EYFS ratios from September

[MissTinkerbell]

Don't know if you guys have had this email but I recieved this today from the DCSF:

Dear Melanie,
Thank you for your e-mail of 30 May regarding the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
I would like to explain that where four and five year olds attend school full time and only attend the childminding setting before and after the school day, they can be counted as children over the age of five for the purposes of the ratio requirements. These children may also be counted as children over the age of 5 during the school holidays.
Regards,
David Pettit
Public Communications Unit


So I'm now assuming that this is the official line and things are staying as they are?

[katickles]

I give up with this - they are forever changing there minds/answers on this one arn't they:panic:

Thanks for that though Melanie

[crazybones]

So is that official now. :huh: Are we sure? Are they sure? Do I ask for a variation for school hols? Do I stick my head in the sand. Do I print off your email and show it to anyone who queries my numbers?:panic:

[Rubybubbles]

hehe thanks for sharing!

BUT does that mean my dd 4 in aug, going to school full time will go up or not! they said she would


haha sorry just putting fuel to the fire again:laughing:

[sarah707]

So is that official now. :huh: Are we sure? Are they sure? Do I ask for a variation for school hols? Do I stick my head in the sand. Do I print off your email and show it to anyone who queries my numbers?:panic:

We can use the same patch of sand if you like! It might be fun! :laughing:

I'm sorry Mr David Pettit but until I see it on Teachernet, announced to all as an 'oops we made a booboo and we are putting it right' I'm going to be just a little bit wary of giving out information that might cause people problems if it's wrong...

However, your email does give hope for the future! Thank you for sharing! :D

[Rubybubbles]

We can use the same patch of sand if you like! It might be fun! :laughing:

I'm sorry Mr David Pettit but until I see it on Teachernet, announced to all as an 'oops we made a booboo and we are putting it right' I'm going to be just a little bit wary of giving out information that might cause people problems if it's wrong...

However, your email does give hope for the future! Thank you for sharing! :D

:laughing: :laughing: at sarah

[crazybones]

You are welcome to join the sand Sarah. I think Miffy has been hogging it for way too long and needs to budge up a bit. :laughing:

[karenjoy]

Right well all I can say that if none of us were members of here we wouldnt know one way or the other!!!, I was told at my pre reg that H will be classed has 5 from sept so I am just going with that.

I have not had confirmation from my phonecall with OFSTED this morning that this is not the case, he said he would email me and he has not.

[Pipsqueak]

[QUOTE=meggiemoo;166253]Don't know if you guys have had this email but I recieved this today from the DCSF:

Dear Melanie,
Thank you for your e-mail of 30 May regarding the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS).
I would like to explain that where four and five year olds attend school full time and only attend the childminding setting before and after the school day, they can be counted as children over the age of five for the purposes of the ratio requirements. These children may also be counted as children over the age of 5 during the school holidays.
Regards,
David Pettit
Public Communications Unit


is the key word here - before AND after. So what if you only have them before OR after - they will be classed as 4?

CAn anyone spare a bit of sand???:rolleyes:

[crazybones]

Think Miffy is still hogging all that sand. :angry:

[karenjoy]

re's my email I just recd....

Dear Mrs Chappell

Thank you for your telephone call.

In response to the enquiry you have made, I can advise of the following information regarding Rising 5s under the EYFS - Four year-olds attending ten early education sessions (childminding):-

From September 2008 there will be some changes to the way Rising 5s is applied. This article explains the new conditions as of September 2008.

Children aged four attending ten early education sessions a week may be classed as children over five years for the purposes of the adult to child ratio when caring for children before and/or after a school day. The NMS made no reference to when these children could attend the childminder and as such we allowed rising 5s at weekends and during holiday periods. However the EYFS Statutory Framework document makes specific reference to children only attending childminding before and/or after a school day as being the criteria for counting such children as over five. This means if these children attend at any other times rather than before and/or after a school day they cannot be counted as over five during these times for the purpose of the adult: child ratio.

We can still show these children on a childminders' registration certificate as over five but we will need to restrict this to the legal requirement.

We have alerted the Department for Children, Schools and Families about the issue and the impact it will have on continuity of care as the Statutory Framework is their document. We are still in discussions with lawyers and the DSCF about if there is any leeway in the law for regulating this requirement and as soon as this has been resolved we will let you know what the position is.

Rising 5s example.
A childminder registered to care for six children under eight, of which three can be under five. A four-year-old can be classed as a child aged five and over if they attend 10 early education sessions a week and the care occurs before and/or after a school day. Therefore they could still have 3 further children under 5 and 2 more over five

I hope this has been of help to you.

However should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards

Muzaffar Khan
Customer Service Advisor
Ofsted - National Business Unit
TEL: 08456 404040

[Pipsqueak]

Thanks Karen, so the way I am reading that is that if child a age 4 attends the setting only on the mornings before school but attends his 10 school sessions - child a will be considered rising 5

[karenjoy]

Yes but only in Term Time

[crazybones]

http://easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-mad-smileys-148.gif (http://easyfreesmileys.com/)

[sarah707]

Annie!!!!

I need to borrow your red faced smilie!!!!

This one doesn't do how I feel justice :crying:

[charleyfarley]

I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!:panic: :censored: :panic: :censored: :panic:

Carol xx

[Lou]

Do you know what???

As far as i am concerned until Ofsted tell me this straight i dont care.

I applied for a variation last week (which was granted woo hoo) and i gave Ofsted the dates of birth of all the children in my care including my own DD who although she is 5 according to EYFS wouldnt be classed as 5 until sept.

Well they are well aware of who i am caring for and their ages and granted the variation anyway so until they contact me to say anythings changed i DO NOT CARE!!!!

Sorry but its not worth stressing about IMHO!!!

[karenjoy]

Well Said Lou, I agree if we did not come on here we wouldnt know any way!

They need to write to each childminder and until they do then we dont know for sure do we?

[Pipsqueak]

Yes but only in Term Time

arrrrggggghhhhhhhhhh:censored:

[Donkey]

this is getting a wee bit silly!!!!!!

i say hit em with the variations girls....
any of you that have mindees that will be rising 5's apply for your variations for october half term.

surely a mass influx of variation requests will make them see sense :)

either that, or abolish rising 5's!!!

[miffy]

Think Miffy is still hogging all that sand. :angry:

I'm happy to share my sand - thought I was the only one who needed it :laughing:

miffy xx

[crazybones]

I'm happy to share my sand - thought I was the only one who needed it :laughing:

miffy xx

Oh Miffy if Sarah needs to get in the sand we are all stuffed :panic:

[miffy]

Oh Miffy if Sarah needs to get in the sand we are all stuffed :panic:

No, no I'm sure she's only teasing us.....................you are teasing aren't you Sarah?

miffy xx

[Pipsqueak]

this is getting a wee bit silly!!!!!!

i say hit em with the variations girls....
any of you that have mindees that will be rising 5's apply for your variations for october half term.

surely a mass influx of variation requests will make them see sense :)

either that, or abolish rising 5's!!!


How about abolishing 4 year olds all together????;) :D

Even better lets abolish Ofsted, red tape, government officials and anyone paid to "think" in these types of positions!

[sarah707]

No, no I'm sure she's only teasing us.....................you are teasing aren't you Sarah?

miffy xx

Now Miffy, you know it's good to share! We've talked about this before ... you only need a little for yourself ...

Annie and I will only take a little to use too ... there, that's a good girl, see how good that makes you feel xx :D

[karenjoy]

this is getting a wee bit silly!!!!!!

i say hit em with the variations girls....
any of you that have mindees that will be rising 5's apply for your variations for october half term.

surely a mass influx of variation requests will make them see sense :)

either that, or abolish rising 5's!!!

Has soon has I get my certificate I am putting a variation order in, Its mad I have 2 under 5, Eldest is 4!!! one under 5 (He is 4) allready lined up so that means I cant take anyone else on under 5!!

[buildingblocks]

I'm sorry Mr David Pettit but until I see it on Teachernet, announced to all as an 'oops we made a booboo and we are putting it right' I'm going to be just a little bit wary of giving out information that might cause people problems if it's wrong...

More chance of me getting to a size 10 in a year than them admitting they have messed up

[buildingblocks]

Right well all I can say that if none of us were members of here we wouldnt know one way or the other!!!, I was told at my pre reg that H will be classed has 5 from sept so I am just going with that.

I have not had confirmation from my phonecall with OFSTED this morning that this is not the case, he said he would email me and he has not.

one of the development workers form our CDS who I phoned about this 3 weeks ago told me at a training @I haven't forgotten to get back to you Kate but I'm sure it is nothing to worry about AARRGGGGGHHHH (sorry for shouting

[Donkey]

fingers crossed they get it sorted soon :(

another thought, surely 5-8 slots are for before and after schoolers seeing as they in theory should be in school, hence why when a four year old is in full time education thats why they are classed as 5 for numbers so that you can have another smaller one???

guess it took me a while to figure out what a rising 5 was lol

[sarah707]

Well if they don't get a move on and put something in writing soon, 5-8s won't even have standards to follow! :eek:

[Donkey]

Well if they don't get a move on and put something in writing soon, 5-8s won't even have standards to follow! :eek:

that is very true!! :eek:

[miffy]

Now Miffy, you know it's good to share! We've talked about this before ... you only need a little for yourself ...

Annie and I will only take a little to use too ... there, that's a good girl, see how good that makes you feel xx :D

You know I don't mind sharing but.....................I'm expecting you to tell me when it's safe to come out NOT have your head buried too!!!!!! :laughing:

miffy xx

[Heaven Scent]

Yes but what about the over the counter pain and temperature relief for LO's. I can't wait for parents/GP's reactions to that I bet the medical profession are blissfully unaware of the fact that they are going to have to issue prescriptions and foot the bill for all that over the counter medicine. I'm going to get all my parents to make appointmets to get paracetamol and ibuprophen on prescription ready for 1st Sept (my birthday) so that at least my local surgeries will be aware. I will give them a copy of the standard.

I think this is bl**dy dangerous we need to have these medicines and permission to administer them on hand as childrens temperatures can go through the roof at the drop of a hat and can cause all sorts of complications for them. Imagine having to wait for a parent to collect a child and make an appointment before a child can be given some sort of relief for a mild illness. We can only control temperatures without medication for so long.

And what would happen if this happened in the school holidays when we have 3 under 5 plus a rising 5 plus 2 5-8's where would we stand then we'd be likely to be over our allocated numbers with a sick child - spin off of this doesn't bare thinking about does it.

I spoke to someone from Cheshire about this and she said that a great many childminders won't administer calpol etc - I think that is very irresponsible.

Are there any other points on this that are likely to cause problems?

The whole issue of child centred care and education is not a problem to me and all this back to basics etc I'm happy with but its these two points that get to me.:angry: :mad: :panic: :huh: :crying: :confused: :eeeek: :ohdear:

[sarah707]

I have sent Super Stars a pm! :D

[crazybones]

Yikes Celine. Deep Breaths. Put your head between your legs if need be. Or just have a glass of wine. Phew.:laughing:

[Heaven Scent]

Thanks for putting me straight Sarah just wish those who work for childrens services would know better.

[manjay]

In the past parents have requested I give calpol when calling to let them know their child was ill. Have just completed my First Aid course and now feel confident enough in myself to amend my policies to show that I will not give over the counter medication. My point will be that I am not qualified to make the decision about whether a child needs medication or not. That is the parents responsibility. Even with me giving parents symptoms over the phone it is still very subjective. I have in the past agreed (with written auth already) only to have my day disrupted while I wait to see if a "poorly" child starts to feel better.

Just my POV obviously but it was very much the norm on our course that these type of mediications are not given by the minders.