Contracted Hours or Average Hours worked for accounts?

[Rubybaby]

I wonder if anyone has the definitive answer to this when working out their heating/lighting percentages?
I've been entering heating/lighting percentages each month based on actual hours worked,but
last tax return I nearly went into accounts meltdown trawling through my attendance register and totting up all the quarter and half hours the kids were actually physically here, then averaging it all out to get an accurate 'hours worked', and then I saw something somewhere here about simply using contracted hours instead.

PLEASE someone tell me it's fine to use contracted hours before I go into freak out mode (haven't looked at averaging my heating/lighting bills either so may be another saga!)
Thank you all in advance!

[tulip0803]

Sorry I went on a HMRC course and they said it was actual hours worked not contracted.

I have started using this accounts spreadsheet that works it out for you :clapping: - http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/book-keeping-accounts-tax-expenses-national-insurance/104599-book-keeping-excel-workbook.html it was kindly put on by Happytoddlers go to post 48 for this years sheet :thumbsup:

Put in your monthly bill costs - put in your daily hours and magic it does all the hard work!!!

[The Juggler]

Sorry I went on a HMRC course and they said it was actual hours worked not contracted.



that doesn't seem to make sense. It would if you only charged for attended hours and that you werent' working at all if that particular child wasn't there . Normally if a child doesn't attend there is another one or two there anyway. And say Child A is here 0800-1600 and Child B is here 3-6pm you still work from 0800-6pm so you don't need to really work on individual children.

I would count the number of hours I work from when I open the door to when I close each day as a rough guide.

However, if I am contracted to work til 6pm and a parent picks up at 5.50 I'm not going to dock those minutes off my working year unless it happens every day.:panic:

[Rubybaby]

Thanks both...my dilemma is this...
Child A contracted 10 hours a day, 4 days a week (mon-thurs) =40 hours so 33%
Child B contracted 4.5 hours a day 5 days a week for 3 months.If I only count the fridays within that period when Child B here without other child being present, i can factor in those extra hours too, but wouldn't because max hours a week have been reached already by Child A.
BUT..if i go by ACTUAL hours, adding up both childs hours and averaging out then reduces the percentage of heat/light costs I can claim.
I want to get it right (and done and dusted!) but am really confused now!!
Tulip..that's a great tip, thanks.. at moment pc is upstairs (and temperamental )and all my stuff downstairs! will sort by next tax year!

[tulip0803]

that doesn't seem to make sense. It would if you only charged for attended hours and that you werent' working at all if that particular child wasn't there . Normally if a child doesn't attend there is another one or two there anyway. And say Child A is here 0800-1600 and Child B is here 3-6pm you still work from 0800-6pm so you don't need to really work on individual children.

I would count the number of hours I work from when I open the door to when I close each day as a rough guide.

However, if I am contracted to work til 6pm and a parent picks up at 5.50 I'm not going to dock those minutes off my working year unless it happens every day.:panic:

That's what I meant - actual hours worked not contracted hours. Sorry it was late and I did not explain well. Today I start at 8 and finish at 3 so work 7 hours. But contractually I am charging from 8-6 (10 hours).

child 1 - 8.00 - 11.00 (charging contracted 8.00 - 17.30)
child 2 - 9.00 - 15.00
Child 3 - 9.00 -15.00
Child 4 - not in (charging contracted 10.00 - 1800)

I can only claim 7 hours actually working today for percentage purposes, tomorrow will be as contracted, Wednesday no hours worked, Thurs & Fri TBC

I round down arrival time so 9.10 is 9 am and up collection so 5.50 is 6pm purely because working in 15 minute blocks makes it calculateable. HMRC suggested that way.

[bunyip]

HMRC will only allow actually hours worked when at least 1 child is present. ie. Your first arrival of the day until the last departure, assuming no 'child-free' periods in between. They don't allow additional time for prep/tidy-up, paperwork, visits from enquirers, etc. either, which seems a bit unfair, but tax matters are never meant to be about "fair" but rather about "rules".

I work out the hours and expense allowances on a weekly basis, as I find this less daunting than trying to do it all in one go at the end of month/year.

It may appear complicated but, believe me, it's a whole lot easier than what most self-employed people working from home have to do, so we CMs are lucky to have a relatively easy calculation to make. :thumbsup:

[Rubybaby]

Ahh I see...thank you for taking the time to explain your methods, Tulip...I've left it all to the last minute as usual but I have a clearer picture now! Much appreciated ...I will probably have lots more questions but off to have a cuppa first ! xx

[The Juggler]

That's what I meant - actual hours worked not contracted hours. Sorry it was late and I did not explain well. Today I start at 8 and finish at 3 so work 7 hours. But contractually I am charging from 8-6 (10 hours).

child 1 - 8.00 - 11.00 (charging contracted 8.00 - 17.30)
child 2 - 9.00 - 15.00
Child 3 - 9.00 -15.00
Child 4 - not in (charging contracted 10.00 - 1800)

I can only claim 7 hours actually working today for percentage purposes, tomorrow will be as contracted, Wednesday no hours worked, Thurs & Fri TBC

I round down arrival time so 9.10 is 9 am and up collection so 5.50 is 6pm purely because working in 15 minute blocks makes it calculateable. HMRC suggested that way.



really so even though a child is normally there for 10 hours a day if, say, a few weeks a year they leave a few hours early, even though they are contracted and we are charging we have to deduct those hours from our average hours over the year OR if a child is sick for a week and they are the ones that leave last we have to knock say 1/2 hour off for that whole week and deduct that from annual hours too?well the tax office will have to sue me cos I never did that in 9 years of minding! :panic:

[tulip0803]

really so even though a child is normally there for 10 hours a day if, say, a few weeks a year they leave a few hours early, even though they are contracted and we are charging we have to deduct those hours from our average hours over the year OR if a child is sick for a week and they are the ones that leave last we have to knock say 1/2 hour off for that whole week and deduct that from annual hours too?well the tax office will have to sue me cos I never did that in 9 years of minding! :panic:

This is what HMRC said when I first registered in 2001. I did another HMRC course in 2008 and was told the same thing. However it would only become a problem if HMRC wanted to check your accounts in full.

They asked for mine in 2004 as I "hadn't earnt as much as the year before" However as I was on maternity leave from November - April they went no further.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

When I used this method I looked at what time I was contracted for. If the child was due to come at 9 I would warm the house up, if they didn't arrive do I loose all the benefit of my expense? No I think I would argue that

I do my expenses based on actual use now not percentages negotiated - wouldn't recommend this if you have your own children at home during the day

[Rubybaby]

Thank you ladies for your replies...it's done and finally submitted having spent a (very long) day on it!! All I can say is thank goodness for this forum ! xxx

[bunyip]

Thank you ladies for your replies...it's done and finally submitted having spent a (very long) day on it!! All I can say is thank goodness for this forum ! xxx

:( Sorry :( Wasn't my contribution at all helpful. :huh:

[tulip0803]

:( Sorry :( Wasn't my contribution at all helpful. :huh:

It was your posh New year party frock that confused her :D

[bunyip]

It was your posh New year party frock that confused her :D

:ROFL1: Ooh, careful Tulip. Nearly split my girdle laughing at that one. :laughing:

[bunyip]

While we're on the subject, will my pre-op expenses be tax-deductable? :huh:

[cathtee]

While we're on the subject, will my pre-op expenses be tax-deductable? :huh:

depends if you take a lo with you :laughing:

[bunyip]

depends if you take a lo with you :laughing:

That would be trauma counselling then..........? :p

[cathtee]

That would be trauma counselling then..........? :p

I charge extra for councelling :laughing: