Admin/ registration fee?

[ChocolateChip]

Does anyone charge an admin or joining fee for new starters?
I seem to remember a while back that some nurseries were charging £10 or so to cover getting all the paperwork set up and I wondered f any cm's did this?

[FloraDora]

I don't.
I do everything online so no printing/ paper costs.
I consider my time setting up a new family on my system as being part of being self employed. it takes seconds.
I also do not charge for visits to get to know children and families, an attraction to my parents, if it makes my job easier I am happy to do it in my own time. If I charged, the parents might not want to pay and I could end up, as I have read on here has happened to others, a child not having pre visits and start on the first day of contract. I like to have child on my own before introducing other children to LO and them to the others.
But my background is the state system where parents didn't incur costs on registration or visits so I didn't think to do this.

I don't consider myself to be like a nursery in any way so I wouldn't follow their practises.

[bunyip]

Many nurseries around here charge more than a me £10 for admin/sign-up.

I don't charge as such, but I do have a deposit to reserve the place, which is refunded if they take up the place and stick it out for at least a month. That offsets the admin and time costs of a new starter in part, if it all turns out to have been wasted time.

I did a rough calculation of what it costs to go through the whole process fro enquiry to starter, even if they don't ever start, allowing for visits, settling sessions, and charging my admin hours at below minimum wage. It's at least £50 as a minimum, and in many cases exceeds £100.

[loocyloo]

I don't charge, although I do know of childminders that charge a £15 non refundable fee for all paperwork - contracts and all that goes with that, diaries, LJ etc. AND who also charge for settling visits.

I don't charge as I like to do settling visits on my terms, although if parents want more than I think we need, then I reserve the right to charge for those. ( and say so in my policies ). I do print a fair bit of stuff off, but its how I work and I'm happy with it.

the main stumbling block these childminders face, is when they take on a funded child, only using funded sessions, then they can't charge for anything! and for one of them, that is why she doesn't take funded children!

[blue bear]

I don't charge but 24 years ago when I looked at a nursery for my son they charged £20, I wonder what it is now

[Maza]

I don't charge. When I had my very first parent visit I gave mum a few printed out documents in a nice folder. She didn't take up the space and I did feel a bit resentful - not to her, just resentful of the situation. Since then, I don't give out anything on the first visit. If they are serious then I insist they come back for a second visit and then I give them stuff about my setting/service to take home. They usually sign up if they have gone to the trouble of a second visit.

I also got fussy about who I would invite along for an initial visit. In the early days I had at least two parents visit me who lived too far away for it to be practical to use me. Now, on the initial phone call or email I explain exactly where I live and bring up the question of logistics with them. Looking back, I have been quite tough saying no to some lovely sounding parents - but they are just hours of my own and DD's day that I cannot get back. One mum turned up at my door and the first thing she said was "I didn't realise how far up this road you were". At that point we both probably knew that she wouldn't sign up, no matter how much she might like my service. I should have had the guts to say so at the door, rather than spend a polite hour going over everything with her. I could have been having a lovely time at the park instead - as could she.

I digressed a bit, but basically, I look for ways that I can avoid waste rather than charging an admin fee. I charge monthly in advance, plus two weeks deposit, so it is a lot for parents to pay out as it is.

[FussyElmo]

Does anyone charge an admin or joining fee for new starters?
I seem to remember a while back that some nurseries were charging £10 or so to cover getting all the paperwork set up and I wondered f any cm's did this?

No I'm trying to get people sign with me not give them an excuse to go somewhere else.

Paper ink etc is all an expense so I don't see it as money wasted.

But like Maza I don't like giving out anything important on the first visit. However the last few patents have signed on the first visit 😂😂😂

[bunyip]

I agree it's a business cost so it ought to be factored into general fees as part of a proper business plan. That said, how many CMs do their costings, and how many just follow the 'local rate' then wonder why they struggle?

I do think we need to protect ourselves against the costly time-wasters who sign up but change their minds before or shortly after starting. In my area, we even have occasional problems with parents who sign up with two or more settings as if a contract was on a trial basis. :(

[BallyH]

I don't charge. I don't give any paperwork out until they sign a contract. I take a deposit to hold the place for them and which I return after 3 months of them being in my care. I charge for settling-in sessions. Parents pay for childcare monthly in advance. At the moment that's as competitive as I can be as other cm's charge less than me. For me it's all about planning ahead and seeing what works. I'll be keeping my ears open to here how the nurseries will manage once the 30 hours come in.

[bunyip]

I don't charge. I don't give any paperwork out until they sign a contract. I take a deposit to hold the place for them and which I return after 3 months of them being in my care. I charge for settling-in sessions. Parents pay for childcare monthly in advance. At the moment that's as competitive as I can be as other cm's charge less than me. For me it's all about planning ahead and seeing what works. I'll be keeping my ears open to here how the nurseries will manage once the 30 hours come in.

From what I hear, nurseries have only made the 15 hours work by being able to charge higher rates and for extra services ( meals, etc.) for hours taken in excess of the 15 hours. My guess is they'll struggle to do this once children are on 30 free hours because that will mean a lot of fully funded children, and they can't make additional charges if all their care falls within funded sessions.

A lot of nurseries claim the funding doesn't cover the cost of provision. I used to think this was merely an inaccurate way of saying the funding rate is less than their normal rate. But I was surprised to discover from two different nursery managers that they sincerely believe it costs them over £4 per child per hour to provide the service, before they can make any sort of profit at all. I know they have staff wages and the cost of premises, but they also have much higher ratios than CMs. If £4+ ph is the true cost of nursery provision, then they must be incredibly inefficient businesses.

[BallyH]

From what I hear, nurseries have only made the 15 hours work by being able to charge higher rates and for extra services ( meals, etc.) for hours taken in excess of the 15 hours. My guess is they'll struggle to do this once children are on 30 free hours because that will mean a lot of fully funded children, and they can't make additional charges if all their care falls within funded sessions.

A lot of nurseries claim the funding doesn't cover the cost of provision. I used to think this was merely an inaccurate way of saying the funding rate is less than their normal rate. But I was surprised to discover from two different nursery managers that they sincerely believe it costs them over £4 per child per hour to provide the service, before they can make any sort of profit at all. I know they have staff wages and the cost of premises, but they also have much higher ratios than CMs. If £4+ ph is the true cost of nursery provision, then they must be incredibly inefficient businesses.

Thank you Bunyip, there are a lot of different stories going around local at the moment about what cm's hear what the nurseries are going to do but until it starts we won't know for definite. Interesting times ahead.

[ChocolateChip]

Thankyou for all the replies, I would 'like' them all but I still don't seem to have the button.
Wow Bunyip, parents signing up to two settings?? That's a new one on me lol!

[rickysmiths]

I charge a £25 non returnable admin fee for ad hoc contracts and for anything less than 2 days.

[rickysmiths]

From what I hear, nurseries have only made the 15 hours work by being able to charge higher rates and for extra services ( meals, etc.) for hours taken in excess of the 15 hours. My guess is they'll struggle to do this once children are on 30 free hours because that will mean a lot of fully funded children, and they can't make additional charges if all their care falls within funded sessions.

A lot of nurseries claim the funding doesn't cover the cost of provision. I used to think this was merely an inaccurate way of saying the funding rate is less than their normal rate. But I was surprised to discover from two different nursery managers that they sincerely believe it costs them over £4 per child per hour to provide the service, before they can make any sort of profit at all. I know they have staff wages and the cost of premises, but they also have much higher ratios than CMs. If £4+ ph is the true cost of nursery provision, then they must be incredibly inefficient businesses.


I don't agree. Unlike us they have higher accommodation costs either in purchasing it or renting. They have to pay Business Rates which can be very high. The equipment they buy is often very much more expensive than certainly anything I would buy to use in my home. They also have to pay the whole of the utility bills, they have higher Insurance costs and pay a higher Ofsted Registration Fee and higher IOC Fee. This figure doesn't surprise me at all.

I worked out how much an hour it cost me to 'run' a child and it was just over £4ph but that takes into account the cost of my Tax and NI so anything that is left is my clear profit.

Really every chidminder should know how much it costs them to 'run' a child in their care.

[mama2three]

Good to see you back RS

[bunyip]

I don't agree. Unlike us they have higher accommodation costs either in purchasing it or renting. They have to pay Business Rates which can be very high. The equipment they buy is often very much more expensive than certainly anything I would buy to use in my home. They also have to pay the whole of the utility bills, they have higher Insurance costs and pay a higher Ofsted Registration Fee and higher IOC Fee. This figure doesn't surprise me at all.

I worked out how much an hour it cost me to 'run' a child and it was just over £4ph but that takes into account the cost of my Tax and NI so anything that is left is my clear profit.

Really every chidminder should know how much it costs them to 'run' a child in their care.

All good points; I see what you mean.

I was thinking how they benefit a lot from economies of scale. E.g. Bulk buying expendables, catering packs of foods, etc. They can afford expensive equipment because it's spread across a lot of children. They're also more 'time efficient' than most CMs because they use sessions and don't trouble themselves with antisocial opening hours when they'd have to pay staff to look after just one or two children.

The odd thing is that funding isn't very far short of normal nursery rates in some places. That suggests nurseries may be unviable as businesses irrespective of funding. I guess a 'charity' nursery (which I can't stand) or an owner-managed one can operates at break-even so long as everyone gets paid a wage, but why would an absentee owner bother if they were getting zero returns from the business?

I'd love to know for sure.

[ChocolateChip]

Thankyou Ricky, that's pretty much what I have been mulling over, whether to put in a fee for those smaller contracts that you don't recoup much back on. I have done an ad hoc contract before, who then never actually booked me so all that time doing paperwork was for nothing! You win some, you lose some lol!

[rickysmiths]

Thankyou Ricky, that's pretty much what I have been mulling over, whether to put in a fee for those smaller contracts that you don't recoup much back on. I have done an ad hoc contract before, who then never actually booked me so all that time doing paperwork was for nothing! You win some, you lose some lol!

This is why I introduced it.

[Mouse]

I've started emailing paperwork to parents and getting them to print it out.

[Czegluk]

Hi
This is an other interesting post..

My so goes to a small term time only nursery. They are longing for paying parents as you can imagine most of the childrens parents are at home or working part time or flxible etc this is why they can send them here.
It is one of the best nursery in town (not me saying) not because of the expensive equipment what they dont have anyway but all the teachers have 25+ years experience.

Anyway why im writng is
I was wondering the same how is that possible they will be in deep trouble because of the underfunding is that

SOME NURSERY JUST DONT WANT TO WORK WITH FULL CAPACITY, i think the ratios over 3 are 1:13. They want to give quality care!!

I might be wrong and some places have higher bills than others but i believe this is a big factor in this stuation.

They did charge me £20 registration fee in 2016:)

[ChocolateChip]

Thankyou Czegluk :)