyfs) about which I have not been made aware.

Can you please advise me if there are any other differences between the registers which need to be considered?

Can you also advise me where in the Statutory or other guidance of the Eyfs these differences are noted or whether there is an extra document to be used alongside the Eyfs which states exactly what Childminders are expected to do. Also when this document will be made available so I can study it's further implications to my practice.

Can you please clarify the following - if childminders are following Eyfs but also work with older children, will they be judged unsatisfactory at inspections for endangering children if they do not have a Safeguarding policy because they have followed the Statutory Guidance of the Eyfs instead of your letter to them?

Also the other differences... will an inspector mark a setting unsatisfactory for not following them because, until childminders received your letter, they were not aware the differences were there?

And of course there will be many childminders who have not read your letter as carefully as me and might not have picked up on the issues, so they will be following the Eyfs blithely unaware they are doing things wrong.

I am sure there will be other questions as I digest the further implications of your reply.

Best regards, Sarah Neville.

[Pedagog]

Well that's cleared that up for us all its now as clear as mud.

[Rubybubbles]

errrr:eek: :blush:

[ajs]

thanks for that sarah

it's really cleared it up and i know exactly what i should be doing now not

[katickles]

Oh looking forward to the reply on that one :)

I think they will have email id (like caler id) see Sarah's name & panic soon :laughing:

[son77]

Why o why o why did they have to change how we register?

Why should there be any difference in the way we work or policies we need for different age groups?

And how on earth are we meant to remember all of this if this is how it's going to be?

I thought they brought in the EYFS to bring it all together and make it easier.

Thank you Sarah for the time it must take you to write your emails & the patience you must have with Ofsted :rolleyes: and then share it all with us.

[Lou]

At least you are keeping them busy Sarah!!

I was under the impression they had nothing to do, esp after i rang them this morning to ask for their fax number and the jobsworth on the end of the line made me answer 6 security questions first!!!!

[Straws]

Sh*t i'm more than confused, I thought everybody gets transfered over to both registers. Does this mean i need a level 2 quailification to be on the childcare register??

[mimo]

Sh*t i'm more than confused, I thought everybody gets transfered over to both registers. Does this mean i need a level 2 quailification to be on the childcare register??


HELP i dont know DO I ????????
Whats training in the comman core ????????:confused: :huh: :huh: :confused:

[LOOPYLISA]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[jellytot]

errrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm

dont know what to say

thought i was slowing getting the hang of stuff and now i just dont know

:confused:

[mum22]

I am confused also, :thumbsup: Sarah thank you for trying to get some sense...

[oakie dokie]

love your reply, i understand it too, your letter that is! not any of the other stuff. i think i am poo at this job, i dont know anything. you think your getting to grips with it all and then bam! great detective work sarah:clapping:

[jfbsdb]

Oh no.. another headache! I'll be following this one with interest.. I'm sure it will all make sense one day!! :rolleyes:

Jean x

[Heaven Scent]

Oh Sarah I hear those moans they are coming through as clear as a whistle unlike the information and the implications it holds for us poor childminders. Basically we have to conduct our business on three levels - Nursery, Reception Class and now After School Clubs - Is this level 2 qualification now to be in Playwork or will we all have to do an extra course to bring any qualifications in early years up to 16yrs. eg. a bridging course between early years and the CCLD or Playwork? Gosh just how the goalposts have moved. This is becomming a nightmare altogether - some people are really going to struggle with all this - its a lot to expect some people to take on on their own.

[conniepawprint]

not sure if this is in the right part but have you all had a letter from ofsted saying we can now only look after two early years 0/5 because if you have a child that has started school this sept but is not five you have to keep them on your early years reg till next august the august after their fifth b/day so now i have had to give notice to a parent because now i am one over but this takes efect from first of sept but my letter did not come till 30th august and i have to give a months notice so they are taking money from us as i cant charge early year rate to a school child so i am now confused and angry about this foundation stage . This letter was the first i had heard about this new rule.

[Mags]

Blimey....think i'm going to stop reading haha...getting more confused by the minute. Time to hide under the duvet i think. Could someone give me a shout when things become MUCH MUCH clearer.:(

[sarah707]

not sure if this is in the right part but have you all had a letter from ofsted saying we can now only look after two early years 0/5 because if you have a child that has started school this sept but is not five you have to keep them on your early years reg till next august the august after their fifth b/day so now i have had to give notice to a parent because now i am one over but this takes efect from first of sept but my letter did not come till 30th august and i have to give a months notice so they are taking money from us as i cant charge early year rate to a school child so i am now confused and angry about this foundation stage . This letter was the first i had heard about this new rule.

This has been clarified by Ofsted already ... It is not about the age of the child, it is about the time they are at school. If a child attends school for 10 sessions a week, they are classed as age 5... all the time, through the year, term time and holidays. The answer is here - I hope it helps :D

Dear Childminder,

The National Standards stipulate that four-year-old children who attend 10 early education sessions a week may be classed as children over five for the purpose of adult: child ratio. The EYFS Statutory Framework document uses slightly different wording. It states that four and five year old children who only attend the Childminding setting before and/or after the school day may be counted as over five for the purposes of the adult: child ratio.

We have received confirmation from the Department for Children, Schools and Families that the change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement. Reference is made to children attending the Childminding setting before and after the school day only to specify which children may be counted as five. Therefore, the EYFS does not prevent four and five year olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays. "

I hope this information helps. However should you require any further information do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,
Oliver Walker
Customer Service Advisor, Ofsted

[fiona]

just as you think you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.........blink..... and it goes out again!!!! not sure about all of you, but i started this so i could have fun, making a mess painting, playing and spending time with little people (including my own) now its all quick take a photo, oh what box does that fall into, make a note and a record, am i not allowed to join in and get messy any more!!!!!!!!!!

My brain has fried!!!!

:confused: :confused:

[balloon]

I don't understand a work of it!

I think I should ask to be taken off the other register as I don't have any level2 quals in childcare. (I've just been a mum for nigh on 30 years, lol!).

[son77]

I too have no level 2 in childcare but when EYFS came out I thought all was fine with that, but oh no, not now!

I wait with bated breath (is that actually a phrase or have I just made that up?!)

[JazzyL]

It seems that each day I am getting more confused and feeling overwhelmed by it all. Thanks Sarah for being so on the ball and asking them what we all need to know :)

[chez1373]

I havent got a level 2 qualification in childcare.....

oh ive had enough if its not one thing its another if it well i think im gonna turn my pc off an close all EYFS books an wait till my inspection an see what she says if i get unsatisfactory i think ill give it up there an then,
Ive had enough my head hurts an there is no help out there oh sure they say there is but its not in plain english its all complicated an so hard to understand ive had enough.........

Kids will be here in 10 mins so ive got to find my smile
xxx

[sarah707]

I had another reply but since it didn't answer any of my questions, I am not posting it...

I have requested someone actually reads what I've written and answers what I've asked ...

I'll get back to you when there's something useful to report. :D

[katickles]

There not answering your questions Sarah as they probably don't know the answers :rolleyes:

[wendywu]

Sounds like Ofsted are doing a suck it and see approach. I am sure it will all come out in the wash and by this time next year we will all know what we are supposed to be doing.

Or Sarah will be in charge of Ofsted by then:laughing:

[jaz]

I have the solution

1. go to the cupboard and get out a (now this is important!!!) LARGE wine glass

2. collect corkscrew and bottle of wine

3. open said bottle of wine (other alcohol will work)

4. pour a very (this is important as well) LARGE glass

5. go a and sit in a darkened room and drink until glass is empty

6. repeat instructions 4 and 5 until the bottle is empty

after this if you can still remember or care who Ofsted are and their inane comments please return to instruction 1 again and repeat the process



I hope this helps, as Sarahs reply from Ofsted certainly didnt!!!!

J
xx

[Chimps Childminding]

Great idea Jaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[Pipsqueak]

Oh my - its all a bit much for me... where is Miffys bit of sand I want to join her

[cherry pink]

I have the solution

1. go to the cupboard and get out a (now this is important!!!) LARGE wine glass

2. collect corkscrew and bottle of wine

3. open said bottle of wine (other alcohol will work)

4. pour a very (this is important as well) LARGE glass

5. go a and sit in a darkened room and drink until glass is empty

6. repeat instructions 4 and 5 until the bottle is empty

after this if you can still remember or care who Ofsted are and their inane comments please return to instruction 1 again and repeat the process



I hope this helps, as Sarahs reply from Ofsted certainly didnt!!!!

J
xx

I AGREE JAZ BUT S*D THE WINE GLASS JUST USE A LONG STRAW (YOU CAN GET EXTRA LONG ONES IN POUNDLAND LO) LESS HASSLE :D :D

[donnahay0]

Well thats fantastic - I have just about had enough now - I have done everything I possible can to comply with this, that and the other and it's still not enough.

I have signed up to do my NVQ3 for which I am still waiting to be assigned an assessor (they are very short of staff). However, I am now feeling like I might just give it all up and go and work in a supermarket - come home at the end of the day (no risk assessments to do, no toys to trip over, no nappies to change and no stupid paperwork. I would be poorer but I am beginning to wonder if all this hassle is worth it.

Was feeling fed up today and now I have completely lost the will to live.

Where's that wine....

[watgem]

Hello again Sarah, you are a star! Good job us childminders have you on our side!:jump for joy: I hope their next reply makes more sense my brain's stopped working. ps please can I buy some more books this time on cd?

[Nicki L]

Sh*t i'm more than confused, I thought everybody gets transfered over to both registers. Does this mean i need a level 2 quailification to be on the childcare register??


I phoned ofsted on this. Apprently if you are moved over to the voluntary register for 8years + then you are ok at the moment as they must have deemed you suitable to put you on it, but you will need to have gained at least a level 2 by 2011.

Anybody applying from now on to become a registered childminder and wants to be on that particular register will need the qualification before they can be.

Of course the lady could have been wrong - it has been known!!!:laughing:

HTH

[Nicki L]

oh and i forgot to add that i have got on to my local NCMA training bod who said that as i have done unit 1 of my DHC (ICP) and i am on their waiting list i am fine as i am classed as working towards my qualification (they keep running out of funding!). Nevermind that i keep getting the date changed - i am on their list and that should suffice for now!!!

[Lottie]

Anybody applying from now on to become a registered childminder and wants to be on that particular register will need the qualification before they can be.

Of course the lady could have been wrong - it has been known!!!:laughing:

HTH

I just phoned Ofsted about this. I was told the above too. Woman on the phone said I won't have to do level 2.

i don't know how accurate this is...

Oh and the Level 2 for new childminders only applies for the voluntary list 8+ years.