And again....variation/increase from Sept 2012

[lorettacritchet]

As title suggests, from September 2012, say for example if I changed the use of my garage, making it into a playroom, this would in effect allow me more kids (well it would if I got it done before Sept which is unlikely) and has been advised in my inspection that it would, how would it work or is there a facility/procedure for childminders to be able to increase their numbers even if by one or two more children? If I have understood correctly, we won't be able to increase at all from sept 2012?

[Bluebell]

not sure what you mean by increasing your space and then increasing your numbers? Are you restricted to how many you can look after now because you have limited space? A childminder will only be allowed to look after the same number they are registered for - unless working with assistant or co-minder surely?
sorry if I'm being thick!

[lorettacritchet]

Yes at the moment, I am restricted because my little one is 3 years old so technically in the EYFS stage and my living room is not big. My total space including the bedroom which I use for kids is something like 19 square metres! When I had my ofsted inspection a year or so ago, they said that if I made the garage a playroom then my numbers could be extended. NOW my question is how do I extend my numbers which this happens? I will of course also have an assistant but not if I can't extend my numbers....seems a little lost as to the procedure of how people can increase numbers....



not sure what you mean by increasing your space and then increasing your numbers? Are you restricted to how many you can look after now because you have limited space? A childminder will only be allowed to look after the same number they are registered for - unless working with assistant or co-minder surely?
sorry if I'm being thick!

[Penny1959]

My understanding is that you still have to inform Ofsted about taking on an assistant - as unless already checked via your registration would need to have a crb check done and all assistants must be recorded by name on your Ofsted record (as they do know)

Once the assistant was recorded by Ofsted - my understanding is that you then apply the rules of the EYFS - so in the case of working with an assistant 3.41 (numbers with an assistant) and 3.56 (space requirement)

It also says (as a note on 3.41) subject to restrictions imposed by an ofsted inspector - so it may be when you phone to give details ofyour assistant that they will look at you details and then ask about space available.


Hope that helps

Penny :)

[lorettacritchet]

It's already been done. She has a crb, first aid and ofsted have registered her. All I need to know is how to apply for an increase in numbers after september when I plan to get her on board?



My understanding is that you still have to inform Ofsted about taking on an assistant - as unless already checked via your registration would need to have a crb check done and all assistants must be recorded by name on your Ofsted record (as they do know)

Once the assistant was recorded by Ofsted - my understanding is that you then apply the rules of the EYFS - so in the case of working with an assistant 3.41 (numbers with an assistant) and 3.56 (space requirement)

It also says (as a note on 3.41) subject to restrictions imposed by an ofsted inspector - so it may be when you phone to give details ofyour assistant that they will look at you details and then ask about space available.


Hope that helps

Penny :)

[Penny1959]

It's already been done. She has a crb, first aid and ofsted have registered her. All I need to know is how to apply for an increase in numbers after september when I plan to get her on board?

If doing before Sept - you phone Ofsted

If after Sept - you apply the revised EYFS 3.41 and 3.56

Penny :)

[lorettacritchet]

So in essence, are you saying that 3.41 as below:
If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder (or assistant) may care for the number of children permitted by the ratios specified above22. Children may be left in the sole care of childminders’ assistants for 2 hours at most in a single day23. Childminders must obtain parents and/or carers’ permission to leave children with an assistant, including for very short periods of time. For childminders providing overnight care, the ratios continue to apply and the childminder must always be able to hear the children (this may be via a monitor)

Means if I currently care for two under 5's and two over 5's (5-8 years) then this means my assistant will be allowed the same amount? so totalling between us both - four under 5's, four over 5's????



If doing before Sept - you phone Ofsted

If after Sept - you apply the revised EYFS 3.41 and 3.56

Penny :)

[Penny1959]

So in essence, are you saying that 3.41 as below:
If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder (or assistant) may care for the number of children permitted by the ratios specified above22. Children may be left in the sole care of childminders’ assistants for 2 hours at most in a single day23. Childminders must obtain parents and/or carers’ permission to leave children with an assistant, including for very short periods of time. For childminders providing overnight care, the ratios continue to apply and the childminder must always be able to hear the children (this may be via a monitor)

Means if I currently care for two under 5's and two over 5's (5-8 years) then this means my assistant will be allowed the same amount? so totalling between us both - four under 5's, four over 5's????

Are you counting your own children - it is difficult to advise without the full details (especially as in your case you have space restrictions).

I am sorry that I can not state the numbers allowed - you have to do this yourself - and must take into account 3.41 as you have quoted - which in turns refers to 3.40

But also space requirements of 3.56

I am personally not very happy about Ofsted /DfE decision on this and not to issue certificates (or to do variations) as it is confussing and it will lead to cms unintentionally breaking the rules through misunderstanding or by not applying all the different aspects of the revised EYFS.

Do you have a LA support worker - maybe ask them for help in understanding your personal situation

Penny :)

[lorettacritchet]

Thanks Penny.....I only have a three year old. They said I couldnt add another number onto my eyfs because she was that age however i believe rules change if i have an assistant don't they?
I have space of 19 square metres but with conversion of the garage it will be more!!!
This is so frustrating, I wish like you they didn't change the variation process, it's so confusing! I got clients here there and everywhere and I can't do anything until i know this information!!!!


Are you counting your own children - it is difficult to advise without the full details (especially as in your case you have space restrictions).

I am sorry that I can not state the numbers allowed - you have to do this yourself - and must take into account 3.41 as you have quoted - which in turns refers to 3.40

But also space requirements of 3.56

I am personally not very happy about Ofsted /DfE decision on this and not to issue certificates (or to do variations) as it is confussing and it will lead to cms unintentionally breaking the rules through misunderstanding or by not applying all the different aspects of the revised EYFS.

Do you have a LA support worker - maybe ask them for help in understanding your personal situation

Penny :)

[dawnyp]

I had my pre reg inspection last Monday and the osted lady told me that I would be one of the last ones to have a certificate. From Sep Ofsted will not issue certificates rearding numbers she said each childminder would need to call O fsted if they wanted to go above numbers and it will be looked at on a case by case basis as long as you can show how you will care for the children.Very confusing!

[rickysmiths]

Thanks Penny.....I only have a three year old. They said I couldnt add another number onto my eyfs because she was that age however i believe rules change if i have an assistant don't they?
I have space of 19 square metres but with conversion of the garage it will be more!!!
This is so frustrating, I wish like you they didn't change the variation process, it's so confusing! I got clients here there and everywhere and I can't do anything until i know this information!!!!

Why don't you apply for an increase in numbers when working with an assistant now? If she is registered and then at least you will have a base line to work from.

[lorettacritchet]

Yes I have but only for one more child in the EYFS whilst we stay as we are. I really want to get the garage done which probably won't be completed until after xmas....and then apply for another EYFS child...


Why don't you apply for an increase in numbers when working with an assistant now? If she is registered and then at least you will have a base line to work from.