British values

[agency12]

Have you seen the 'British values' section in the ofsted regs ? Any thoughts on how to demonstrate adequate British values in your setting ?

[Mouse]

How would you plan for your childminders to demonstrate British values?

Will you have certain ways they are expected to do it? Will it form part of your inspection process and what criteria will you use to judge they're showing adequate consideration to British values?

[loocyloo]

How would you plan for your childminders to demonstrate British values?

Will you have certain ways they are expected to do it? Will it form part of your inspection process and what criteria will you use to judge they're showing adequate consideration to British values?

I agree. What/how will you expect childminders to demonstrate British values.

[Simona]

Have you seen the 'British values' section in the ofsted regs ? Any thoughts on how to demonstrate adequate British values in your setting ?

Yes I have seen it...understand it and am able to evidence it...have you? can you?

[agency12]

We are revising our quality control for inclusion
to have a 'tolerance of beliefs' section

[Mouse]

We are revising our quality control for inclusion
to have a 'tolerance of beliefs' section



So will your childminders be assessed on how inclusive they are? How do you assess that? Looking at it from a childminder's point of view it would be interesting to know what an inspector (Ofsted or agency) is looking for. How would you expect a cm to demonstrate their 'tolerance of beliefs'? Would you ever expect to come across a childminder who says they are not inclusive or not tolerant of all beliefs? Presumably if they have those views they wouldn't be accepted into your agency in the first place?

'British values' and 'tolerance of beliefs' are such vague terms and open to so much interpretation it would be good to know exactly what you are looking for :thumbsup:

[agency12]

Fair question, we would simply look for an understanding of the importance of inclusion and tolerance - remember we are only visiting the setting twice a year so the cm's would need a level of professionalism -

[Simona]

Mmmm.....Thesaurus says it is confused by 'tolerance of beliefs'!!!
Inclusion is not necessarily 'tolerance' according to the English Dictionary...google agrees!

[Mouse]

Slightly off the subject, but will agencies be responsible for training cms from scratch? Do you have to prepare your own training process, or will cms still go through the LA (or whoever) first, then come to you? Is your training package something Ofsted consider when considering your application?

It must be quite a task if you have to train people from scratch who perhaps have no childcare experience at all, other than maybe being a parent.

I'm asking out of genuine interest and curiosity.

[agency12]

Indeed, tolerance of beliefs (or non-belief for that matter) isn't inclusion - but it fits nicely with British values (or 'western' values perhaps) so provisionally that's where we are thinking of putting it - I've never met a full blown creationist (close too though) let alone a creationist cm - but we would have to de-register (zero tolerance there then)

[Simona]

Indeed, tolerance of beliefs (or non-belief for that matter) isn't inclusion - but it fits nicely with British values (or 'western' values perhaps) so provisionally that's where we are thinking of putting it - I've never met a full blown creationist (close too though) let alone a creationist cm - but we would have to de-register (zero tolerance there then)

Unless I am mistaken we are asked to be 'respectful' of different beliefs/religions/cultures .....as we do live in a very multicultural society
That is what British values are as well as being shared by other societies
I am unsure it is just the prerogative of the western society?
Tolerance is not the same as respect.

Inclusion is rather different...it means equality and non discrimination...we could include a person but not respect his/her beliefs or understand diversity.
One look at EYFS PSED and all is there very clearly explained.

There is a wonderful book by Sue Griffin, Inclusion, Equality and Diversity that will help explain exactly where all this falls into place

Mouse...There is a recent guidance from either DfE or Ofsted I have read...can't recall precisely which...where the agency has to work with the LA
I will trace and put the link for you

[lollipop kid]

Unless I am mistaken we are asked to be 'respectful' of different beliefs/religions/cultures .....as we do live in a very multicultural society
That is what British values are as well as being shared by other societies
I am unsure it is just the prerogative of the western society?
Tolerance is not the same as respect.

Inclusion is rather different...it means equality and non discrimination...we could include a person but not respect his/her beliefs or understand diversity.
One look at EYFS PSED and all is there very clearly explained.

There is a wonderful book by Sue Griffin, Inclusion, Equality and Diversity that will help explain exactly where all this falls into place

Mouse...There is a recent guidance from either DfE or Ofsted I have read...can't recall precisely which...where the agency has to work with the LA
I will trace and put the link for you

Spoon-feeding Agencies again, Simona? :panic:

(Just saying! x)

L

[Simona]

Spoon-feeding Agencies again, Simona? :panic:

(Just saying!)

L

I don't think so...this is basic EYFS and good practice in childcare Lollipop
If agency 12 is a nursery...as I understand it from previous posts.... then the original question here was rather baffling...or at least I am baffled
Sometimes one has to address certain misinformation

[lollipop kid]

I don't think so...this is basic EYFS and good practice in childcare Lollipop
If agency 12 is a nursery...as I understand it from previous posts.... then the original question here was rather baffling...or at least I am baffled
Sometimes one has to address certain misinformation

Do Nurseries not have their own copies of the EYFS and/or the relevant guidelines etc. then? (Just wondering, as it doesn't sound like it from posts I've seen so far - and I was trying so hard not to give any pointers! In addition, as an independent childminder - and without trying to upset Agency 12 - I just don't see 'training' Agencies on what is after all a Childminding Forum my role. :rolleyes:)

L

[Simona]

Do Nurseries not have their own copies of the EYFS and/or the relevant guidelines etc. then? (Just wondering, as it doesn't sound like it from posts I've seen so far - and I was trying so hard not to give any pointers! In addition, as an independent childminder - and without trying to upset Agency 12 - I just don't see 'training' Agencies on what is after all a Childminding Forum my role. :rolleyes:)

L

I totally see your point and yes, nurseries do have to follow EYFS that is why the question was a bit strange....all that Agency 12 has to do is transfer her nursery practice to that of an agency
I understand the forum has accepted Agency 12 ...as explained in the ICM section and will also support agency CMs I believe.
What I am thinking of is those CMs who will join an agency that, I feel, has to ask such basic questions
Let's call my reply a pointer towards good practice ......training ...nah!
One of the requirements of the agency handbook is sound knowledge of the EYFS

[lollipop kid]

I totally see your point and yes, nurseries do have to follow EYFS that is why the question was a bit strange....all that Agency 12 has to do is transfer her nursery practice to that of an agency
I understand the forum has accepted Agency 12 ...as explained in the ICM section and will also support agency CMs I believe.
What I am thinking of is those CMs who will join an agency that, I feel, has to ask such basic questions
Let's call my reply a pointer towards good practice ......training ...nah!
One of the requirements of the agency handbook is sound knowledge of the EYFS

I wanted to add as well that I do not have a problem personally trying to help any Agency childminder. Judging by the posts I've seen so far, I really hope the Agencies do signpost the forum to their Childminders. It looks like they might need it!

:rolleyes:

L

[Simona]

I wanted to add as well that I do not have a problem personally trying to help any Agency childminder. Judging by the posts I've seen so far, I really hope the Agencies do signpost the forum to their Childminders. It looks like they might need it!

:rolleyes:

L

I respect your view on that but do not agree...many reasons why and I am not preparesd to go into them
I look forward to reading the answer to The question posed by Mouse!

[FussyElmo]

Indeed, tolerance of beliefs (or non-belief for that matter) isn't inclusion - but it fits nicely with British values (or 'western' values perhaps) so provisionally that's where we are thinking of putting it - I've never met a full blown creationist (close too though) let alone a creationist cm - but we would have to de-register (zero tolerance there then)

Why would you have to deregister a creationist cm? That's hardly inclusive or being tolerant of beliefs.

What does it matter what belief a cm is? Surely the only thing that matters is their willingness to except other people's views/beliefs.

[agency12]

Was a bit knee jerk wasn't it, if they can evidence that they were complying with standards then fine - but they would have to be willing to compartmentalise - and teach the exact opposite of what they 'know' to be true - I would struggle if anyone asked me to do that

[FloraDora]

It's all about professionalism - as a member of staff in a school that isn't a faith school you do it automatically. It worries me that you would 'struggle' .
I have worked in many schools that have a range of staff with a range of beliefs, I have my own beliefs and would never have dictated to others about them, as other staff didn't do either.
It's perfectly fine to say Christians/ Muslim/ Jewish community/ Buddhist / evolutionist/ creationist / Quaker/ humanist/ atheist etc... believe. ......it's called educating. Childminders do this all the time as we recognise and make our LO's aware of different cultures in our world.
However a fundementalist or extremist, in the nature of their extreme beliefs may have issues, hence the issues in Birmingham and Derby.

So just having a belief, whatever it is, doesn't discount you from a professional role. your suggestion of 'compartmentalising' is what professional people do daily about all sorts of things. Prevent Policies I expect will be in place to ensure indoctrination doesn't happen and if seen in practise through observations or reports then you can address them.
But you can't not allow someone to be on the register surely because you personally would struggle with maintaining a professional outlook in a certain area.

[Maza]

Was a bit knee jerk wasn't it, if they can evidence that they were complying with standards then fine - but they would have to be willing to compartmentalise - and teach the exact opposite of what they 'know' to be true - I would struggle if anyone asked me to do that

Well you're not 'teaching' it to be fact, if you see what I mean, so a truly inclusive/respectful childminder/teacher would have no problem giving the children the opportunity to learn what different people believe to be true. We have to respect that our children will make up their own minds when they are older and we have to lead by example when it comes to respecting people with other beliefs.

[bunyip]

Why would you have to deregister a creationist cm? That's hardly inclusive or being tolerant of beliefs.

What does it matter what belief a cm is? Surely the only thing that matters is their willingness to except other people's views/beliefs.

I agree. From the point of view of bad science, Creationism is no worse than most the garbage that passes for 'healthy eating' information which we're expected to promote.

If they're going to do that, they could make a start on the bad history being taught at infant school. :mad:

[bunyip]

While we're at it, how does "respect for British institutions deter terrorism anyway?

Gerry Adams: Martin McGuiness Meeting With Queen Is 'Gesture Of Respect' To Unionists (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/24/gerry-adams-martin-mcguinness-queen-ireland_n_1622609.html)

Nice pic there Lizzy. :huh: