Childs absences and holidays-what do you charge

[Georgiepoo]

Do you charge full fees, half fees or nothing for when you are available to work and a child is absent or has booked holiday?

I have in my contract that full fees are payable when child is absent or on holiday and no fees if I am unable to work or take holiday.

I have a child who has just got chicken pox and then has holiday booked from 22nd dec-5th jan so I will be paid 3 weeks for not having the child...nice but feeling a little guilty...anyone else feel like this or am I just being soft???

[hectors house]

I think I would be same as you and feeling guilty for charging full fee - what job does the parent do, it is likely that she can claim compassionate leave for when child is sick - I have looked after teacher's children and their parents did this. Think I would be more worried about how the child was going to have completed all Xmas crafts to take home!

Have all the other children already had it or are they going to get Spots for an unwanted present? Sometimes I let children back before the spots have scabbed over if other parents say they don't mind (they are more contagious before the spots come out), but I think I would stick to the NHS and Health Authority website guidance on this one, otherwise if they do come out in spots for Xmas, parents would be blaming you for having child back too soon.

[Georgiepoo]

My family have all had chicken pox but my other mindee hasn't. This is the second time the child has had it too and I am hearing of this more and more!
Mum works at hospital and is a paramedic so she should be well aware if the exclusion periods.
My exclusion periods follow the NHS and it's 7 days from when first spots come out so won't be having him this week, will be back for 2 then his mum has 2 weeks off over Xmas so wants to keep him home.

So this month I will be being paid for 4 1/2 weeks having only had him for a 1 1/2 weeks! I feel bad but if I wasn't charging then I wouldn't be able to pay my bills!

[AliceK]

I charge the same as you. If I am available to work and it is a contracted day then they pay regardless of why the child is not with me. I have to remind myself that when I worked in an office, I was self employed, my DS got chicken pox and sent home, I had to still pay my childminder. When I went on holiday I still had to pay her even though as a SE person I was not receiving any wages. Don't get soft. You are running a business and I'm sure you're not doing it for fun. You have bills to pay!!!

xxxx

[KateA]

Hi, I am the same I charge if they are sick or on holiday. Its unfortunate they have been ill and then on holiday but its not your fault why should you lose money. If you say to them dont pay now they will expect it again in the future,

[rickysmiths]

I charge full fee for their sickness and holidays.

[FloraDora]

I charge full for holidays and sickness, but I negotiate if long term sickness. I would be prepared for mum asking you to have him a few times after Christmas though as she may be in need of some time on her own by then having cared for a sick child and organised Christmas!

[clareelizabeth1]

I just had a child go on holiday for 5 weeks I still got full pay I did feel slightly guilty as they had only started a month ago but they wanted the space so they have to pay unless I am on holiday or ill

[TinyTinker]

I charge half fees for their holiday and half for ours! full if they're sick, none if we are.

[Rubybubbles]

I work on if I open full fee, if I am closed no fee so if a child is ill/on holiday/picked up early etc full fee still applies

For the past 6 weeks I have had at least 1 child I'll and feel the same with regards to feeling bad for charging But- not too bad haha!!

I close tomorrow evening for my own christmas hols and just know I'm going to crash as I've held on for so long not getting ill from the lovely monkeys!!

[bunyip]

I charge full fee for a sickness absence.

I charge nothing for my holiday (tbf, I don't expect my electrician to pop round and surcharge me a few extra quid on the work he did earlier in the year cos he's off to Spain next week. :p ) It just strikes me as a weird thing for self-employed people to do, but then CMing has to be the weirdest sector I've ever encountered. :jump for joy:

TTO parents pay for...er...what it says on the tin: term time only. No sneaky little holiday retainers, but I do expect them to pay for the whole term, so no sneaky little let-offs cos the child goes to a party or playday at cousin Billy's to save Mummy the price of a new hairdo. :mad:

My all-year-round contracts offer all parents the equivalent of 4 weeks unpaid absence. I get sick of hearing mums at toddler group saying, "I'm off work next week but still sending little Rupert to his CM. She charges me, so I might as well use it." I'm not sure I like that attitude, but I can't exactly blame them if thy want to get something they're paying for. Personally, I don't want to incentivise that way of thinking/acting.

One big factor for me is that I hear considerable evidence that making parents pay for something they're not getting is one of the biggest reasons why clients feel aggrieved about childcare costs. To me, it makes perfect sense to not P-off my clients.

BUT: this is me, my business and my way of doing it. It isn't the only way or the only 'right' way. We're all self-employed grown-ups and decide for ourselves and for our own reasons.

[natlou82]

I just wanted to say that bunyip you've given me food for thought with your pricing structure. I currently don't charge if I'm closed and full fee if I'm open. I do find increasingly that parents are at home chilling on their xbox etc why I take care of their little darlings, it's an odd concept to me as I've always treasured any time with my LOs. But I can see their point they've paid so might as well use me. I would be worried that parents would decide to take holidays at a similar time and I would struggle financially. How have you found it works for you?

[bunyip]

I've never exactly had a fixed fee. Everything is open to negotiation, as no 2 families ever want exactly the same thing. I do have sort of 'guide prices' though, which act as a point from which to thrash things out. I've had to tighten up a little bit, learning from experience, especially with school runs.

I find parents moan a lot about the experience they've had with other CMs round here. I'm the first to admit this is a very broad gneralisation, though I'm willing to bet it's not merely a local phenomenon. CMs try to look 'inexpensive' (and I may say frequently end up looking 'cheap' in the wrong sense of the word :( ) by advertising a low 'headline' rate. This attracts clients: so far, so good. The trouble is, they then charge lots of 'extras': meals, trips, toddler groups, holiday retainers, etc. etc. and parents end up thoroughly miffed and feel the CM isn't being straight with them. (It also gives LAs a let-off when it comes to providing ridiculously low rates for funded hours :mad:, but that's a whole nother issue.)

OK, now I fully understand why a lot of CMs work this way, and many are not trying to hide any of these 'extra' charges in any way. But it's about using a bit of business/common sense. We can justify fees policies all we like, but if it's brassing off the customer, are we doing ourselves any favours? Perception is important (as Gerald Ratner found out, the substance may be the same but what people think about it can matter just as much.) It's surely going to be a struggle to look like you're running a first-class service on an EasyJet pricing plan. :huh:

It also seems to be uniquely peculiar to the weird and sometimes wonderful world of childcare. Virtually every other self-employed person on the planet, looks at all their fixed costs when working out a plain and simple pricing structure; and that includes the realisation that they'd like to eat for 52 weeks of the year, even if they aren't working for 4 of them, so factor in a bit of holiday pay into the hours they are working. (I'd say "it's not rocket science", but that's one of the most irritating modern aphorisms: rocket science is actually one of the most straightforward branches of science its possible to study.)

This may be just me, but I do find something distasteful about following a child round with a waiter's pad, adding a few pennies to the bill every time they grab a banana. I kinda believe I'm trusted with a child's well-being and, well, that does mean feeding them occasionally. OK, maybe I'm overstating the problem, but I encounter some pretty unpleasant stuff from local CMs. I know one who pays £1 total to take 3 lo's to my toddler group. She charges each family £1 (thereby making a simple £2 profit from attending a voluntary-run group, and getting her tea and biccies for nothing.) She sees no moral problem with this, claiming "the parents would have to pay it if they bothered to take their own child". I personally think her attitude stinks to high heaven, but then I'm not allowed to criticise a fellow 'professional' am I? :mad:

My 'guide price' rate therefore tends to look uncompetitive (or it did until all the local CMs caught up with it, and they still keep charging for all the little extras on top, so it may not be long before I have to review my charges - I digress). It probably put a few prospective clients off. But it does mean my clients always know exactly what they're getting for their money and I don't get a lot of grief about it once they've signed.

All the extra charges do cause a lot of tension with parents: most of all paying for time when the child isn't attending (ie. holidays, etc.) CMs may think their clients are perfectly happy with it, but can they have no idea what's being said behind their backs. I've heard it at toddler groups, playground chat, etc. even if they won't say it to their CM's face. :(

[natlou82]

Thankyou :-) and I'm sorry for hijacking the OPs thread. I probably will stick to what I am doing at present as it does seem to work for me. I do think I'm very fair to my clients in lots of ways eg:- no retainers for TTO like yourself (I actually have holiday only children that take those spaces) and I also offer an all inclusive price meals, toddler groups etc. We do all know where we stand which is very important.

[ziggy]

I charge a daily fee which is payable for contracted days unless I am given 4 weeks notice (then half fee is payable) I dont provide food but I do pay for all outings and groups.

I dont charge at all if I am closed, sorry but I feel if I'm not available then it seems unfair to charge.