Have I got the wrong end of the stick? information sharing

[Jods]

Righty-o can be told if I am wrong (maybe!!) - but I am getting frustrated with the pre-school my mindees attend, they are all up for information sharing etc, but its more of a we have written down what we are doing and thats how its being done!! and what you are doing is insignificant!

What they have given me is a list of the 7 areas which they are planning for - of which I know the children are secured developmentally because I have observed them over the last 2 years and have noted it in my LJ, now I use Orbit (and I accept that not everyone does) and I thought if they looked at my LJ's and used this as a baseline to start theirs with, and then I would point out the parts which I have not observed/planned/noted either due to not being a large setting/having some of the resources (access to more different types of construction etc)/and being that developmentally they are now ranging between 20 mths to 40 mths that pre-school could plan to.

So am I expecting:

1. too much communication
2. the wrong thing
3. too much involvement

where as I understand they have their ways or working and will happily adapt to do this - I am also feeling that professionally I should be given the same respect back - I will say this is where I worked for 7 years and was spoken to today as if I am a complete numpty and know nothing!!! so I am cheesed off with this, I will be having a chat with my EYCO over this, but just wanted to be sure/set straight if I am wrong x

[JCrakers]

I think you'll find this is quite a common thing. I gave a letter to the local preschool about sharing info with parental forms etc and the Preschool worker looked at me like Id just asked her to marry me......:laughing:

After trying with another nursery with no joy, now I just have a communication book which goes to and fro. I write info in there about development and interests and they don't write anything :thumbsup:
Ive decided that this book will keep going backwards and forwards and then I can show Ofsted that I have tried. What more can you do?

I also notice that I have never been approached in 6yrs to share info, it always has to come from me making the first move which isn't fair at all.

[Jods]

^^^^^ I suppose thats what I am going to have to do - am printing off a sheet which will form a baseline assessment for them - and will not bother with too much talking in the future x

[loocyloo]

good luck. :rolleyes:

I would smile and walk away and carry on doing my own thing - make sure you get preschool to write/sign something to say they have 'shared' with you. ask them for a copy of their planning for your file ( maybe give them a copy of yours )

my local preschool are all for sharing .... as long as I do all the sharing! the first time i met with them ( at MY instigation ) they asked me to write in their file for child that we had shared; so I wrote how well LO was doing, and we were working on XYZ ... they wrote in my LJ ''fred has a lovely time playing at loocyloos'' :angry: so although I still arrange to meet them, I write 'nothing' comments now. I had another mindee that went to them for 3 hrs a week ... with me 19hrs ... they thought they should do the 2 yr check as they were preschool ... I said i'd already done it before child started attending! I have a 3rd mindee now attending ... and they are not interested in meeting with me at all! although I am more qualified ( except for one staff member ) I am usually treated as if I know nothing. luckily, as ex mindees mum is now working there - so we will see if the attitude improves!

[Mouse]

I'm afraid I put very little effort into it now.

The pre-schools 2 of my mindees go to are out of my area and mindees go on the days I don't have them, so i have no contact with them.

When mindees have started at these pre-schools I have sent my introduction letter along with an assessment summary & the next steps the child will be working on. I re-do this each term with a new assessment. I have never heard anything back from either place. I know I could phone, but what's the point? And more to the point, why should I? They take no notice of what I send, so a phone call isn't going to make much difference. Both mindees are with me for longer than they are at pre-school, but as another poster has said, one pre-school took it upon itself to do the 2yr check. Mindee had been with me for 18mths and comes for 18 hours a week. He had been at pre-school for 6 weeks, doing 6 hours a week. I did ask for a copy of the assessment. but didn't get one.

The most annoying thing is that when i looked at the Ofsted report for one pre-school it pulled them up for not working with other settings. Here I am handing it to them on a plate and they still won't talk to me :panic: It also annoys me to know that all these pre-schools have to do is put my letters on file & they have proof of working with another setting, whereas I have nothing.

So now I don't really try. I still send my termly summary, but that's it.

[loocyloo]

i write in childs LJ everytime i talk to/leave a message/send a letter to preschool/nursery! IF i get a response, then i put that in, if not, well, it shows i am trying!

[Simona]

This in my view on this matter for what it is worth.

My strong feelings is that we need to persevere and make info sharing with nurseries and pre-schools a reality by starting to engage with them and 'be heard'.
Some are excellent some still need to recognise that what we do is equal to them...we have to comply to the same registration and legislation framework.
CMs have achieved that equality since EYFS 2008 and now there is a need to build bridges, mutual respect and recognition of what we do.

I know it can be off putting when we perceive they are ignoring us and our effort but lets not give up as, now more than ever in the past, this professional relationship is important for CPD and sustainability....we have a lot to learn from each other and more than ever 'inclusion' is vital.

My personal interpretation of the current EY reforms tells me we need to co-operate

I used to belong to PLA when I run my preschool from 1993 to 2001, I had no problem then sharing with CMs
when I became a CM myself in 2001 I joined pacey some preschools were very open to sharing others were not
now I am back with PLA and I am determined to do something about this problem...some are very respectful some maybe less so but we need to find a solution.

As a CM I consider my professional engagement with the rest of the sector vital, we need to be able to have opportunities for joint training and discussions

I have a meeting coming up very shortly with PLA...in fact 2 this very weekend and I will be putting this on the agenda.

Let's put forward suggestions on how to improve our relationship and take this forward in a positive way

[Jods]

^^^^ totally up for this, and am happy to share, an I have to even giving the respective key workers my mobile if they wanted to contact me through text, I have full permission to share information by my parents, they are totally up for it as can see the advantages, but today I had this -

" if you want to see their LJ here then you will need permission each time from the mums, then make an appointment" - my response was "I dont need to see their LJ, as I have been doing one for 2 years, so surely you need to see mine so you can do a baseline assessment from it and then continue from there?" - the answer to that was " no we just need to know what you have planned and we are telling you what we are doing!" - I said "fair enough, but what if you observe something I have planned for, how will I know, unless you tell me!" - "we dont care or need to see what you have done for 2 years, its nothing to us, all we need to do to keep Ofsted happy is to tell you what we are doing" x

I have recorded this discussion down and I will be putting it in my SEF, and I said I used to work there so I know my onions x

Am calmer now, so will do what I can, possibly just to irritate them ;)

[loocyloo]

^^^^ totally up for this, and am happy to share, an I have to even giving the respective key workers my mobile if they wanted to contact me through text, I have full permission to share information by my parents, they are totally up for it as can see the advantages, but today I had this -

" if you want to see their LJ here then you will need permission each time from the mums, then make an appointment" - my response was "I dont need to see their LJ, as I have been doing one for 2 years, so surely you need to see mine so you can do a baseline assessment from it and then continue from there?" - the answer to that was " no we just need to know what you have planned and we are telling you what we are doing!" - I said "fair enough, but what if you observe something I have planned for, how will I know, unless you tell me!" - "we dont care or need to see what you have done for 2 years, its nothing to us, all we need to do to keep Ofsted happy is to tell you what we are doing" x

I have recorded this discussion down and I will be putting it in my SEF, and I said I used to work there so I know my onions x

Am calmer now, so will do what I can, possibly just to irritate them ;)

so :angry::angry::angry::angry: on your behalf!

[Jods]

so :angry::angry::angry::angry: on your behalf!

thanks for that hun - will use some wine to help later also x

[Simona]

^^^^ totally up for this, and am happy to share, an I have to even giving the respective key workers my mobile if they wanted to contact me through text, I have full permission to share information by my parents, they are totally up for it as can see the advantages, but today I had this -

" if you want to see their LJ here then you will need permission each time from the mums, then make an appointment" - my response was "I dont need to see their LJ, as I have been doing one for 2 years, so surely you need to see mine so you can do a baseline assessment from it and then continue from there?" - the answer to that was " no we just need to know what you have planned and we are telling you what we are doing!" - I said "fair enough, but what if you observe something I have planned for, how will I know, unless you tell me!" - "we dont care or need to see what you have done for 2 years, its nothing to us, all we need to do to keep Ofsted happy is to tell you what we are doing" x

I have recorded this discussion down and I will be putting it in my SEF, and I said I used to work there so I know my onions x

Am calmer now, so will do what I can, possibly just to irritate them ;)

I was given exactly the same reason regarding LJ...so I wrote a permission form and got the parents to sign...gave the preschool a copy and put one in my file
I was also told about making an appointment to see a LJ, they appeared reluctant to let them go out of the premises, which I understood.

I explained that making an appointment would be difficult when I had other children to care for
I provided my child's portfolio for them...pages and pages... to look at and eventually was given theirs ...4 pages in all...not ideal but slowly the communication improved and evidence of info sharing is in my file for Ofsted, that was my aim.

[hectors house]

I phoned a nursery to make appointment to visit to discuss child's development and they said the Mother currently had the LJ at home, I said I would ask her to drop it round the next day when she brought child, when she picked child up from Nursery (on day I spoke to them) they forebade her from showing me the LJ - said I could only look at it in the Nursery with a member of staff present! I went for a visit and told them the same thing about my LJ as it contained group photos. How come it's ok for the parents to see the LJ unaccompanied but not me? Visit was a waste of time, the keyworker pinched some of my observations to tick things off in her development matters as she didn't know he could write his name without help and do simple calculations when sharing out fruit for snack.

I do need to communicate with Nurseries as this was a recommendation on my last Ofsted - but my argument is that they aren't prepared to do their planning around me so why should I do my planning around them - also if I plan to do numbers 1-10 with a child and he has already done it at Nursery and can recognise them when I observe him, I will just move onto numbers 10-20 etc. Just like at school when you learnt fractions, one year you would learn addition, the next year they would remind you about addition and introduce subtraction, the next year repeat and move onto multiplication. - It's all scaffolding and reinforcement.

[JCrakers]

^^^^ totally up for this, and am happy to share, an I have to even giving the respective key workers my mobile if they wanted to contact me through text, I have full permission to share information by my parents, they are totally up for it as can see the advantages, but today I had this -

" if you want to see their LJ here then you will need permission each time from the mums, then make an appointment" - my response was "I dont need to see their LJ, as I have been doing one for 2 years, so surely you need to see mine so you can do a baseline assessment from it and then continue from there?" - the answer to that was " no we just need to know what you have planned and we are telling you what we are doing!" - I said "fair enough, but what if you observe something I have planned for, how will I know, unless you tell me!" - "we dont care or need to see what you have done for 2 years, its nothing to us, all we need to do to keep Ofsted happy is to tell you what we are doing" x

I have recorded this discussion down and I will be putting it in my SEF, and I said I used to work there so I know my onions x

Am calmer now, so will do what I can, possibly just to irritate them ;)

That's a shocking response, they have openly said that they do not care :eek:

I would keep the conversation in my 'working with settings' folder (I don't have one but would make one :thumbsup:) and when my inspector comes visiting I would show how I work with settings, that would surely irritate them :D

[Simona]

We appear to have many 'negative' experiences of working with other settings..are there any 'positive' ones?
If we want to solve this problem we need to come up with ideas and solutions...what would work and how can we aim for that?

[blue bear]

I have found the best way to handle it is to go with a shopping List of expectations and tell them what they are going to do in a no nonsense way.
E.g.
I will give you my lj to look through before lo starts
I will provide you copies of my observations of mega wow moment and you will give me copies of yours.
You need to send an extra copy of newsletters and planning for me to put in lo lj at my house and I will send in any copies from mine
We will swap lj's once a term
If you have a next step planned on an observation you have given me a copy for I am happy to write up if I cover the next step at my house you will do the same
You need to do this for the benefit of the child and also for ofsted, if we work together it will help us both

I've been amazed its worked at all three pre schools so far.

[shortstuff]

A preschool I worked alongside last school year was awful. I was lucky if the staff would even grunt to recognise my presence when delivering or collecting a child. I always used to let them know if there had been any issues before arrival etc. I was lucky if any member of staff would look in my direction let alone eye contact. I shared the daily diary, obs and everything too until they became so rude.

This was because they had asked for outside support for a lo we shared. Apparently lo needed inclusion therapy while there. The parent was at the first meeting where the therapist was told lo was fine and chatty while with me. The issue must be the attachment there.

Ofsted were there one day and asked for opinions. I gave mine and their attitude got even worse. Somehow they got outstanding too. They were even praised in the report for communicating with other settings so goodness knows what they had been putting in their files as I was the only cm attending!

[SYLVIA]

Much the same negative response for me too. I was told I could look at the theme board outside by one pre-school and the other one, well, doesn't have a notice board! They don't have a theme and the newsletter tells me all about the staff and naff all about what the children are doing. Luckily a parent that I used to childmind for is now working there and she and I are actually sorting out themes and activities together!!

[Simona]

Much the same negative response for me too. I was told I could look at the theme board outside by one pre-school and the other one, well, doesn't have a notice board! They don't have a theme and the newsletter tells me all about the staff and naff all about what the children are doing. Luckily a parent that I used to childmind for is now working there and she and I are actually sorting out themes and activities together!!

Again my view here...I feel it would be difficult to try and look at their planning or activities to link to ours...we do things differently...they are in 4 walls we are out and about in the community the whole time

I feel this should be approached more from the 'sharing general info' about the child's progress than looking at their planning board
Maybe ask how the child is progressing with them, do they have any concerns or indeed have they found anything exceeding in the child's progress?

It is more establishing a 'two way conversation' ...my view again but somehow we should try to build these professional relationships
I am sure if a preschool came to look at my planning they would not understand it because it is my way of doing things

Sorry if not making much sense.. but I would like to hear some positivity on how to improve what we feel is so negative at present.

[dawn100]

I phoned a nursery to make appointment to visit to discuss child's development and they said the Mother currently had the LJ at home, I said I would ask her to drop it round the next day when she brought child, when she picked child up from Nursery (on day I spoke to them) they forebade her from showing me the LJ - said I could only look at it in the Nursery with a member of staff present! I went for a visit and told them the same thing about my LJ as it contained group photos. How come it's ok for the parents to see the LJ unaccompanied but not me? Visit was a waste of time, the keyworker pinched some of my observations to tick things off in her development matters as she didn't know he could write his name without help and do simple calculations when sharing out fruit for snack.

I do need to communicate with Nurseries as this was a recommendation on my last Ofsted - but my argument is that they aren't prepared to do their planning around me so why should I do my planning around them - also if I plan to do numbers 1-10 with a child and he has already done it at Nursery and can recognise them when I observe him, I will just move onto numbers 10-20 etc. Just like at school when you learnt fractions, one year you would learn addition, the next year they would remind you about addition and introduce subtraction, the next year repeat and move onto multiplication. - It's all scaffolding and reinforcement.
That doesn't make sense about the group photo, do they plan to remove it before the child leaves if not once the child has left the lj becomes the parents property and can show as many people as they like.
I have yet to have a child at pre-school but what I plan to do (this is what my mentor recommended when I first started)
I think lj which could contain information from the child from a baby could contain alot of unnecessary info eg when they first crawled, walked, said first word etc so I complete about 4 times a year a summerative assesment and would give copies of these to preschool and get preschool to sign my copy to say they have received it, photo copy newsletters of theirs so if their theme for the month is numbers I can include this in my work but it doesn't become my topic if that makes sense.
I do think pre-schools and nurseries do need to see us as equals and value us more and not be so obtrusive to us looking at lj's but when most don't really do individual planning how can you expect them to include our next steps into their work.
My own lj are far more detailed and personal than any I've ever seen from a group setting.

[sing-low]

I have had a really positive experience with my DD's pre-school. Probably slightly different as I am Mum, not just cm but I often have my LOs with me at drop off and they know I work in Early Years. I have been treated as an equal, asked my opinion about EYFS related decisions and have an excellent relationship with my DD's key worker who is also the manager. The cream on top was when I was asked specifically if I was free to help one morning, when two of the staff are at a conference. I'd been so helpful last time I volunteered, that the other staff wanted _me_ to go in.:blush:

I wonder if part of working with other settings needs to be asking parents to insist that they work with us. I suspect that would get a better response. But I agree with Simona, whether working in partnership is good or rubbish, as cms we need to keep going and trying. Not just for OFSTED but for the benefit of the children we care for.

[Simona]

I have made my first move last week and connected to a preschool very close to me...then this week we met
We have exchanged several ideas on how to build up a professional relationship.

Our LA has limited the support for cms in a big way...so this an opportunity not to be missed to find support somewhere else
Linking to preschools has ramifications for cms, not just at present, but also in the future because of the More Great Affordable Childcare
It would be great if anyone tried and feedback on how they get on.