CMs forum and ....agencies...and 4Children!

[Simona]

Next Monday in my LA cms have their first forum...especially for us...'just us' no one else....WOW!!! :rolleyes:
Should I jump for joy or ask why we have been so 'lucky' of this special attention and separated from the rest of the sector who attend another forum just for them?
what is the plan behind all this?....I know I am a bit suspicious

I was looking forward to it...lots of questions to ask about support and funding etc etc and especially as my LA originally applied to become an agency but lost in the 1st round and are now looking at the updates for future reference...so far so good :jump for joy:

Until the email yesterday.......... informing cms we are 'fortunate' to have Sue Robb...CEO of 4 Children and DfE strategic partner, coming to give us an update on childminding and agencies...now we are talking!! and I am doubly suspicious! :panic:

For those not aware 4 Children has been given a hefty grant...last year and this current one.... to 'facilitate' agencies and to 'bring together day care providers and CMs to develop a financially sustainable model for more flexible childcare'...I am reading this from the official list of charities awarded money to do work for the DfE not from memory

So...the plot thickens...will we be brainwashed into agencies by 4 Children...the questions are now piling in my head...thank God I have until Monday night to jot them down...if you have any you want me to ask please share...all too happy to put them to Sue Robb and see if she has some answers!...but don't hold your breath!

[Mouse]

Hmm...will be very interesting to hear what she has to say. I'll look forward to your feedback, Simona.

[sarah707]

There have been a few of these meetings reported - they start innocuously enough and then turn into agency fests - cms are told that agencies are the only way to go and they will get absolutely nothing unless they join (or fail at inspection).

It's a shocking way for so called professionals to work :( I am also looking forward to hearing your feedback :D

[Kiddleywinks]

They tried sneaking agencies in and failed, they used bullyboy tactics to get agencies in and succeeded
No surprise they'll use the tactics that worked to get people to join :angry:

[Simona]

There have been a few of these meetings reported - they start innocuously enough and then turn into agency fests - cms are told that agencies are the only way to go and they will get absolutely nothing unless they join (or fail at inspection).

It's a shocking way for so called professionals to work :( I am also looking forward to hearing your feedback :D

I read your response a few times and it feels to me like 'blackmail' if indeed CMs are being told that agencies are the only way forward and unless cms join them they risk failing an inspection?
I wonder who invented that little gem of a tactic and why CMs are not reporting it as pure underhand? and I wonder what CMs will do about it?

Are CMs aware that Sue Robb was actually present at the Truss meeting with the 4 Associations back in March?

I am sure that these meetings are taking place as 4 Children will now have to show how their grant is being used and paving the way for more agencies to come forward....but I feel there is more behind that...my interpretation of course but those I have spoken to share

If meetings have taken place it is also a shame they have not been openly discussed to alert other cms....have we heard anything from those who are now helping to ensure that agencies offer good quality and have a good support framework in place?

While I agree that it is shocking to behave like that and totally unprofessional CMs have 2 choices...either put up and walk away or become proactive and look ahead and not bury their heads in just saying 'I wish to remain independent'

We have been aware for a long time that no one in govt is behaving with integrity or democratically ...using underhand tactics to get their policies through and waiving consultation after consultation under our nose in the hope we could be fooled?

I will certainly have a very interesting meeting on Monday night...and already armed with wonderful questions

For those not aware Truss has refused to reply to a question put by Lucy Powell MP on the number of agencies that are to be established but...unfortunately...while she dodged that question she had to give a reply on the cost of 'evaluating' the agencies after the trials...that is enough ammunition for cms to react and certainly a topic of discussion on Monday night

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 09 Apr 2014 (pt 0002) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140409/text/140409w0002.htm#1404103000121)

[Simona]

Trio Childcare are at this very moment giving a seminar on agencies at the #nursery2primary show ...which I think is in London

I am following on twitter the questions and answers...Trio say agencies are like networks

I'll keep you posted if anything comes up but the selling of agencies has started by those who are to become one....joy!!

[jackie 7]

I went to it it was in Bournemouth. It was presented by julia hinns. It was interesting by how little she knows. She said that in September there may be only 3-4 agencies in place but they might not be up and running. Many of the pilot agencies wont be going on to rhn sn agency as thry wont make a profit. She wants the agencies to grade cms the same as ofsted not red green etc.
it won't be a 1 size fits all cms can be self employed of employed. Nurseries as agencies might want cms to act as bank staff. Not all agencies will understand the needs of cms.
The benifits are
Act like the old quality improvement networks.
Tailor training to minders needs
2 visits each year to monitor quality
Will provide
Membership subscriptions- didn't say to what
Insurance
Buisness resources such as contracts etc
C p d
Training.

Agencies can charge what they like
Agency grading by ofsted will not be the same as the one given by agency but if agency gets below good it will affect their ability to provide funded places

Agencies will be inspected on their paperwork and some cms picked at random. She asked that ofsted inspect each year but hasn't been told yet
She doesn't know if cms can leave an agency and become Independant.

She was asked how agencies would reduce the cost of child care, she shrugged her shoulders and said nothing. I took that to mean she thinks it won't.
She repeated that we would not be made to join an agency but everything such as the cost of ofsted she said that this is how it is now but it can change. Everything was this is for now and it is a question of wait and see.
Even though she was working with the dept of ed and ET it seemed that so very little is known. She said that everyone will be working hard over The summer trying to get everything in place.
I am sure I missed loads but it wasn't very long.

[Kiddleywinks]

Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated.

What a mess this governments ministers are making for the professionals that will still be here actually doing the job, long after they've moved on.
All this should have been drafted long before any trials took place, long before any changes were made to the law, and even now there are no firm decisions, still flapping about in the wind, and we're left to muddle on.

Remember the grief and uncertainty we have been subjected to these last 2 years, and have yet to deal with, when polling day comes!

[Simona]

Yes it was Bournemouth not London where the show was....

I have just returned from our meeting with Sue Robb and our LA...and a whole evening of talking about agencies
I think I need time to digest what I have heard ...or not before I can feedback
I can't say I came home enlightened...
My personal view...everything is a mess!

[tori4]

Yes it was Bournemouth not London where the show was.... I have just returned from our meeting with Sue Robb and our LA...and a whole evening of talking about agencies I think I need time to digest what I have heard ...or not before I can feedback I can't say I came home enlightened... My personal view...everything is a mess!

Looking forward to hearing your feedback from today xT

[Simona]

Looking forward to hearing your feedback from today xT

The message I would like to pass on to cms upon reflection on the meeting is this...please stay out of agencies !

It appears to me nothing is being sorted out...we are against them and have always been...we do not need them or want them....boycott them and hope they fail!!

[hectors house]

When we had our meeting with 4Children as guest speakers at our county childminding conference, Sue Robb was supposed to speak but couldn't attend so someone else had to take her place - she couldn't answer any of our questions properly as the conference was only 2 days after the Childcare Bill had been passed - however from Simone and Jackie7's posts it doesn't seem like anything has changed over the last 7 weeks, they still are talking out of their :censored:

[Mouse]

They keep saying they're not going to have a set format for agencies as they want the market to decide on that it's self. It really does go to show that they have no idea how agencies are going to work, they have no interest in coming up with models and they're just hoping it'll all sort itself out by trial and error. That's no good for anyone :panic:

[Simona]

They keep saying they're not going to have a set format for agencies as they want the market to decide on that it's self. It really does go to show that they have no idea how agencies are going to work, they have no interest in coming up with models and they're just hoping it'll all sort itself out by trial and error. That's no good for anyone :panic:

My interpretation is not that it has to do with the models or format...but with the way they are regulated, location, inspections, quality of staff, what they will do for cms, costs and what options cms have to opt in and out...nothing seems clear and we are only 4 months away from them being a viable proposition

I would not opt into anything that has not been 'tried and tested'...keep off them at all costs.

[primula]

There seems to be no interest from any agencies in our locality so far.. I would have thought by now we would have seen some sort of promotional literature or a meeting?? There is only 4months to go?! I really don't understand how agencies will make any money anyway? They will need a lot of parents and childminders to join to charge them fees, cannot see it working at all?.

[Simona]

There seems to be no interest from any agencies in our locality so far.. I would have thought by now we would have seen some sort of promotional literature or a meeting?? There is only 4months to go?! I really don't understand how agencies will make any money anyway? They will need a lot of parents and childminders to join to charge them fees, cannot see it working at all?.

Agencies are being 'evaluated' at the moment at a very high cost...according to the answer recently given by Truss in Parliament to her opposite MP.

if....say... I wanted to set up an agency ..I think I would want to see this first...would you not?

Agencies will pop up all of a sudden and from unexpected sources or big companies....a view I think others share too.

[Smiley]

I have discovered this evening that Sue Rob will be coming to talk to childminders in my LA about agencies in late September.

[Simona]

I have discovered this evening that Sue Rob will be coming to talk to childminders in my LA about agencies in late September.

Uh uh!!! wonder why?...promoting a lost cause?...flogging a dead horse?
Would like to read your feedback :thumbsup:

Following Sue Robb's recent presentation to Cms in my LA the LA have sent us a survey because they are considering setting up an agency
The survey was laughable as were the questions :angry:

[Kiddleywinks]

The survey was laughable as were the questions :angry:

Oh please share Simona :thumbsup:

[bunyip]

If anyone is going to one of these events, they ought to ask for clarification on why 4children are saying CMs will fail inspection unless they are under an agency.

On what grounds are they making that assertion?

Do they know something we don't (in which case, pray tell...?) or are they just making it up. It would, of course, be 'unprofessional' to say "lying."

The only logical answer I can figure is that they're implying their in-house inspection of CMs contracted to their agency will be, er.... now I suppose the 'professional' description might be "somewhat less rigorous" than Ofsted's inspection of independent CMs. I hesitate to use terms such as "auto-pass", "fix", "rigged" or "cheating", as that would be 'highly unprofessional' - which is the description reserved within 'the profession' for anything which is absolutely true. :p

[Simona]

If anyone is going to one of these events, they ought to ask for clarification on why 4children are saying CMs will fail inspection unless they are under an agency.

On what grounds are they making that assertion?

Do they know something we don't (in which case, pray tell...?) or are they just making it up. It would, of course, be 'unprofessional' to say "lying."

The only logical answer I can figure is that they're implying their in-house inspection of CMs contracted to their agency will be, er.... now I suppose the 'professional' description might be "somewhat less rigorous" than Ofsted's inspection of independent CMs. I hesitate to use terms such as "auto-pass", "fix", "rigged" or "cheating", as that would be 'highly unprofessional' - which is the description reserved within 'the profession' for anything which is absolutely true. :p

Bunyip...I have to admit I have not heard that one and I think CMs are being inspected right now and getting good and outstanding grades...so that maybe is a bit of a rumour?

Had they mentioned that at our meeting I certainly would have raised questions as would the cms who attended the meeting well prepared and taken it further
Sorry not sure what you mean by their in-house inspection? whose inspection do you mean? the agency or 4Children?
One thing that is for sure is that agency cms will have an advantage in terms of support over non agency cms who will have NIL!!

My understanding of the agency saga is that they will be inspected on how they support cms and increase quality....so far I have not seen anything based on EYFS, practice or care of the children just...paperwork.
Has anyone seen anything else? I doubt it because all has gone quiet...again....those in the know appear tight lipped


Kiddleywinks...I assume you are referring to the questionnaire?
We were told we would be surveyed alongside the parents as they want to consider the agency route possibly based on their past network

We got an email about this too only for me to be missed and I found out the consultation was done and dusted
I requested a link and also found out it had been closed...anyway I managed to get a link in the end and was promised mine would be considered but all the results were already collected and ...I think digested?

The 1st part asked parents would they consider an agency..yes ...no ...don't know
then it gave additional boxes to tick for them to choose services above the core offer'...but no core offer explained...what they could tick was: babysitting service, mediation in a dispute, ad hoc care, holiday care and a FACEBOOK page...I nearly fell off my chair when I saw this
Last what would they be prepared to pay for this offer and would they consider paying a tiered fee ?


our part asked exactly the same and again no mention of the key offer when it asked what would we be prepared to pay annually for services above the core offer...at this point I realised this was a waste of time

Services we could have in addition to the not mentioned 'core offer' are:
PLI, Drop in for cms, conferences, documents, invoicing service, mediation in disputes, discounts in shops, training above the core offer (not sure what the training core offer is)...quality assurance to improve our grade and last but not least...a FACEBOOK page for support :laughing:

It looks like they do not know what model to have and are asking for suggestions...my hope is that cms offered very little and stay independent ...as for the additional services they can be obtained right now without an agency.

[Mouse]

4children are very quiet in our area...and so they should be. They took over a 'good' nursery and within a couple of months it was graded inadequate. Monitoring visits have been going on for a year and it still hasn't met all of the requirements. I hope they wouldn't dare suggest setting themselves up as an agency :panic:

[rickysmiths]

If anyone is going to one of these events, they ought to ask for clarification on why 4children are saying CMs will fail inspection unless they are under an agency.

On what grounds are they making that assertion?

Do they know something we don't (in which case, pray tell...?) or are they just making it up. It would, of course, be 'unprofessional' to say "lying."

The only logical answer I can figure is that they're implying their in-house inspection of CMs contracted to their agency will be, er.... now I suppose the 'professional' description might be "somewhat less rigorous" than Ofsted's inspection of independent CMs. I hesitate to use terms such as "auto-pass", "fix", "rigged" or "cheating", as that would be 'highly unprofessional' - which is the description reserved within 'the profession' for anything which is absolutely true. :p

But of course because they will want good grades for their Inspections. They won't be able to be too easy though because there will be snap shot inspections of individual childminders as well.

We are in Herts and there was a meeting a few months ago which a chosen few cm went to and Hearts said they were going to become an Agency but they wanted to know from us how we wanted it run?????? My view is if a local LA Early Years Dept has no idea how to begin to set up an 'Agency' unless they at least make the effort to consult with all the cm in the County then why on earth should I help them to form something I don't want anyway????? The initial view is that they want us all to remain Individually Registered with Ofsted so that means they will actually not be an Agency at all so goodness know what is going on.

Edited because of my terrible spelling!!! :laughing:

[Simona]

If anyone would like to input in an agency discussion come and join the Nursery World linkdedin page

There is a very interesting thread there started by someone who is opening a community agency...lots of views and not just from CMs