Queens speech

[agency12]

She is about to tell us children will get 30 'free' hours (funded hours) per week - how do you see that affecting care ?

[Simona]

If you are interested in what the Queen's speech says about the increase in 'free' childcare...it is all in one line:

'Measures will be brought forward to help working people by greatly increasing the provision of free childcare'
now that needs a bit of translation!

Full speech here
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/queens-speech-2015

[agency12]

Its an increase for working parents (and only parents not parent) to 30 hours of funded care a week, and presumably if childcare is now 'free' then childcare tax credits will be phased out ?

I can't see the morning only (church volunteer) childcare surviving this if six hour are available next door

[FloraDora]

The Queens speech is just their 'vision' - it still has to get through parliament - and be funded!

The issue is how much are they paying per hour if it comes to fruit..? ..we will need to be banding together about this as the current rate causes issues but can be made up by having children more hours.
I see this having an effect on all childcare providers.

I am ready to write to my MP.......

[Mouse]

This is from the BBC news website and it always irks me!

"Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme."


Why can they not explain it properly? That LAs keep a good chunk of the money and hand over the minimum they can? No wonder parents think childcare providers are raking it in if we get paid more per hour that the average cost. Why can't it say "Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid the LAs £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme. LAs in turn passed on as little as £3.20 per hour to childcare providers meaning nurseries and childminders are subsidising the scheme."

Unless funding is reviewed and increased I can see a lot of providers not wanting to provide the 30 hours. It's something that will affect independent and agency childminders, especially if agencies take their cut as well.

[FloraDora]

This is from the BBC news website and it always irks me!

"Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme."


Why can they not explain it properly? That LAs keep a good chunk of the money and hand over the minimum they can? No wonder parents think childcare providers are raking it in if we get paid more per hour that the average cost. Why can't it say "Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid the LAs £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme. LAs in turn passed on as little as £3.20 per hour to childcare providers meaning nurseries and childminders are subsidising the scheme."

Unless funding is reviewed and increased I can see a lot of providers not wanting to provide the 30 hours. It's something that will affect independent and agency childminders, especially if agencies take their cut as well.

Perhaps we could become 'Acadamy providers' and just miss out the middle man - the LEA - that's why lots of schools become independent acadamies - they then get paid direct from government and buy in all the services they want - from anyone.

[hectors house]

Think we need to set up one of those "Change" petitions - every time I sign one for whatever injustice I mostly get an e-mail telling me that there has been a positive outcome.

[Simona]

Both NDNA and PLA have issued a response to the Queen's speech and both say that funding is vital for this to work....as did Family and Childcare Trust
Sam Gyimah did promise a review of funding and both associations will hold him to that...he is in charge of childcare in his portfolio.

PLA have also requested a seat at the table when the review takes place.
The promised 30 hours would not come in until 2017 anyway so there is time to debate.
I hope parents get the message now that what they believe to be ' free' childcare is not so.
Preschools on rented premises will struggle to extend if not able to rent for further hours.....not sure how state schools would also deliver 30 hours
So far only nurseries and CMs would be in a position to offer 30 hours but the shortage of places will be acute.

I feel this is a debate that will go on and on.... And where is the money coming from?

[agency12]

We get £3.16

[FloraDora]

We get £3.16

For what?
3/4 year old funding?
Are you a childminder then?

[bunyip]

This is from the BBC news website and it always irks me!

"Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme."


Why can they not explain it properly? That LAs keep a good chunk of the money and hand over the minimum they can? No wonder parents think childcare providers are raking it in if we get paid more per hour that the average cost. Why can't it say "Department for Education figures showed the average cost of providing free childcare places was £4.47 an hour, while the government paid the LAs £4.51 an hour for each three-and-four year old on the scheme. LAs in turn passed on as little as £3.20 per hour to childcare providers meaning nurseries and childminders are subsidising the scheme."

Unless funding is reviewed and increased I can see a lot of providers not wanting to provide the 30 hours. It's something that will affect independent and agency childminders, especially if agencies take their cut as well.

So instead of advertising their own "generosity" the LAs should have posters up explaining how CMs work to raise around 75p ph for the LA by providing childcare for a 3-4yo. :mad:

[JCrakers]

It's so maddening that the council don't pay the going rate. I charged £3.50 and the LA gave me £3.49 which wasn't too much of a loss..lol

But now I've put my fees up to £3.75 the council have also raised their amount but to £3.63 so I'm better off on my old fee but 12p less an hour on my new fee.

Some childminders in the town wont do the FEEE because of the loss we make.

[JCrakers]

We get £3.16

So are you an agency?
You get £3.16 from the council which then you have to pass onto childminders?
How much do they get then if you only get £3.16?

[Simona]

So are you an agency?
You get £3.16 from the council which then you have to pass onto childminders?
How much do they get then if you only get £3.16?

An agency would be the middleman in the funding ...LA gives it to the agency and the agency passes it to CMs...another bureaucratic step.

As I now have an agency in my LA I will be able to know a bit more on how all this works.

All LAs cream off from central funding because they can...neither Clegg nor Gyimah have kept to their pre election promise to encourage LAs to pass more to us...only the DfE can do so
The only alternative would be for the govt to fund providers directly but it would be a huge change and many do not agree with it.

[Mouse]

We get £3.16

Who gets £3.16? The agency or the childminder?

Did I read that agencies would have to pass on the whole of the funding (that the LA pays) to the childminder? Is it right that agencies can't take a further cut after the LA have had their share?

You are asking a lot of questions Agency12. It would be good of you to have the decency to answer some of ours. Show a bit of respect and you might actually get some answers :thumbsup:

[Simona]

Who gets £3.16? The agency or the childminder?

Did I read that agencies would have to pass on the whole of the funding (that the LA pays) to the childminder? Is it right that agencies can't take a further cut after the LA have had their share?

You are asking a lot of questions Agency12. It would be good of you to have the decency to answer some of ours. Show a bit of respect and you might actually get some answers :thumbsup:

A CM agency can 'offer' to administer the funding for their members...this would be declared in the application to Ofsted under additional services...see CM agency Handbook.

LAs can fund the agency but the agency need to pass the funding to their members...no mention of agencies able to reduce that amount...see Early Education and Childcare guidance by the DfE
If an agency offers these services they would charge a cm via their annual fee for services received.

Until they are actually running no one knows how they will operate because each agency has its own model...Agency 12 will know this.
What I think she/he is saying is that in the LA they are setting up the agency the funding is £3.16...I would say that is for 3/4 year olds not 2 year olds....is that right Agency12?

[Simona]

The govt has published the Childcare Bill following the Queen's speech ...see pages 25-26

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/430149/QS_lobby_pack_FINAL_NEW_2.pdf

[FloraDora]

An agency would be the middleman in the funding ...LA gives it to the agency and the agency passes it to CMs...another bureaucratic step.

As I now have an agency in my LA I will be able to know a bit more on how all this works.

All LAs cream off from central funding because they can...neither Clegg nor Gyimah have kept to their pre election promise to encourage LAs to pass more to us...only the DfE can do so
The only alternative would be for the govt to fund providers directly but it would be a huge change and many do not agree with it.

Personally I would like to be funded directly - like Acadamy schools.

I can't think of anything in the past year that the LA have helped me in - except to process my funding payment.
They invite me to update meetings that I already know the updates months before because I keep up to date and read things straight from gov sites or if I miss anything someone on here will mention it.
They provide free training that I don't need .....but because of my Ofsted grade and background expect me to support training and help others....for no payment!
I get oddball emails from DO - forwarded from someone who is telling her something so not even her view, her further research added and invariably about something I knew about ages before.
So I would like to 'opt out' - then choose which services I pay for, from whom , with my full per hour funding from govt , something they were very keen for me to do when I was responsible for hundreds of children, but I don't have an option to now I just manage 3 a day max.
I can dream...

[Simona]

Personally I would like to be funded directly - like Acadamy schools.

I can't think of anything in the past year that the LA have helped me in - except to process my funding payment.
They invite me to update meetings that I already know the updates months before because I keep up to date and read things straight from gov sites or if I miss anything someone on here will mention it.
They provide free training that I don't need .....but because of my Ofsted grade and background expect me to support training and help others....for no payment!
I get oddball emails from DO - forwarded from someone who is telling her something so not even her view, her further research added and invariably about something I knew about ages before.
So I would like to 'opt out' - then choose which services I pay for, from whom , with my full per hour funding from govt , something they were very keen for me to do when I was responsible for hundreds of children, but I don't have an option to now I just manage 3 a day max.
I can dream...

That sounds familiar...same here due to grade.
We can attend cms forum but it is so boring
No support but training is at a very high cost from my LA
Info is sooo out of date when I get it because like you I research my own.
Now that we have an agency in our LA it will be interesting to see what happens to those who do not join.

You could suggest your opinion on receiving funding directly from govt to PLA on the #EYAgenda...it welcomes every opinion form members or otherwise...I must remember to put tat question at the AGM next week.
I have just posted the link in another thread.

Someone asked in another thread if lone working parents can apply for 30 hours...PLA have just confirmed 'yes'.

[agency12]

Er, yes I can see where I've confused matters
Agency12 is a nursery (so we get funding) and we have applied to be an agency

Agencies won't have access to any funding belonging to cm's - it all (i say all....) goes to the right place

We (I'm talking as a nursery now) are getting all our parents NI numbers for the council, to get the funding they will at some point have to evidence they are working

[Mouse]

We (I'm talking as a nursery now) are getting all our parents NI numbers for the council, to get the funding they will at some point have to evidence they are working

I did wonder if that was going to be another admin task we would have to perform :rolleyes:

At the moment I take copies of birth certificates for 3 & 4 year old funded children, although most of them have been with me since they were babies so I know how old they are.

When the 2 year old funding was for disadvantaged 2 year olds I know parents had to apply to the LA, who issued them with a letter saying they were eligible. I don't offer funding for 2 year olds, but I've got a feeling the providers now have to assess eligibility.

If/when the 30 hours funding comes in I wonder who will have to check that parents are working for the required number of hours?

[Simona]

Agency12...providers do not need to get parents' NI number for free childcare... BUT... they need it for claiming the EYPP... NOT the 'free' childcare as that goes by age
When providers fill in the LA census we have to put the child's date of birth and post code...the LA then carries out the required tests for eligibility

This is the model form for EYPP from DfE ...we can devise our own and LAs are already working out one for themselves.
I do recall posting it a while back.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-pupil-premium-model-document-and-letter-for-parents

Agencies can administer the funding for Cms but cannot cream off...look at the agency handbook.
Some agencies will, for instance, administer the Childcare vouchers...all these tasks are things cms can do for themselves but remember that agencies are to recruit new cms who may be less aware of the administrative tasks so the agency will help....at a cost of course.

Yes...by the way policy is going I can see why nurseries will want to become an agency...expansion and lack of places come to mind so where they cannot offer the free hours CMs come in handy...and that will happen with schools who are registered as an agency too.

[agency12]

Hmmm, seems our local authority is getting ahead of themselves in asking for parental information - I'm going to mull this one over

[Simona]

Hmmm, seems our local authority is getting ahead of themselves in asking for parental information - I'm going to mull this one over

Not really as EYPP comes in Sept 2015.....they are getting in line with DfE guidance which was published a while back in February 2015
All that remains is for Ofsted to tell us how they will judge how EYPP is making a difference ...that is still a grey area.

[agency12]

Well typically the council ask - what have you/will you spend the pupil premium on ... So presumably we'll have to evidence the PP is being allocated to particular children and not others

[Simona]

Well typically the council ask - what have you/will you spend the pupil premium on ... So presumably we'll have to evidence the PP is being allocated to particular children and not others

The DfE has allocated 1.5 millions to LAs to get ready for EYPP.
Many LAs run training sessions to pass on info to providers together with forms to be filled.
They can support and suggest how we can spend and evidence this to Ofsted who remain the judge if it is making a difference to those eligible children.
I have attended 2 sessions...EYPP can be used for all children...although we can only claim for eligible ones...there are too many examples to list here but one that comes up a lot is employing a SLT to improve communication and language skills but all children can participate.
we can pool money together with other CMs or settings...again many examples on how to use this .
CMs agencies will receive the EYPP from their LA then pass it on to their cms.

Here are some links with more info

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/extra-funding-to-prepare-for-the-early-years-pupil-premium

Early Years Pupil Premium Guidance for Providers | From pregnancy to children aged 5 (http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/2015/02/early-years-pupil-premium-guidance-for-providers/)

https://www.gov.uk/early-years-pupil-premium-guide-for-local-authorities

The only issue left is how Ofsted will judge and grade us on the use of EYPP...that will come soon as well as being included in the updated EYFS when that is reviewed