First Aid training compulsory for all

[Simona]

All nursery staff are to be trained but I did not find any reference to CMs' assistants...does anyone know if an assistant has to be trained?...sorry I don't know the answer to this.
I did put this question at a meeting yesterday but all that was said is 'it is good practice'...not the same I think.


BBC News - First aid training for nursery staff 'to be made compulsory' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-31843120)

PS: another reason why the EYFS will need to be changed...#just saying ;)

[bunyip]

"Good practice" = another phrase to add to the Dictionary of Childcare.

Definition = a phrase commonly used by trainers, DO's, LA staff, pacey helpline staff, et al when flummoxed by any sensible question to which they might reasonably be expected to know the answer. Meaning approximates to, "I don't know, nor do I care to find out, but I'd like to sound professional even if it means everybody else doing something totally unnecessary just to be on the safe side." :p

Personally, I think first aid training should be compulsory for all citizens.

[sarah707]

It's about time for nurseries!! I can't believe they've let it go on for this long...

Childminder assistants must have first aid IF they are left unsupervised with children :D

[Simona]

Thank you for the replies...I raised exactly the same as Sarah 'if' an assistant is left on her own she must be trained.

Would it be 'good practice' if the rest of the sector would understand that CMs are part of EY and not an isolated incident?
The cost to nurseries is going to be high and I have read many concerns on this....but prevention should be better than facing a disaster....one would think so!...it may produce cheaper FA courses as a result? or is that wishful thinking? ;);)

[bunyip]

Out of interest, how many staff within a nursery must be PFA trained?

Does this have to be in addition to FAW-trained staff to cover injuries to adults?

How does this work out as a proportion? i.e. How many children are there to each PFA-trained staffer?

[Simona]

Out of interest, how many staff within a nursery must be PFA trained?

Does this have to be in addition to FAW-trained staff to cover injuries to adults?

How does this work out as a proportion? i.e. How many children are there to each PFA-trained staffer?

If you read EYFS 3.25 is as clear as the ratio for CMs...:angry:
One person available at all times...leaves a lot of questions unanswered really.

I also spotted the bit about FA for cms assistants...serves me right as I should have looked before asking the question :blush:

[FloraDora]

Out of interest, how many staff within a nursery must be PFA trained?

Does this have to be in addition to FAW-trained staff to cover injuries to adults?

How does this work out as a proportion? i.e. How many children are there to each PFA-trained staffer?

We never had any guidelines on this, entirely up to management.
Good management would have as many as possible, but very budget led, most schools were : all staff teaching and non teaching, would do an annual basic first aid course with a few doing first aid at work and all the nursery reception staff - paediatric every three years.
Not sure about the workings in private nurseries.

[Simona]

We never had any guidelines on this, entirely up to management.
Good management would have as many as possible, but very budget led, most schools were : all staff teaching and non teaching, would do an annual basic first aid course with a few doing first aid at work and all the nursery reception staff - paediatric every three years.
Not sure about the workings in private nurseries.

I have recently done supply cover in a nursery and 2 preschools
There is usually a nominated person and her/his name will be on the parents' board...often the manager is trained and other staff too as they have different shifts.

Many nurseries do train all their staff and, as you say, it is voluntary and budget driven with many LAs offering free FA...like mine...while others charge or providers purchase FA elsewhere as we can do that now.
My LA offers free FA training across the sector but they have told us this may change according to 'funding' available in future...if they end up charging that will be an additional cost to nurseries and very significant.

[bunyip]

If you read EYFS 3.25 is as clear as the ratio for CMs...:angry:
One person available at all times...leaves a lot of questions unanswered really.

I also spotted the bit about FA for cms assistants...serves me right as I should have looked before asking the question :blush:

Yes, the word "available" is a moot point. I had a dispute with my previous employer over this and the union took it right through the whole darned railway.

They too were required to have 1 first aider "available" on the station at all times. The admin team duly rostered 1 first aider onto each shift. We were all on unpaid mealbreaks, with the company insisting that we were free to leave the premises so they needn't pay us because we weren't actually on duty. I found I was constantly being called off my mealbreak to deal with a casualty, then being reported for being absent from my post when I tried to recover the time I'd lost just to get some lunch inside me. I therefore pointed out to my duty managers that I was entitled to an uninterrupted, unpaid mealbreak and I could not be called upon to fulfil my first aider duties because it was my time, not the company's. My managers dithered, made excuses, tried to make me feel guilty, passed the buck (a speciality of the managerial class) and finally did nothing, so I said "fine, I'll just call HM Railway Inspectorate at the start of every unpaid mealbreak, tell them I'm off duty and the station is therefore operating unlawfully with no first aider on duty, and you can either close the station or face prosecution." The managers suddenly took notice quicker that 5hit off a shovel. :D

[Simona]

Yes, the word "available" is a moot point. I had a dispute with my previous employer over this and the union took it right through the whole darned railway.

They too were required to have 1 first aider "available" on the station at all times. The admin team duly rostered 1 first aider onto each shift. We were all on unpaid mealbreaks, with the company insisting that we were free to leave the premises so they needn't pay us because we weren't actually on duty. I found I was constantly being called off my mealbreak to deal with a casualty, then being reported for being absent from my post when I tried to recover the time I'd lost just to get some lunch inside me. I therefore pointed out to my duty managers that I was entitled to an uninterrupted, unpaid mealbreak and I could not be called upon to fulfil my first aider duties because it was my time, not the company's. My managers dithered, made excuses, tried to make me feel guilty, passed the buck (a speciality of the managerial class) and finally did nothing, so I said "fine, I'll just call HM Railway Inspectorate at the start of every unpaid mealbreak, tell them I'm off duty and the station is therefore operating unlawfully with no first aider on duty, and you can either close the station or face prosecution." The managers suddenly took notice quicker that 5hit off a shovel. :D

Ah The Unions!!...if only EY did have a body to speak for us things would be different...including getting pittance for the so called 'free childcare'.
Your Union boss was not Bob Crowe by any chance?...we could do with someone like him in EY :thumbsup:

[bunyip]

Ah The Unions!!...if only EY did have a body to speak for us things would be different...including getting pittance for the so called 'free childcare'.
Your Union boss was not Bob Crowe by any chance?...we could do with someone like him in EY :thumbsup:

Ah, yes..........takes me back. Babyfaced Brother Bob was a real sweetie, bless 'im and goD rest his soul.

My LA is yet to confirm the rates, dates and arrangements for "free" childcare for next term. It's a toxic mix of LA EY/Education Dept and Finance Dept working to a school year and a financial year, and never doing it in harmony. Since I have children who only attend on funded weeks, it means neither I nor the parents know when the child is attending next month. I've had to draft 3 invoices for each of the others:-

In case the LA funds all the weeks of term.
In case the LA declares the first week of term to be 'non-funded'.
In case the LA decides to make funding totally unsustainable and I'm obliged to withdraw from the scheme altogether. :(



I fear there are a few too many in the 'leadership' of EY matters who share one thing with Brother Bob: being clinically brain-dead. :(

[Simona]

Ah, yes..........takes me back. Babyfaced Brother Bob was a real sweetie, bless 'im and goD rest his soul.

My LA is yet to confirm the rates, dates and arrangements for "free" childcare for next term. It's a toxic mix of LA EY/Education Dept and Finance Dept working to a school year and a financial year, and never doing it in harmony. Since I have children who only attend on funded weeks, it means neither I nor the parents know when the child is attending next month. I've had to draft 3 invoices for each of the others:-

In case the LA funds all the weeks of term.
In case the LA declares the first week of term to be 'non-funded'.
In case the LA decides to make funding totally unsustainable and I'm obliged to withdraw from the scheme altogether. :(



I fear there are a few too many in the 'leadership' of EY matters who share one thing with Brother Bob: being clinically brain-dead. :(

We have deviated a bit from the original post but...in EY everything revolves around funding so good to discuss.
Sam Gyimah is proudly announcing on twitter today that he is
'Pleased to announce new life-saving first aid requirements for nursery workers'.
He also says nursery and preschools will get defribillators (spelling?) at a reduced rates....no mention of Cms though.
Any nursery that trains all staff can display the Millie's Trust logo.

This should help you: funding rates for 2 year olds in 2015/2016...your LA will be there, some pay even more than suggested for these children.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/392709/Hourly_rates_for_2-year-olds__2015_to_2016.pdf

There is a post elsewhere in the forum about Norfolk dropping the rate for 3/4 year olds from £5.06 to £3. 28 or thereabouts.

Nursery World is doing a research on any funding being lowered or raised for that matter...the discussion in on their LinkedIn page
Anyone can input their views.....please do if you can access it.

[Simona]

I have just tweeted to Sam Gyimah why cms should not benefit from having a defribillator too at a reduced rate like nurseries and preschools...if that is what Cms want?

Truss constantly talked about Cms...this Minister has to be constantly reminded that we still exist

Also Millie's Trust are discussing cms being able to display their logo as we too have First Aid...and why not?

[rickysmiths]

At least cm will begin to feel more value for money when all the Nurseries put their fees up next year to cover all the First Aid. My costs will go down because as my husband works with Nursery and reception in school school will now have to pay for his First Aid?

[loocyloo]

Defibs cost at least £1000 for a basic model.
I was chatting to the nurse at the surgery today. She said all drs surgeries should have one and we also have one in a local pub! The next town along has one in a supermarket and another town in the opposite direction has one outside the public toilets. Also, all emergency responders should have one in their kit.

[mumofone]

It's about time for nurseries!! I can't believe they've let it go on for this long... Childminder assistants must have first aid IF they are left unsupervised with children :D

Here here!! :-)