Help with non comiting parent

[shonar0612]

Hi all

Needing some advice regarding a parent I have, he started 3 weeks ago and mum was made aware she had to get a week in advance. It was a quick placement and mum was waiting for tax credits. I have had full time during the Easter break for 2 weeks. I have asked mum several times about term time holidays and how I needed a contract put in place for agreed hours. Mum sent a message the other day stating she needed me Monday Thursday and possibly other days. I made her aware that I can't do that I need set days of hours to hold his place which would be charged regardless. I have now text yesterday to ask if she has decided and not received a message back. She is still not a week in advance either. Been having problems with the boy not listening, lying to me, peed in my garden etc. I'm wondering if someone has adviced regarding what I should do. The original contract is 3-7 Monday to Thursday but a few days later parent said she didn't need me all of them.

[FloraDora]

Did she sign original contract? Did you have a settling in period in it where both sides can end contract?

If you did and she isn't paying, follow the advice of your insurance company re warning letters etc...

If you did and you now don't think the child will fit in/ you can't accommodate her change of plans etc...then you can give notice as outlined in the contract.

If you didn't have a tight signed contract then I would re visit the contract if you have different availability, establish exact days and times and emphasise it is legally binding, quote your insurance company that will support you over non payment. I don't do pay in advance but lots do and I have read on here that they offer a no pay no child care system...that is written into the contract too. Tell her that legally you cannot continue to look after her child until that contract is signed by both of you.
If you cannot accommodate what this parent wants ....then walk away now....once she has paid, or cut your losses and stop the childcare before a debt builds up too much.

My thoughts are with you though as a fraught start is never good in our job.

[shonar0612]

It isn't that she isn't paying as she does the Friday or the care but I stated and it is in my policy that it needs to be 1 week in advance, I have another child Monday Tuesday and Friday which is a pick up the nursery along the road from his school but I then also possibly have another Thursday Friday starting in 2 weeks. I'm not willing to not have set days or hours each week as financially it would be a nightmare
Regarding tax credits etc and working out my income. Also for during holidays she has stated that she doesn't want him to loose a space yet she can't confirm what I'm even meant to be doing. Just feel as though I've tried to help and work with her. The other day that I stated that it is a business and all I could suggest is set amount of hours each week rather than days. She ignored my message and sent her other son up with him instead of coming herself!

[FloraDora]

she can't confirm what I'm even meant to be doing.

I think to ease your stress you need to take control.

You say when you can have him. State which days she booked, which days you can change, cost of holiday retainer - which means that she keeps her place, or go with term time but she risks losing place. Put it into a new contract and get her to sign there and then. No contract- no care. If You genuinely have not got room for flexibility of days then you can't offer them. Changing to hours may not help either as she might expect you to have child on a day when you can't.
Most childcare providers have a specific day arrangement unless it has been organised from the off that the days alter for rotas at work or shift work. She is just playing up.
So far you have said you want paid in advance and she has chosen not to.....she is dictating to you how you conduct your business.... In order for your insurance company to support you in case of issues you need to be very clear on your arrangements. You need to lead.

[shonar0612]

I want set days. I have my own 3 children and they have activitys so I want to know what I'm doing each week. I gave the option of a set amount of hours each week in order to keep his after school space as long as I was made aware of the day's the Friday before. She said yes but since then not informed me of hours when I hav asked her twice. I am going to write up a letter this evening and email and send to her home address.

[Simona]

I want set days. I have my own 3 children and they have activitys so I want to know what I'm doing each week. I gave the option of a set amount of hours each week in order to keep his after school space as long as I was made aware of the day's the Friday before. She said yes but since then not informed me of hours when I hav asked her twice. I am going to write up a letter this evening and email and send to her home address.

I would start all over again with this parent...as advised below it is your business but the parent is making your life a little difficult...shall we politely call it so?

Just to make sure you do have covered it your contract 'who is suitable to collect children at the end of the day'?....was this other son suitable?

I am sure you must be feeling 'unsure'...review her contract as the initial agreement is not really suitable and is changing all the time.

Oh...please ensure you have clearly stated in your contract 'how much notice is required'...just in case she changes her mind....4 weeks is the usual!...both for change of hours or leaving altogether ;)

Also make sure you have 4 weeks' deposit...which you are entitled to ask for...somehow you may encounter other problems here...me thinks?

also make sure you state your fees are reviewed each year in your contract...you will have read the reasons why we need to be not setting our fees ion stone anymore!

In future it may be more difficult to get set days for care...we won't be going into this now but keep your eyes open for more news

Good luck!

[shonar0612]

I would start all over again with this parent...as advised below it is your business but the parent is making your life a little difficult...shall we politely call it so? Just to make sure you do have covered it your contract 'who is suitable to collect children at the end of the day'?....was this other son suitable? I am sure you must be feeling 'unsure'...review her contract as the initial agreement is not really suitable and is changing all the time. Oh...please ensure you have clearly stated in your contract 'how much notice is required'...just in case she changes her mind....4 weeks is the usual!...both for change of hours or leaving altogether ;) Also make sure you have 4 weeks' deposit...which you are entitled to ask for...somehow you may encounter other problems here...me thinks? also make sure you state your fees are reviewed each year in your contract...you will have read the reasons why we need to be not setting our fees ion stone anymore! In future it may be more difficult to get set days for care...we won't be going into this now but keep your eyes open for more news Good luck! thanks simone
I have spoken with mother regarding hours and e have agreed Monday- Thursday 3pm to 6pm. Which leaves Friday term time a space which she needs during holidays. I have spoken with her about this and her reply was well mind he was here first! I mentioned a fee to keep Friday's open for him and she questioned how honest a person I was?! And she's never heard of that before in this area

[Simona]

thanks simone
I have spoken with mother regarding hours and e have agreed Monday- Thursday 3pm to 6pm. Which leaves Friday term time a space which she needs during holidays. I have spoken with her about this and her reply was well mind he was here first! I mentioned a fee to keep Friday's open for him and she questioned how honest a person I was?! And she's never heard of that before in this area

I feel an 'alert' coming on for this parent :rolleyes:

I am sure you will explain again how it all works with great patience... a 'retainer' comes to mind? ...and that the 'area' has nothing to do with you being honest or trying to ensure she is not let down when that space has gone...regardless of who came first!!

Talk about being tested all the time ! ;)
Good luck to you :thumbsup:

[shonar0612]

Thanks,

Have come across yet another problem. When I took the boy on it was explained to mum that I have my own children to pick up, she spoke with school who said they would keep him for a bit after school until I got there. Have just informed her of how long it took to get to said area after school and she's informed me school won't keep him that long. She I'll ask if he can be collected earlier. I have now stated that unfortunately I am no willing to do as I have a nursery pick up at 3:30 at his nursery so I'd spend an hour in total going back and forth. She has said she has no one else to pick him up this week. It's not news and was made aware from the start that I wouldn't be able to get there that fast.
I am now at a stage I want to terminate contract. Do I have grounds and how do I go about it? The 12 hours a week is not worth this hassle :( mum seems to think her son comes first with it all it mine do!

[bunyip]

Tbh, this seems to have been one problem after another with this mum, and I've been hearing every louder alarm bells ringing with every new post. :(

Possibly there are some things I could say in mum's mitigation to be absolutely fair, but the whole lot taken together is simply screaming that you're right to want to terminate the contract.

The contract is very much at the heart of the matter.

Do you have a settling period in which you can give immediate notice?

Failing that, is the contract crystal clear on the days and times and school collection arrangements? If so, then you stick to that and it's mum who is asking you to do things which are outside the contract, so you can't be held responsible.

You absolutely must speak with your insurer/legal team for advice. It will all depend on the contracted terms, to which we on this forum are not privy.

I was going to say, even if you continue the arrangement, you need to review the contract and make sure it's 100% clear on what you will do and/or be expecting payment for. Parents sometimes pick up on loose words like "flexible" and take them to mean whatever they want. If you let these things go as a 'one off' that happens a few times, parents can begin to build a legal case of 'custom and practice, so that, no matter what is written in the contract, they can argue a reasonable expectation that you'll do it each and every time. :p They can also mistakenly think that their CM will do something just because someone else they know has a CM who does that. Frinstance, I have a girl every other Wednesday and only charge for the days she attends. That wouldn't suit a lot of CMs but might lead a mum to believe she can expect that with every CM on the planet, IYSWIM.

All in all, I'm sure you're wise to let this one go: she's a laibility. :(

[samb]

Of course you have grounds- you are unable to do the change that she is requesting (to collect him earlier) however the difficulty is you have told her you can be there by a certain time when in reality now you've tried it you can't be. Can you work the notice period with someone else waiting at your own children's school for you to collect them after you've collected the mindee at the time you originally agreed along with the nursery pick up? Do you have this as a contract? You really need to sit down and work out what you have signed to say you will do and if you can't do it and give notice you will still need to work out how you will do your notice period.

[shonar0612]

Of course you have grounds- you are unable to do the change that she is requesting (to collect him earlier) however the difficulty is you have told her you can be there by a certain time when in reality now you've tried it you can't be. Can you work the notice period with someone else waiting at your own children's school for you to collect them after you've collected the mindee at the time you originally agreed along with the nursery pick up? Do you have this as a contract? You really need to sit down and work out what you have signed to say you will do and if you can't do it and give notice you will still need to work out how you will do your notice period.

It was made aware to her from the off that I wouldn't be there at 3pm as my children come out of school. She agreed to have a friend who could collect him until I got there or ask school to keep him. Now it's came to light it'll be 25 minutes after he finishes school.

[bunyip]

It was made aware to her from the off that I wouldn't be there at 3pm as my children come out of school. She agreed to have a friend who could collect him until I got there or ask school to keep him. Now it's came to light it'll be 25 minutes after he finishes school.

Does your contract specify that you will definitely pick up from school? (Seldom a good idea, for other reasons than this as well.)

Does your contract specify the time at which after-school care commences? (It should.) If so, at what time?

Did you speak to your insurer/legal team? What have they advised?

[shonar0612]

Does your contract specify that you will definitely pick up from school? (Seldom a good idea, for other reasons than this as well.)

Does your contract specify the time at which after-school care commences? (It should.) If so, at what time?

Did you speak to your insurer/legal team? What have they advised?

I haven't spoken with my insurer yet. NY contract doesn't specify school pick up either.
Starting to feel like this mum is just using me to not have to watch her son i get that if she finished early she's paying me to keep her son but ever y day she goes home to have a relax time. Messaged last night to say that she's got a stomach bug so for me to pick him up which was fine until she said if i am struggling she will collect him and meet me then go back to bed all for 2 hours. I saidni could collect him and just take him there so she doesn't need ri leave or come pick him up for her to say its not worth it for an hour and she doesn't get respitr! He's at school from 9am and goes to his dads every weekend then spends everyday after school here!! 😠

[shonar0612]

I haven't spoken with my insurer yet. NY contract doesn't specify school pick up either.
Starting to feel like this mum is just using me to not have to watch her son i get that if she finished early she's paying me to keep her son but ever y day she goes home to have a relax time. Messaged last night to say that she's got a stomach bug so for me to pick him up which was fine until she said if i am struggling she will collect him and meet me then go back to bed all for 2 hours. I saidni could collect him and just take him there so she doesn't need ri leave or come pick him up for her to say its not worth it for an hour and she doesn't get respitr! He's at school from 9am and goes to his dads every weekend then spends everyday after school here!! ?de20

Also the parent has only verbally agreed a new time and not signed a new contract also still not one week in advance.

[bunyip]

I'm getting a bit lost here, so forgive me if I'm missing something.


What time are you contracted (ie. on your most recent written contract) to start providing care for the child?

What time had you verbally agreed to start providing care for the child?

Are you still within a settling-in period where you are contractually able to give immediate notice?


Sorry to keep on about it, but this is important. My concern is that you could be in breach of contract, which could have serious repercussions.

I know the parent's behaviour can be seen as irritating, but frankly it doesn't matter one jot whether mum is working or sitting on the sofa eating chocolate and watching Jeremy Kyle while you have the child. It's your contractual position that matters, and the effect that could have on you both financially and in terms of your reputation.

I'm worried you're getting bogged down in how unpleasant the mum is and that's clouding the thing that matters.

[samb]

I agree with bunnyip this is confusing. It sounds as though you've signed contracts saying you will collect child at 3 but in reality you won't be there til 3:25? That's quite a significant change and I wouldn't expect a school to hold on to a child for that long 4 days a week especially as you're being paid for it. I would seriously suggest you make plans for your children to be collected whilst you work out a notice period with this family as you clearly are unable to meet the contracted requirements. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick here

[shonar0612]

I agree with bunnyip this is confusing. It sounds as though you've signed contracts saying you will collect child at 3 but in reality you won't be there til 3:25? That's quite a significant change and I wouldn't expect a school to hold on to a child for that long 4 days a week especially as you're being paid for it. I would seriously suggest you make plans for your children to be collected whilst you work out a notice period with this family as you clearly are unable to meet the contracted requirements. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick here

Basically it was agreed that i would collect him from school on days my partner was off due to him being to pick my children up. And days he couldn't she would get a friend to collect him until i was there or pay for a taxi for him as she knew days i couldn't be there at 3 and there is no one local enough to her. Now she is refusing to pay a taxi or get a friend to collect him meaning its left down to me but i cant get there at 3 every day. This is my first child so i may have made a big mistake doing this. The contract times are until 7pm and within 3 days she messaged me to say she didn't need me all of this time and wanted to change it but hasn't signed a new contract

[shonar0612]

I agree with bunnyip this is confusing. It sounds as though you've signed contracts saying you will collect child at 3 but in reality you won't be there til 3:25? That's quite a significant change and I wouldn't expect a school to hold on to a child for that long 4 days a week especially as you're being paid for it. I would seriously suggest you make plans for your children to be collected whilst you work out a notice period with this family as you clearly are unable to meet the contracted requirements. Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick here

Not sure it makes a difference but i still have all my messages etc stating this. I have asked if she can pay the week in advance this week as he has been a month Herr and sign a new contract

[shonar0612]

Not sure it makes a difference but i still have all my messages etc stating this. I have asked if she can pay the week in advance this week as he has been a month Herr and sign a new contract

Want to thank everyone. I have spoken with mum today and after this week i will no longer have him school term and she will pay a holding fee to ensure his place during school holidays as that is what she is worried she will lose.

[k1rstie]

I think personally, I would call it quits completely with this parent. Let her find an alternative during the holidays. All you are doing is getting a small amount of money between now and half term, and then in all likelihood she will mess you around again.

Can you even use tax credits to hold a space open? - I have no idea.

I also think again personally, that it is not reasonable for any aged primary school aged, ( or infant aged) to be picked up and transported alone in a taxi. And I would hope no taxi company would take the booking. Screams safeguarding to me.

[bunyip]

Want to thank everyone. I have spoken with mum today and after this week i will no longer have him school term and she will pay a holding fee to ensure his place during school holidays as that is what she is worried she will lose.

Pleased to hear it's worked out.

I think we all start on something of a learning curve with our first clients. I was lucky that mine was a friend of the family, so a good one to learn on, but have still made no end of mistakes since.

Contracts do need to be quite 'tight' and clear, without any "ifs and buts". Worth calling your insurer for advice on how to word something like this before you commit, or at the least ask the forum. Personally, I would have only put on the contract exactly what I could be sure of fulfilling, which in this case would be to care for the child from 3.25 (3.30 to be on the safe side.) Then I could still do the 3pm start when circumstances allowed, but it would be clear that was 'as and when possible'. What goes on the contract shouldn't be subject to what/when your OH is available for.

That, in essence, can be the difference between looking like you're letting mum down on something you agreed and providing added flexibility over and above the contracted terms, IYSWIM. It is a subtle difference, but a significant one. Live and learn.

I'd be tempted to think on Kirstie's advice to give notice and move on. She's right: a lot of parents tend to mess about new CMs, as they reckon you'll suck up just about anything to get your business rolling.

Just to be fair, Robert de Niro notwithstanding, taxi drivers are no more likely to be a safeguarding risk than 'EY professionals'. They undergo similar CRB/DBS checks and may often carry unaccompanied minors. In fact it was the number of local authorities requiring taxi and/or minicab drivers to be CRBed a few years ago that threw the entire CRB system into an enormous backlog that it is still yet to fully recover from to this day. :p