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Smiley
07-03-2013, 09:15 AM
Today between 11.30 and 12.15 Ofsted, ncma and daycare Trust. I will be on a nursery run!!
Parliament Live TV » what's on (http://m.parliamentlive.tv/MeetingStatus)

Maza
07-03-2013, 09:19 AM
Interesting! Wonder if DD will let me watch.

AgentTink
07-03-2013, 10:43 AM
Thanks for this i know what i will be watching on the ipad whilst serving lunch today :)

lozzy23
07-03-2013, 10:47 AM
Thanks for this i know what i will be watching on the ipad whilst serving lunch today :)

Me too, although need to go out on playgroup run at 12.10, will miss the finale.

shortstuff
07-03-2013, 10:48 AM
thanks, ive put it on now in the vague hope i will hear some.

teacake2
07-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Its talking about violence against women at the moment
Teacake1

lisbet
07-03-2013, 12:20 PM
Thanks for posting that link :thumbsup:

I thought the NCMA chief-exec did very well not to lose her temper with the Osfted EY director as she kept claiming that childminders were inferior to group care :angry:

ETA: And that guy who asked why the NCMA thought a 3hr inspection every 3 years was so good?! :mad: A. If you consider that schools and nurseries get a 2 day inspection every 3 years to cover a much bigger number of people/ paperwork etc, then childminders inspections are more robust! and B. All we know about agencies is that they will remove individual inspections, we have no guarantee that they will monitor more closely than the current Ofsted system - especially since they are going to need to be self funding, so quality may well slide!:panic:

AgentTink
07-03-2013, 12:20 PM
Its talking about violence against women at the moment
Teacake1

Teacake I think you are on the wrong channel :) it is on a live stream on the internet, its in a room called The Boothroyd Room.. try this link on your computer

Player (http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=12764&wfs=true)

It has finished currently,but you can rewatch it

shortstuff
07-03-2013, 12:22 PM
Thanks AgentTink,

I'm obviously watching the wrong one too.:o

AgentTink
07-03-2013, 12:28 PM
Thanks for posting that link :thumbsup:

I thought the NCMA chief-exec did very well not to lose her temper with the Osfted EY director as she kept claiming that childminders were inferior to group care :angry:

I know, Sue Gregory just kept stating that too many children were entering school, "not school ready", and laying the blame at childminders door for this. Ofsted just keep using the stats that show less childminders have good or outstanding when compared to nurseries/pre-schools. :angry: they always fail to mention that 3x more children on in satisfactory pre-schools/nurseries when compared to childminders

Ofsted also fail to realise that not that many childminders offer FEEF so actually the majority of 3/4 years old get their FEEF in nurseries/pre-schools so surely a lot of the blame of children not being school ready is not our fault.

I could on but too angry right now. Im sure the transcript will be ready later on today

Kiddleywinks
07-03-2013, 12:33 PM
Thanks for posting that link :thumbsup:

I thought the NCMA chief-exec did very well not to lose her temper with the Osfted EY director as she kept claiming that childminders were inferior to group care :angry:

Liz was shaking her head so much I thought it was gonna fall off!
So, Ofsted are pushing for this as the inspectorate, because of course they're doing such a fine job at the moment aren't they?!
Grrrr!

At least the committee kept mentioning the lack of detail, and cost implications which are still as yet unknown.

Fuming.com
But big thanks to childcare trust and ncma for fighting our corner

Kiddleywinks
07-03-2013, 01:02 PM
I made notes (badly I might add as I was getting incensed at Sue Gregory) but, until the transcript becomes available:

The agency model is not ofsted's remit
The marketplace is to be allowed to develop the model
Agencies will be held to account
Same regulations as now
Government is trying to square the circle
Too many children despite funding are still not ready for school (CM's are being blamed for this!)

Liz Bayram (NCMA)
On Tuesday Liz Truss implied half of cm's had been driven out
NCMA do not agree with that statistic, there has been a drop, but not as much as half.
Gave different explanations for that drop
ICM campaign showed not pleased with agencies
also showed that individual inspections were wanted by parents AND cm's

Sue Gregory said that compared to nursery and pre schools cm quality is lower, reasons given was lack of support and training
NCMA agreed that there are challenges, but this is across ALL settings not just cm's (Government cuts!)
That there were lots of other interventions to be considered rather than agencies

Peter Grigg Family and Parenting Institute (Daycare trust?)
Not convinced agencies will drive down costs
Someone has to pay - charge parents a fee? Charge cm's? Neither of which will reduce costs
Wants to see more details on agencies as it currently isn't there and that's a concern

Committee confirm detail is not there and this a concern for them too (YAAAAAY! Someone's noticed!!)

Osted want agencies and are supporting this bill

it was pointed out that what's missing is the ability to see how agencies will benefit, that the LA deliver much of what's proposed by agencies, the structure's are already in place - the funding isn't

Some evidence that interaction is more available at cm settings
Not convinced the agencies model will increase cm’s due to as yet unknown costs

Ofsted say preschools and nurseries are better for under two’s!!
But there is no inspection regime that can confirm that (stooped woman)

Q. Agencies are voluntary, what do high quality providers have to fear
NCMA: There are concerns about unintended circumstances
Training – must join agencies to receive training
Two tier system
Fears over business sustainability

Q. What are your recommendations?

Liz - No agencies at this point
There are other quality improvement in the pipeline

Peter agrees with liz – do not remove current system whilst pilots go ahead

Sue – cm agencies – given that they’re not compulsory absolutely support the trial
Huge potential to support cms


At this point I couldn't follow what was being said as I was getting annoyed sorry

SYLVIA
07-03-2013, 01:11 PM
I didn't hear it but I'm getting annoyed just reading this thread!

Tunja
07-03-2013, 02:23 PM
I didn't hear it but I'm getting annoyed just reading this thread!

Lords can make amendments to this bill at 2nd reading, committee stage and 3rd reading and ping pong this back and forwards afterwards with the house of commons until they agree.

So who do we know in the house of lords we can lean on. :rolleyes: Oops I mean provide appropriate information to.:D

Tunja

Kiddleywinks
07-03-2013, 02:33 PM
Just a thought, but has there been any kind of comparison done regarding % allocation of under 5's to the various sectors

Nursery's and pre schools are allowed more children per setting than childminders so if that was converted into 'who has the largest quota of children under 5' then surely THAT would determine if CM's are to blame for the lack of school readiness, or if the liability lies more with children attending larger settings - which I personally believe is probably more the case. I have a pre schooler that's learnt more in the 2 months he's been here than he has at pre school (so mum says)

AgentTink
07-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Just a thought, but has there been any kind of comparison done regarding % allocation of under 5's to the various sectors

Nursery's and pre schools are allowed more children per setting than childminders so if that was converted into 'who has the largest quota of children under 5' then surely THAT would determine if CM's are to blame for the lack of school readiness, or if the liability lies more with children attending larger settings - which I personally believe is probably more the case. I have a pre schooler that's learnt more in the 2 months he's been here than he has at pre school (so mum says)

The figures are something like 1.2 million children attend a nursery and 250,000 children attend a childminders. (these are rough guess i will find exact figures for you in a minute)

The point that you have made is the point that i have sent to MP's in my letter....
"Why is the government not letting this fact be known? All that is ever in the press from the Government is how on Ofsted’s grades we are roughly about 10% lower than nurseries.

This may be true on simple facts such as 61% of Childminders obtained a good or outstanding whereas 71% of nurseries obtained the same. But if this broken down another way 39% of satisfactory Childminders deal with approximately 60,000 children, whereas a head count at satisfactory nurseries is almost triple the amount at 170,000 children."

AgentTink
07-03-2013, 02:54 PM
Exact figures as follows from the Ofsted Report 2011/2012

Childminders 56,085 - No of places for children - 283,321
Nursery/Pre-School etc 25,695 - No of places for children - 1,028,145

Report can be found here
Ofsted | The Annual Report of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Education, Children's Services and Skills 2011/12 (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/annualreport1112)

gingerjames1
07-03-2013, 03:08 PM
Just watched some of this back. And cannot believe what the woman from ofsted is saying, that children are not meeting the standard before entering school, and putting the blame on childminders? Hello every child i have is at the top end of the scale after arriving at the bottom. I am in a disadvantaged part of london and i can tell you now the reason why all these children are falling is due to POOR PARENTING. And this is where the government should be wasting there money on, not stupid agencies. And if id have been liz from the NCMA i would of nutted her!!!! Talk about get you in a mood before the school run!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Childminding Forum

zippy
07-03-2013, 04:43 PM
Just watched some of this back. And cannot believe what the woman from ofsted is saying, that children are not meeting the standard before entering school, and putting the blame on childminders? Hello every child i have is at the top end of the scale after arriving at the bottom. I am in a disadvantaged part of london and i can tell you now the reason why all these children are falling is due to POOR PARENTING. And this is where the government should be wasting there money on, not stupid agencies. And if id have been liz from the NCMA i would of nutted her!!!! Talk about get you in a mood before the school run!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Childminding Forum

I'd like to know if she's assuming every child who hasn't been to nursery is a childminder child, or is it that they've had no childcare at all, sounds weird to me.

tori4
07-03-2013, 07:11 PM
Hi is it poss to watch this back now? And if poss via tablet or iPhone as computer gone to computer hospital to be fixed again!!

Would really like to see what was said.

sarah707
07-03-2013, 08:00 PM
I am very cross with Ofsted and not sure I can comment coherently yet.

How dare they when it was their document which said - childminders can't get better than satisfactory at their first inspection...

And it's their inspectors that have said 'I don't give childminders outstanding'.

I feel they have been setting us up for a fall for a long time :(

SYLVIA
07-03-2013, 08:00 PM
How do they know that children from childminders are less school ready. Do they assess them then check to see if they have been with a childminder? Unless they can show how they get this information I think it very unfair to make that statement!

Kiddleywinks
07-03-2013, 08:14 PM
How do they know that children from childminders are less school ready.

I think that's what the committee lady was trying to get at when ofsted sue confirmed that she eventually admitted they didn't actually have specific info to back up that statement.

wendywu
07-03-2013, 08:35 PM
If children are not school ready its nothing to do with childminders its because at 2 3 4 it is not in their gentic makeup to be school ready. Any goverment that states young children are better off in nurseries than a family home environment is signing the death warrant of our future society. :angry:

SammySplodger
07-03-2013, 09:00 PM
Have had nose against grindstone all day with unhappy screamy child and missed all of this...

Depressing reading - Gregory & Wilshaw have stitched us up... I suspected something like this would happen last Autumn.

Right now I have absolutely no respect for Ofsted... clearly they have no respect for CMs either. :-((

Where will it all end?

k1rstie
07-03-2013, 09:17 PM
Floella Benjamin is a lib dem peer. She was all for getting children to help shape the NHS ( it said when I googled her!)


Maybe we should all write to her.

Chatterbox Childcare
07-03-2013, 09:18 PM
Now I am glad that I pay my NCMA membership and proud to be a member. This support and challenge is what NCMA do for childminders.

wendywu
07-03-2013, 11:25 PM
If children are not school ready its nothing to do with childminders its because at 2 3 4 it is not in their gentic makeup to be school ready. Any goverment that states young children are better off in nurseries than a family home environment is signing the death warrant of our future society. :angry:

We send our children into school far younger than the rest of Europe. What is it with this country that they don't want children to be at home with mum/CM . It does not work, it undermines family values. You might as well give birth and then send them straight to boarding school. :angry:

littlemiss60561
08-03-2013, 12:39 AM
Hi is it poss to watch this back now? And if poss via tablet or iPhone as computer gone to computer hospital to be fixed again!!

Would really like to see what was said.

hi
yes it is, ive just watched it. the link is further up the page.
H x

lubanana
08-03-2013, 12:52 AM
I was fuming, such a generalised comment about 'childminders' in general, watched Liz shaking her head in disbelief at Ofsteds nasty comments about childminders in general! I also want to know how she (ofsted) can link the development and care for under 2 year olds - when asked specifically - about attachment - with pre-schools, surely there are not any under 2's in pre-school anyway?? Or is Dorset different??
Un-****** believable,
I am more worried now than before,

littlemiss60561
08-03-2013, 01:04 AM
Im fuming!
How dare she lay the blame at us? no proof, other than their ofsted grading stats, which as we all know , who you get on the day could make a difference (my second inspector went against what the first inspector told me to do....wonder what the 3rd one will say....) and the fact that they want this bad enough to manipulate outcomes? there are several schools around here that have been graded un satisfactory (to the up roar of parents and teachers declaring evidence not looked at properly) and next day declared acadamies. no coinsidence there is there.

incidently, my mindie who ive had since a baby has been writing her name and holding her pencil beautifully for atleast 5 months. shes ready for school now. her nursery ( 6 months in) asked mum can she hold a pencil correctly? ive not checked yet. its a lovely nursery and staff are great, but..

Liz, how you didnt slap the woman i dont know. well done to you. and as for "attachment" - Ms Sue- go look in a dictionary. Ive had training in attachment and separation anxiety. Clearly your not as professionally trained as i (we) are to make such ridiculous statements.

grrrrrrrrr and now for some restful sleep as my lil ones arrive in a 6 hours.

H x

merry
08-03-2013, 07:39 AM
I agree with wendywu, these children are too young to be starting school, and even those children who are in fulltime childcare still spend the majority of their time with their parents, who are their first and foremost educator, so why do we (and nurseries) get the blame for them not being 'school ready'. I've thought for some time now that this government and the previous one would prefer to do away with smaller pre-school/childminder settings and have all children in state ruled nurseries.

:(

wendywu
08-03-2013, 08:17 AM
I agree with wendywu, these children are too young to be starting school, and even those children who are in fulltime childcare still spend the majority of their time with their parents, who are their first and foremost educator, so why do we (and nurseries) get the blame for them not being 'school ready'. I've thought for some time now that this government and the previous one would prefer to do away with smaller pre-school/childminder settings and have all children in state ruled nurseries.

:(

I agree about wanting the state ruled nurseries. I did training on wed for the free nursery places for under privileged 2 year olds. She said they would rather place these children with CM as they realised that this was the best place for them to be.

Most of my training supports this train of thought and this fact comes through time and time again.
By saying that CM are no good they are saying in fact that mum and dad and a family are no good. Because in practice there is no difference between us.
And that my good friends is why our newspaper portray such cruel nasty and vicious storys of mankind in our country day in and day out. Bring back family values, respect and morals. Keep children out of school until 5, make it harder for young women who decide to have many children by many different men, make it harder for people who dont want to go and work. Lets go back in time because forward just does not work.

hectors house
08-03-2013, 08:44 AM
Primary and secondary schools now have nuture units for children who can't cope with a whole day in a school environment - I bet that most of the children who use the nuture units went to Nursery and were not given enough one to one time, cuddles and love - I'm sorry but a key worker can't possibly love these children like I do my mindees. I don't just welcome children and families into my home, I welcome them into our lives.

quote from feedback from a parent about e-mailed diary "Thankyou for so much information about the day it really makes a difference being able to know what you've all been uo to when coming home to an empty house after college. Thankyou so much for all you do for X, the steps you take to help with her learning go above and beyond what i ever hoped for her from a childminder. You truly are an amazingly influential and important person to our lives. Have a good week, see you Friday. Thankyou"

caz3007
08-03-2013, 09:15 AM
Primary and secondary schools now have nuture units for children who can't cope with a whole day in a school environment - I bet that most of the children who use the nuture units went to Nursery and were not given enough one to one time, cuddles and love - I'm sorry but a key worker can't possibly love these children like I do my mindees. I don't just welcome children and families into my home, I welcome them into our lives.

quote from feedback from a parent about e-mailed diary "Thankyou for so much information about the day it really makes a difference being able to know what you've all been uo to when coming home to an empty house after college. Thankyou so much for all you do for X, the steps you take to help with her learning go above and beyond what i ever hoped for her from a childminder. You truly are an amazingly influential and important person to our lives. Have a good week, see you Friday. Thankyou"

How lovely.

My full timer is very much part of our family and to us and her mum we are extended family as I know lots of others Cm's are to their long term regular mindies. Isnt that how its meant to be, we all love her to bits and we all miss her when she isnt here and I know she misses us too cos her mum tells me. She is fully nurtured like one of my own here along with all the learning that I did with all my own children and they have all turned out polite and respectful members of society.

So the government think that what I have offered all the children in my care over the years isnt good enough. I am a surrogate mum who works hard to keep the children in my care safe, secure and happy and I am best of friends with lots of ex parents and meet up regularly, so I must be doing something right

manjay
08-03-2013, 09:28 AM
This is a perfect example of our society concentrating on what children may become rather than celebrating what they are now:(. The whole 'beings and becomings' debate is massive in academic studies and imho this constant fixation on a child's future is eroding childhood! School ready???? What a load of tosh.

I wish this was my current uni assignment as I would have no problem writing 4000 words:rolleyes:

FussyElmo
08-03-2013, 12:16 PM
Big signs - that is all. poor poor future generations of children :(

AgentTink
08-03-2013, 12:47 PM
Here is the transcript from yesterdays committee meeting

House of Commons Public Bill Committee : Children and Families Bill (07 March 2013) (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmpublic/childrenandfamilies/130307/am/130307s01.htm)

Tunja
08-03-2013, 12:55 PM
They are playing again on the 12th March:rolleyes:
Tunja

Ripeberry
08-03-2013, 01:12 PM
I'd like to know if she's assuming every child who hasn't been to nursery is a childminder child, or is it that they've had no childcare at all, sounds weird to me.

Liz Truss better watch out then. She uses a Nanny. Does that make nannies as 'bad' as us? :angry:

Ripeberry
08-03-2013, 01:16 PM
This is a perfect example of our society concentrating on what children may become rather than celebrating what they are now:(. The whole 'beings and becomings' debate is massive in academic studies and imho this constant fixation on a child's future is eroding childhood! School ready???? What a load of tosh.

I wish this was my current uni assignment as I would have no problem writing 4000 words:rolleyes:

Had a good chat with a developmental worker from my LA yesterday at playgroup and even in her department it was a general feeling that 'Big Society' is being rolled out in a big way. Individuals are not welcome in the brave new world. We all must work for the good of the country in a hostile economic climate. And as always, it's the most vulnerable in society that pay the price :(




P.S I think I'm a closet anarchist! :cool: