View Full Version : DfE interested in engaging with nurseries on costs...

20-06-2013, 01:32 PM
...but not with cms? why?
Agencies got anything to do with it???

DfE keen to hear from nurseries on business costs | Nursery World (http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/article/1187142/dfe-keen-hear-nurseries-business-costs?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

20-06-2013, 05:24 PM
we are clearly less important - or maybe we do not have anyone to shout loudly enough for us!! :(

20-06-2013, 06:33 PM
Well it will be interesting to see what their costs are and how they feel they loose as much as £700 per child using a funded place for 38 weeks a year. Maybe it will also highlight why Nurseries are often so much more expensive than childminders and they may see that childminders are much better palced to offer affordable and flexible childcare.

20-06-2013, 07:44 PM
I am working on that one Sarah.....someone to speak for us independent cms...if it' s the last thing I do as a cm!

The NDNA are holding their annual conference today and tomorrow...today Truss addressed them but left without answering any questions...the tweets were really good and informative and it was reported she was not 'at ease'?
Tomorrow they have Sue Gregory...will follow tweets and report

Following today it was announced the DfE wants to engage with nurseries and discuss their costs...oh dear they have suddenly woken up to the fact that costs are a problem to sustainability after the NDNA published this report (it is in another post but you can see the link here)


My first thought is that we need such a report for cms too as the Free Entitlement and costs affect our sustainability as well...and how our support from LAs has changed recently and a report on cms would paint a very different picture as support is very variable in each LA.

although agencies are supposed to address sustainability any research should address the vast majority of cms who wish to remain independent...we cannot be overlooked because of agencies

20-06-2013, 07:58 PM
They certainly dont loose that much in this area! The highest rate in this town is £4 hr for both minders & nurseries, which is also what most charge so there seems to be an even keel across the board. The 3-4yr old funding is £3.90 or £3.95 (cant remember) and the 2yr old funding £4.90!!

20-06-2013, 09:04 PM
In my area the average hourly rate is £5-6 Nurseries charge £60 for the day but it is about £53 id you are full time. The 3yr funding is over £5 per hour and the 2 yr higher than that.

21-06-2013, 09:31 PM
I have queried through various channels why Truss is not interested in finding out cms costs and losses as a result of the Free Entitlement low funding
Pacey have tweeted Truss and I feel we need to make the case that cms too are losers and the funding does not cover our costs

Truss addressed the NDNA conference this week and showed concerns they are not getting appropriate funding and wants to find out about heir costs/losses....cms outnumber nurseries and preschools and, as we know, we are vital in the success of the 2 year old funding...so let's speak up and not be left behind

this is a useful read

Schools Improvement Net - Nurseries ‘lose £700 a year on free places’ (http://schoolsimprovement.net/nurseries-lose-700-a-year-on-free-places/)

23-06-2013, 08:46 AM
Whilst Truss investigates the nurseries costs and cash flow, she should be looking at how these also affect childminders. I pull down both 2 and 3 year old grants. I have to say its a nightmare.
Who else has to put up with being paid 3 months in arrears for 2 year old grants if not longer? No definitive dates are given even then of payments. If they are more than 6 weeks after count day, which itself is 6 weeks after the beginning of term, we get no apology or heads up that that is going to happen!
There is absolutely no way i am doing this again, cos every time i work in this way it takes me 6 months to recover financially.
Attitudes towards childminders in my area are rubbish in this respect.
As for 3 year old grants the hourly rate is less than the vast majority of minders never mind accredited ones. So guess what mrs truss? My fees are going up- not what was intended is it? Then a new job is in order.

23-06-2013, 09:36 AM
I am doing something about this ...and will tell you in time when the meetings I am attending are closer.

It would be appropriate for our costs/losses to be analysed as well.
Truss seems to live in hope that cms will convert to agencies eventually...NO WAY...all her speeches recently have that flavour
She hopes agencies will work...no because agencies are being set up to satisfy Wilshaw who is in favour of them so he can get us off his books and save a lot of money
Truss believes our costs will come down because the agencies will take over and save us money...how?

We need to push for a study on our losses for independent cms which are just the same as nurseries and preschools...the Free Entitlement is paid equally to cms as it is to nurseries

Remember that to be independent we need the 'barriers' to operate a successful business removed and late payments by LAs is top of the list!

Apart from the problems caused by LAs paying as and when they wish (not all are late but in my view not one should pay us in arrears and get away with it)

you can help by saying what, in your view are the costs that worry you, which ones cannot be avoided such as Ofsted registration fee, ICO, PLI etc, which are optional and which you may avoid if finances are tight

23-06-2013, 03:41 PM
The costs i am concerned about are usually the casual payments from councils for work done for them and the distribution of grant money. Councils take a very laissez faire attitude towards payments. The solution dont do work for councils which is a shame because there us a pool of knowledge and skills which will go unused which throws us back into the realms of glorified babysitter. All i ask for is expenses paid for jobs done inder the terms of accepted childminder practice and which is preached in local council training i.e. payment in advance like our regular clients are expected to do. Why do councils think they should be any different?
Normal business running costs are ok although additional outlay for future training will be an issue. Then again that will have to be passed on the clients.
Agency costs on the other hand are unacceptable since we are already self-employed so why on earth should we pay someone to do a job we are doing already?
Summing up, Truss doesn't know what she is talking about but is being enabled to dismantle childcare systems by ignorant and short sighted politicians.

23-06-2013, 03:46 PM
The average hourly rate in my area is about £3.90.
The 2 year grant is£4.85 and the 3 year one is £3.55!