A llittle bit stuck and need some advice re contracts and ratios...

[EmmaReed84]

I just recently signed up a parent for her two daughters to start in September. Youngest from 8-5 and eldest collect from pre-school at 2.30-5. However, the eldest is having some problems (lost Grandparent, moved house, new pre-school etc) and starting with me is too much right now.

I have had a chat with Mum and I will still have the youngest, but cancel the contract for the eldest. Mum understands I can't keep the space open for if/when she wants to come back and knows I have had requests for care on that day (which so far I have had to turn away as I already care for another 3 year old so would have been over my ratio)

My question is... If I fully terminate the contract for the eldest, and end up taking on another child for that day, (meaning I would have 3 under 5) if Mum decides to bring the eldest back (which would only be for 2.5 hours anyway), would I be able to give myself a variation as it would be continuity of care - already caring for the sibling?

[charlottenash]

I think it would, as long as you risk assess and can handle it.

[EmmaReed84]

Thank you. I always worry about this sort of thing.

I feel so awful as I want to keep the space open for Mum, but what with losing one full time child already I really cannot afford to lose another potential contract.

[FussyElmo]

Emma I dont know if you would. It does state baby sibling in the eyfs. Hope someone comes along with a more definite answer :-D

[EmmaReed84]

Emma I dont know if you would. It does state baby sibling in the eyfs. Hope someone comes along with a more definite answer :-D

:panic: I hope that isn't the case... Not for money wise as it is only 2.5 hours a week, but more for Mum as she is so worried about it. There is no guarantee I will even get older sibling back, so can't exactly charge 50% for something that might never be.

Anyone?

Sarah?

[Mouse]

This is the wording from the EYFS framework:

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and
inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then
exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for
sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five
only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day,
and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as
three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of
children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six

I guess it's how you interpret it. Are exceptions only for baby siblings of children you already have? Does it apply to older siblings?

[AgentTink]

I am unsure to why the mum thinks their little one wont cope in a few weeks, surely if you and her come up with a plan of over 6 weeks you pick the elder one up and work it out so that the time increases each week, then eventually she will settle and get used to the rountine .Who is looking after the older girl after pre-school in the meantime? Could they work with you to have a stagger process over the next few weeks.

The other option to say to mum if she has cover for the older sibling then is this going to last all year until she goes to school, if so then there is no need to worry about having the space available in the future. If not and she will need you then she will have to pay you a retainer if you need the money, as it is only for 2.5 hours a week then it is only going to be about £4 a week, which is reasonable if the mum is going to want to use you eventually.

[EmmaReed84]

I am unsure to why the mum thinks their little one wont cope in a few weeks, surely if you and her come up with a plan of over 6 weeks you pick the elder one up and work it out so that the time increases each week, then eventually she will settle and get used to the rountine .Who is looking after the older girl after pre-school in the meantime? Could they work with you to have a stagger process over the next few weeks. Mum is self employed and can be flexible so she will be collecting her daughter from pre-school. Without going in to too much detail her daughter has been referred through the GP and will have a appointments on the Wednesday as well, could be for 6 weeks, could be 12 weeks, or longer.

The other option to say to mum if she has cover for the older sibling then is this going to last all year until she goes to school, if so then there is no need to worry about having the space available in the future. If not and she will need you then she will have to pay you a retainer if you need the money, as it is only for 2.5 hours a week then it is only going to be about £4 a week, which is reasonable if the mum is going to want to use you eventually.

I know what you are saying but Mum is really stressed at the moment and her daughter is not doing too well either, I just want to take at least one pressure off Mum so she one less thing to worry about.

[EmmaReed84]

This is the wording from the EYFS framework:

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and
inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then
exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for
sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five
only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day,
and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as
three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of
children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six

I guess it's how you interpret it. Are exceptions only for baby siblings of children you already have? Does it apply to older siblings?

Just called Ofsted and they said the would be for any sibling, older or younger than the existing one.

[FussyElmo]

Just called Ofsted and they said the would be for any sibling, older or younger than the existing one.

Ask them to send it you in writing :)

Then you are covered during an inspection :)

[EmmaReed84]

Ask them to send it you in writing :)

Then you are covered during an inspection :)

Oh, good idea, I will call them back!!!

Probably get a different answer though... LOL

[Chellewilks]

Just been reading your posts and its kind of skimming on a question I have. Hope you don't mind me asking mine.

I have a daughter at school and hoping to have another baby so be mine under one. I have a girl that be with me for 6 of the 13 school holidays as mum has 7 weeks hols and depending on when i have her for these 6 weeks in holiday my husband will be off on leave so can be my assistant ;)! She's on a casual contract and will be 8 next year so do I include her in my numbers up until she's 8 the weeks I have her? And also when I have more children in my setting I can still have another 3? and also use my daughter as the sixth in the holidays. Hope this makes sense so hard to write it down when it's rattling around up there lol :panic: thank you x

[EmmaReed84]

Just been reading your posts and its kind of skimming on a question I have. Hope you don't mind me asking mine.

I have a daughter at school and hoping to have another baby so be mine under one. I have a girl that be with me for 6 of the 13 school holidays as mum has 7 weeks hols and depending on when i have her for these 6 weeks in holiday my husband will be off on leave so can be my assistant ;)! She's on a casual contract and will be 8 next year so do I include her in my numbers up until she's 8 the weeks I have her? And also when I have more children in my setting I can still have another 3? and also use my daughter as the sixth in the holidays. Hope this makes sense so hard to write it down when it's rattling around up there lol :panic: thank you x

Children are classed as under 8 until they actually are 8, it is not like rising 5. My son wont be 8 until December and until then he is still in my numbers, but my other son wont be 5 until November, however classed as rising 5, so does NOT count as my under 5 numbers... So confusing sometimes LOL!

Also you cannot, under any circumstances have more than 6 children under 8 at any one time, unless you have a registered assistant who is working with you at the time.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I would write it down - put down what you are currently contracted for throughout the year and then see where your gaps are. I was a bit confused and didn't understand what you are asking.

Even if your husband is your assistant you need to count your own children into the ratio's.

[k1rstie]

It's funny the rising fives versus the being eight!

A four year old is classed as a five year old if their birthday is in August, most a year until they are 5'

Whereas the same August child is not classed as 8 until they are actually 8!

It does seem a bit weird in my opinion, but them the rules!!!