Worrying Ofsted inspection outcome...

[sarah707]

We are discussing a worrying inspection outcome on our Independent Childminders Facebook group today...

A childminder was told by her inspector that she had to use the car for school runs because she was keeping the children out of the house for too long and she wasn't providing them with enough learning experiences while they were sat in the buggy... the school is about a 1 mile walk and she explained to the inspector how they did all sorts of games while they were out and some children took it in turns to practice walking etc...

Members of our FB group are horrified!

I have to say I thought something like this might happen with the focus of inspections now being on how much we teach children - but... :ohdear:

[PixiePetal]

I don't drive and don't do school runs but do take mindees to local farm park. I walk to end of lane - 10 mins, bus to town - 10 mins, wait for connecting bus - 30 mins, walk from bus stop to farm park - 10 mins. So an hour in the buggy, even longer on the return trip due to connections or lack of them!

Does this now mean I shouldn't go?! We get a good few hours there, chat on the buses, in the 30 min wait might go to supermarket for snacks/picnic bits, meet people in the community and have a great day. Obviously not every day :)

When my own kids were young it took me that long to get to school and back - couldn't leave them there!

I despair :angry:

[Rick]

It slightly horrifies me to be honest. On one hand we are being told we should be teaching children about exercise with an emphasis to being outside, and on the other that we should keep children indoors to do activities. In my opinion they learn more from seeing the outside world and asking questions rather than reading a book or doing an indoor activity.

I do a similar school run by foot and always think how lucky the children are because they get fresh air and get to see the world around them, rather than be ferried about in a car

[tulip0803]

When I lived in Essex we walked 1/2 mile to school, back past house and then 1/2 mile in opposite direction for nursery then back again. Chatting and communicating all the way. Learning how to cross roads safely, counting cars, counting door colours, looking for birds & squirrels in the woods, If lucky the air ambulance landed or took off from the hospital we passed (not for the passenger though), Looking for certain letters as we walked, writing with sticks in the mud, dust on side of cycle track!

Not enough learning opportunities Hmm

Have to drive now and hate it would prefer to walk but no footpath.

[AdeleMarie88]

I don't drive, and similarly to previous post, because of my location,the school run is 45minute round trip, sometimes more if weather/bad moods stall us. However I think the learning possibilities during this trip are huge, we see so much, and talk about endless amounts. I feel if I was to drive I would have less time to talk to the children about things!!

This worries me, I haven't any intention of learning to drive yet,I hope this doesn't become common practice amongst inspectors!!

[shortstuff]

All I can say is oh my! What is comimg next?

[Tealady]

I do drive and due to two drops and getting children in and out of car and dithering with their friends I am out of the house for 45mins to hour.

The day I get marked down for this is the day I quit!

[Tealady]

Maybe we shouldn't let them sleep either as they are loosing learning time then!

....or even eat.

This has annoyed me beyond belief!

[blue bear]

How silly just getting into the double buggy is a learning experience, next to, right, left, fast slow etc, never mind the journey to school, door numbers, pelican crossing, birds, eye spy colours, singing, the inspector obviously has no imagination and no clue how children learn.
I'd go absolutely ape if they told me I ought to drive.

[lilac_dragon]

I'm gobsmacked to say the least!
Had to check it wasn't April 1st.

All the comments on here are so true, surely Ofsted can't really think they can get away with this!!
I also am a non-driver so our school run takes an hour out of our time if we go straight there and back and don't stop for shopping - writing lists, counting the fruit, weighing things, no learning there then!
Or go to the Library - don't be silly, how could any child learn something in a Library tut tut silly me, I must take them home immediately.
What about the children that I walk to the school Nursery daily - should I not take them? If I can't walk them there, they'll just have to not attend.
I also do that Outside in the Wood childcare (sorry, trying not to get starred out) which of course is based - outside! and not at my house! Double crime!!!

Does it make you want to cry?
Have the newspapers got hold of this? - if they haven't, we should tell them!

[jolliesdean]

This is stupid, I've just left working for the nhs in mental health and know all to well that this sector within community and learning disability sector are spending ++++ time and money in ensuring independence and social skills . One being healthy lifestyle walking , environment ect. If this was promoted at younger age it would be a foundation for them later on. On the other hand was the inspector picking up that children are out all day every day, Which some do from 9 am until 330 . when home time is also vital learning time.

[SYLVIA]

What did this childminder say in return to this stupid comment? I would go seriously bonkers at that remark. For the past 2 years I have had to do school runs in the car as preschool was too far away to get to after school drop off. I can now walk 3 days a week and one afternoon, and the children have never chatted as much as they do when we walk. They ask to walk and the exercise is so good for them. Total nonsense!

[Simona]

We are discussing a worrying inspection outcome on our Independent Childminders Facebook group today...

A childminder was told by her inspector that she had to use the car for school runs because she was keeping the children out of the house for too long and she wasn't providing them with enough learning experiences while they were sat in the buggy... the school is about a 1 mile walk and she explained to the inspector how they did all sorts of games while they were out and some children took it in turns to practice walking etc...

Members of our FB group are horrified!

I have to say I thought something like this might happen with the focus of inspections now being on how much we teach children - but... :ohdear:

Are all day nurseries going to be banned from taking young children out in their buggies to experience the 'outdoors' from now on? :mad:

[samb]

Woah! It's a 2 mile round walk for my school runs! I usually drive half of them and walk half of them. I am out of the house for about as long in the car as I am walking cos it takes so long to get children and buggies in and out of cars. This is 2 schools about 2/3 mile apart. I feel guilty on days that I drive and worry I should be walking more as we tend to do more "learning" things when we are walking, more interaction and more fresh air and exercise.

[dawn100]

That's just ridiculous! I mostly walk but if its pouring with rain I will drive, there and back it takes me 50mins walking, if I drive there and back with two EY children with the getting them in and out of car seats, finding a parking place etc it takes me 45 mins round trip so saves me 5 mins time however I think the children benefit more from me walking and interacting but when the weather is awful will drive to benefit the older ones who would get soaked. If an inspector tried to tell me I should drive instead of walk I would have to defend my reasons. All the local schools and council have so many different incentives including walk on Wednesday and walk to school week to encourage children walking and then ofsted goes against all this - does this surprise me sadly not!

[Mouse]

Blimey, it would be interesting to see how that's written in the inspection report.

Has the cm questioned it?

[sing-low]

This has made me hopping mad and then I remembered vaguely hearing something about it being UK government policy to consider the environment (positive/negative impact) in all decisions. After a bit of web-surfing I found the following:
https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/making-sustainable-development-a-part-of-all-government-policy-and-operations

I don't have time right now to dig into the legalities of this but my first thought is that Ofsted is a government department so their policy should include sustainable development. Insisting that cms must drive instead of walk is not sustainable development.

[charleyfarley]

In that case should I not take the children in the car on long journeys on special days out in the holidays, it's only the same as being strapped in the buggy.

I walk all school runs, no matter what the weather, about half a mile each way, we pass the farm, so see the cows, sheep, tractors etc. The children are learning so much from our walks, they would miss it all if I took them in the car.

And if we all took the children in the car when we don't really need to don't you think Ofsted would then condemn us for the children having lack of exercise!!! No win situation really!!!

As long as we do what we think is best for our children and the children are happy, that's what counts.

Carol xxx

[Rubybubbles]

It's barmey I have seen the facebook thread.

I walk everywhere even though I can drive

Funny enough though, this came up in my recent ffcers course as if a child is in a pushchair for longer than 20mins a day you get marked down for it- we all scoffed laughed as every childminder in the room walks that at least every day! Crazy crazy!

The only thing for me is the post was "my friend" I am fed up of hearing here say, does that make sense?

[Mouse]

It's barmey I have seen the facebook thread.

I walk everywhere even though I can drive

Funny enough though, this came up in my recent ffcers course as if a child is in a pushchair for longer than 20mins a day you get marked down for it- we all scoffed laughed as every childminder in the room walks that at least every day! Crazy crazy!

The only thing for me is the post was "my friend" I am fed up of hearing here say, does that make sense?

I didn't see the post, so assumed it was the childminder herself posting it. That might make a bit of a difference. Often you don't get the whole story when it's hearsay.

[charlottenash]

Few issues I have with this.

1. What if you don't drive?

2. We stay out of the car as much as is humanly possible, I use maybe once a week if we go somewhere not accessible by foot

3. The few times I have driven to school, I've had to park so far away to be legally parked it takes me just as long to walk it anyway

4. The school asks we don't drive unless absolutely necessary, so who do we listen to?

CHILDREN NEED TO BE OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!! It's an absolute joke that they can say they are not learning! We learn so much on our school run as well as making friends for mindees because little brothers and sisters, other CMs walk the same route! 18mo mindee walks there and back but at home won't walk far, because she is surrounded by similar age children they all walk nicely together and are forming friendships!

[hectors house]

My argument is that Ofsted won't come out with us to see what happens on a school run or a trip to the woods for a walk (whether it be in a buggy or a car), if they did, they would see the communication and learning that happens - when children are in the car with parents they watch DVD's, when they are with me, we play "spotting" games, I Spy, identifying cables over the roads and fields (phone and electric cables). My friend says when she is following me in the car that she can tell it is me, because she can see my arms pointing everywhere, pointing out vehicles, cows, trees etc. If I am walking I am doing the same, we stop and look at spiders webs and nature, we have a listening walk, we look at house numbers and street signs.

[lilac_dragon]

Another couple of thoughts:-
If we don't let the children walk to school, how are they going to learn about crossing roads safely, particularly when they need to be able to do this when they're old enough to go out and about or walk to school by themselves? This is something we teach them when we're out and about particularly as most parents zoom around in their cars all the time.

Also, there's been some threads here recently from people asking about los they only have for a couple of hours a day/week/month and what obs they need to do etc- what about them? If the child is only with them a short time and their time is during a school take/collect period (I have one)then should we refuse to take them on in the first place in case Ofsted downgrade us?

[Simona]

May I ask for all of us to consider this very carefully ...

Once again we have a report about a cm receiving a ...lets call it dubious....outcome at her/his inspection
None of us have seen the report or know exactly what happened...this again has been discussed on Facebook and reported here to share information...all it will lead to is speculation as the CM herself is not involved in this discussion nor can she clarify what has happened

If this CM is really worried abut what she has been told will she report to anyone?
does she know what to do if unhappy with her inspection? will she do anything at all when there are plenty of guidance out there for her to raise the matter?
will she inform any of the representing associations who can raise it even if she is not a member of any of them?

While it is good to share and discuss we cannot achieve anything unless the CMs who are unhappy at their inspections become pro-active and do something about it and let those who can ask relevant questions do so at the right level.

OfstedBigConversation will soon take off again and all the Ofsted Directors will be directly involved in the meetings...this is where the matter has to be raised and brought to their attention as well as making it known that this judgement is totally wrong and proving inspectors are still out there passing unhelpful comments at inspections

We are facing many reforms as cms ...we must unite and speak up when these kind of things happen...the forum has a sister in the shape of the FB page, some CMs are not on FB, some CMs are happy in both groups but I do not feel we are really sharing information and are in danger of letting the few speak up for the majority

This is my personal view of course

[primula]

It really does depend also on where you live doesn't it? In town most school runs are reasonably short but in the country to get to school I guess you could have to walk a mile there and back. It is for each minder to gauge what they think is a reasonable time spent in travelling with little ones. It could be 40mins or so to school then to drop-ins and shopping, back to school, is a long time spent in the buggy for a baby, it all about balance to me!

[LauraS]

It really does depend also on where you live doesn't it? In town most school runs are reasonably short but in the country to get to school I guess you could have to walk a mile there and back. It is for each minder to gauge what they think is a reasonable time spent in travelling with little ones. It could be 40mins or so to school then to drop-ins and shopping, back to school, is a long time spent in the buggy for a baby, it all about balance to me!

I agree, its hard to judge without full info. If the cm has to walk a mile, then do a staggered drop off or wait around, then a mile back it could take a long time. If she does the school run three times a day for a lunchtime pickup it could mean a baby being in a buggy for three hours a day plus any time spent getting to groups or trips. Whilst being outside is valuable and educational, that would be excessive.

It's so hard to know the context. If inspector was querying lack of activities planned for example, and cm said that there is little time for activities because of daily routine... I can see how the outcome might have arisen.

[AliceK]

My argument is that Ofsted won't come out with us to see what happens on a school run or a trip to the woods for a walk (whether it be in a buggy or a car), if they did, they would see the communication and learning that happens - when children are in the car with parents they watch DVD's, when they are with me, we play "spotting" games, I Spy, identifying cables over the roads and fields (phone and electric cables). My friend says when she is following me in the car that she can tell it is me, because she can see my arms pointing everywhere, pointing out vehicles, cows, trees etc. If I am walking I am doing the same, we stop and look at spiders webs and nature, we have a listening walk, we look at house numbers and street signs.

Ofsted did come out with me to do a nursery pick-up. On the walk there we talked about the children I was collecting, their personalities (1 was V shy around strangers) and where they were in their development / ELG's. On the walk back with the children she just observed us and obviously listened to the things we were talking about. In my report it talks about how I keep the children safe and their knowledge about road safety and my reminders about road safety.
Mind you I think I did have a very down to earth, real and common sense inspector :thumbsup:

xxxx

[silvermist]

I do drive and due to two drops and getting children in and out of car and dithering with their friends I am out of the house for 45mins to hour.

The day I get marked down for this is the day I quit!

Same here! Ridiculous! :(

[nipper]

Wonder if the inspector actually accompanied the childminder on her walk to school? Like AliceK says, doesn't sound as if they actually have time to do this very often. Most of my parents like the fact we get out and about in the fresh air....what about if that journey involves a bus or train ride (sorry if this has already been mentioned, I'm reading this thread quickly).