made a big mistake,now really worried

[kaykaymoo]

Hi all. am shaking as im writing this. I am new to childminding and have been lucky in finding mindees.
However, I had a call from a family around 10 days ago, asking if I could take their 2yr old son as an emergency to start on Monday just gone.
I agreed to meet with the mum. When she came we had a good chat and the little boy seemed lovley, so i decided to go ahead. Unfortunatly there was no time for settling in, so I did the contracts with the parents and stupidly i have a 4 weeks notice period written in my contract.
However, the child turned out to be extreamly disruptive, and was hitting, biting, pushing,snatching, to the other children and I was extreamly worried about a 1yr old i care for. He also did not respond to me at all. There was a language barrier, so this did not help. I took him out to all sorts such as play group, where he hit another child, Park, where he kept running off and wouldn't listen when I called oh the list is endless. He was trowing round toys, and also he would not eat a single bit of food for me all day, no matter how hard I tried, I offered him every thing i could think of but just could not get him to eat. All the other children I look after love my food and meals and are very happy with it.
any way, I raised my concerns with parent mid week, to which I hoped maybe things may have improved, but no.
So I decided yesterday to write a letter to the parents ending my childcare of thier child as I was so concerned about the safety of my other mindees and also of him and I thought it best to finish before it goes on too long.
Well The dad is furious with me now and is saying he is going to sue me and put bad reviews of me with the council!! oh god, please help i am gutted, I thought i was doing the best for the other kids i care for and now it looks like i will loose everything.

[miffy]

Sorry to hear this job has turned into a nightmare for you.

I have the right to terminate a contract with immediate effect if the behaviour of a child puts the other children in my care at risk which seems to be what you feel has happened here. I also have a four week settling in period in my contracts that allow the contract to be terminated by either party without serving the usual notice period.

I suggest (if you haven't already done so) that you make a written record of everything that's happened - Childs behaviour, your talks with parents and what they've said etc. you could also ring Ofsted and advise that there may be a malicious complaint made about you.

Try not to worry too much about what dad has said - he may just be sounding off because things haven't worked out. Remember you have other parents who are happy with the care you offer so don't worry too much because this one hasn't worked out.

Miffy xx

[VeggieSausage]

I am sure you will get better advice than from me with regards to this......but here is mine. Firstly if you are using NCMA contracts then all contracts can stop with immediate effect within the first 4 weeks, you need to phone them and check where you stand with this. Speak to the NCMA about the whole situation so they can advise you about your next steps. Secondly, make detailed notes of every incident, conversation with parents, dates etc to cover yourself. Thirdly, you have given notice to a disruptive child who you felt was a danger to your lo so you have done the right thing. He cannot sue you for this and as far putting bad reviews with the council this won't happen either. The most he could do is complain to Ofsted which is why you must do proper note taking and check with the NCMA and if he is threatening complaints to Ofsted, you could call them and explain the situation in advance.

Don't worry, this is just a bad situation and won't ruin anything and keep in mind that for the safety of the other children and that child you had no option.
:group hug:

[Kiddleywinks]

Agree with everything everyone else has said, with a small addition...

You say you didn't do any 'settling in sessions', I presume by that you meant a couple of 'get to know you sessions so child gets to know you and vice versa'?
Check what you have written in your p&p's, I have 'settling in sessions' which are really 'get to know you' and then a 4 week settling in PERIOD whereby either the parent or myself can terminate the contract if things aren't working out for whatever reason.
After the first 4 week period is when when the 4 week notice kicks in.

If you haven't already got that I would certainly be putting it in after this and a positive of that is that you have reviewed your practices ;)

Are you with ncma or mm?

Seriously don't worry too much, have everything documented, and I'm sure you'll be just fine

[Pipsqueak]

Right first of all you have done nothing wrong so you can hold your head high. all you are guilty of is being a little naive.

If you are using NCMA contracts you have the right to terminate a contract if the childs (or parents) behaviour is such that it is dangerous, threatening etc.... (can't remember which clause it is - read the back the contracts).

Document EVERYthing that has happened including the parents behavours and what has been said.

Serve notice in writing...

the parent is blowing hot air

[The Juggler]

as above honey there is a clause in NCMA where you can terminate immediately with this kind of behaviour and I have done this in the past. sending a hug it's hard. :)

[Milli147]

Please don't worry about this any longer.
As others have said you can terminate anyway if the safety of others is at risk by the childs behaviour. It sounds to me as if the dad was just blowing a lot of hot air, but document everything and then if he actually does try to cause any trouble you know you can set the record straight with the facts.
Sorry this has happened to you so early on, but chalk it up to experience and make sure parents are aware of the initial settling-in period - which works in both your favours anyway, should the arrangement not be working on either side.

[Demonjill]

:)As others have said dont worry/panic - your other parents are proof you are doing a fab job

Im sure if it was this mans child on the other end getting bitten and hurt by the other children in your care it would be a different story eh?:rolleyes:

Check your contracts etc

Put things in place to cover yourself in future in case this ever happens again

Dont let this dampen you down get back to enjoying your job:thumbsup:

[mummyof3]

As all above say :thumbsup:


I would issue your notice letter and also let the parent know you have logged their 'complaint' with ofsted and your insurers ;)

[Bridey]

Anyone else wondering if this has happened to the parents before? They were looking for childcare in a hurry at the beginning weren't they?

[bunyip]

I agree with everything below.

Make sure you document everything, concentrate on what is important, and try to be specific. Don't just make a vague incident report that the child was violent, and don't include details that aren't relevent (eg. you wouldn't exclude a child for not eating a meal, so it probably doesn't belong on an incident report.)

If any other child (of your own, a mindee, or complete stranger in the park) was significantly distressed, or hurt in such a way that a mark was left, do an injury form for them. Take pictures, if appropriate, of bite rings, scratches, bruises, etc. You might end up doing a lot of repetitive forms, but do them now rather than regret it later. When something happened, it calls for an incident form. If that happening left an injury or mark, that requires an injury form.

I'd record it as a complaint, and report it to Ofsted as such. Then follow up with a call/report to Ofsted of all action taken and how you've amended policies, risk assessments, etc. to make improvements. That's not to say you've done anything wrong, but to show what you've learnt (eg. you'll probably insist on less rushed agreements, with "getting to know you" visits, as others suggested.)

Ofsted should be fine if you demonstrate you are responding seriously to what occurred. They appreciate CMs who conduct "reflective practice" and see it as a big plus point when have all your forms neat and ready. You'll only be in trouble if you try to avoid them.

I can't see what the parent can sue you about. You acted to protect other children in your care, and were perfectly reasonable to terminate the contract in order to do so. They're going to have to prove that you treated them differently to how you'd treat any other family, and some reason why you might do so. And for this reason, don't make too much of language differences: it's a shame to have to say this, but some people will take advantage of "playing the race card" (I used to experience this every day in my old job.)

Not sure what you mean by the parent will "...put bad reviews of me with the council." I know most councils publish information for people seeking CMs, but don't know of any which publish reviews. Honestly, local authority legal departments aren't daft enough to let the councils publish unverified, potentially slanderous reviews from every parent who has fallen out with a CM.

Big hugs to you too. It's easy for us all to give advice, but I know I'd find this terrifying. You will come out of this much stronger. DO get some sleep, and give yourself some love. Just remember, you may work alone but you are not alone in spirit: we're all with you and thinking of you.:thank you:

[zillervalley]

Anyone else wondering if this has happened to the parents before? They were looking for childcare in a hurry at the beginning weren't they?



Just what I was thinking when reading down the posts then came to yours.

you have had good advice from others and I agree with all. I am sure things will turn out ok for you dont worry to much, just keep thinking of the others you look after, if you hadnt done what you did i am sure one of the other families may have started to query whether they wanted their child in that enviroment
i wouldnt if i was a parent

well done to you for acting as you did.

[kaykaymoo]

Hello all,
Thank you all so very much for your kind words of support and very much needed advice., in fact I cried a bit at such lovley support from you all. It has been such an awful experience and I can't beleive it has actually happened.
Well, I have insured with mm. unfortunatly i used the contracts that were provided to me by the council. This I now realise was wrong, I thought Id be covered by them, however, ill be honest, it didn't even occur to me about needing some sort of "get out" clause. However, Massive lesson learnt here. I will never do that again, im going to look into using some sort of new contract from now on. Does any one know, can I ammend or change the contracts my other parents have? I can't imagin this happening with them, but i think i really need to make sure im covered now matter what now.
Any way, the Dad called me again yesterday, recons he has spoken to a lawyer, then went on to tell me all the losses he will incure next week by having to take the week off!! Well he then said, if I pay him back the money he paid me for last week and put into writting that I terminated contract early then that will be the end of the matter and he won't persue it any further.
Im pretty sure he has probably been told that he won't get very far, however, i really don't want to take the risk as I think he is probably the sort who will do it just to spite me if i don't "pay up" so im going to pay him back and get him to sign a copy of the letter for me to keep.
would you guys word the letter that I was " safeguarding" my other mindees?
Also, what is the procedure with OFSTED then? will I get in trouble? will they contat the family? This is a nightmare!!
I will never take a child as an "emergency" again, as a few of you posted, I do now wonder if this has happened in the past. They told me they had a "friend" looking after him before, who went off to get married and could no longer look after him? weather this was really true or not, im now not sure.
Well Ill keep you all posted on what happpens from here on in, but i hope by doing what he has asked will get him off my back and I can move on.

[Kiddleywinks]

Morning :laughing: Another early bird lol

Glad to hear you've calmed down emotionally, and as you say, lessons have been learnt so take them forward ;)

I'm not aware of any council issuing contracts to be honest, so that's stumped me lol.
As you are with MM, if I were you, I'd be getting some of their contracts (I'm with them) and telling parents that you need to use their contracts to validate (?) your insurance so are reissuing them. Or words to that effect - sorry it's way too early on a sunday for me, been wide awake since daft o'clock.

Personally, I'd be telling dad to go whistle dixie! However, have you spoken to the legal team at MM? Where have they said you stand should he make a claim?
Did you check your policies and procedures? Have you got something written in there with regard to immediate termination and the grounds to do so?

If you haven't spoken to MM, I would do so before confirming anything with dad to be honest, and yes he very well may have spoken to a lawyer but that doesn't mean he was told what he said he was does it :rolleyes:
I very much doubt he would call you and say oh I've spoken to my lawyer and they agree with you :laughing:
If you decide to do a refund, get their help to write the letter to prevent him coming back at you at a later date.


Ofsted won't be too interested as it is a contract dispute ultimately, however, they may want to check your notes are done, which will back up your experience of said child anyway.
I wouldn't have thought you need to inform them, however it may be worth calling them and giving them a heads up in case a complaint IS made.

Seriously, don't do this on your own, you pay MM for exactly this kind of support - USE IT :thumbsup:

[miffy]

I understand why you are thinking of refunding dad and tbh if I was a new childminder then I would probably think the same BUT I do agree with Chrissie that you should speak to your insurers before you reach any agreement with dad.

There are things about dads story that don't add up - the care provided by a friend who went off to get married, doesn't ring true and it would hardly leave them needing emergency care unless she eloped! You'll probably find they've used other cm's in your area - probably with the same outcome.

Dad sounds a bit of a bully so I'd tell him you will be consulting with your legal team before reaching any decision on a refund.

I don't believe Ofsted would be at all interested in a contract dispute but dad could choose to make up any allegation he wanted so it might be worthwhile contacting Ofsted to say that you are in a contract dispute with dad and believe he may make up a malicious complaint as a result of you giving notice (no need to go into details about why you gave notice). At least this way it will be on file if he does do that.

Keep your chin up, you will come through this stronger and we are all here for support.

Miffy xx

[bunyip]

I agree: check everything with your insurer's legal team. You really won't be the first person this has happened to, so they'll know what to advise.

If you are intent on paying back any money, then see what MM advise on that too. Don't do it in an apologetic way that could be taken as an admission of fault. I'm sure there'll be some way of wording it as a goodwill 'ex gratia' gesture , only with the written assurance of the parent that it will be an end to the matter.

I stick with my earlier comments about Ofsted. Go the extra mile and have everything documented. Show you've treated it as a complaint, fed back to parents and Ofsted, and tightened up your admissions to avoid a repeat. You didn't create the problem, but Ofsted will be impressed that you've reflected on it. Really, you can just call them and ask what they advise. They'll decide if it's just a contract dispute, or whether you should address the issue of admissions/settling in.

Probably best to replace your contracts, as Chrissie H says. Just explain you've been advised to by insurers and that it will help prevent another little terror from harming their lo. You can always give notice (using the proper notice period) to terminate any contract and redraw it, but I doubt if that will be necessary.

If the contracts you've been using aren't watertight, it's still not the end of the world. On the one hand, a contract may contact what a court decides is an 'unreasonable clause' which cannot be made to stick legally. On the other, a contract may be missing something, but a court may say that "something" is stil a valid reason for action. So, even though you didn't state that a violent child could result in immediate termination, that may well be regarded as a reasonable step to take, particularly as you have a statutory duty to all children in respect to safeguarding.

[The Juggler]

agree with the others honey. If your council provided contracts I would assume they were NCMA ones - what on earth are they doing providing contracts!

MM are very good and you don't need to use their own contracts to be insured by them BUT it does depend on the content of the contracts you've used - I'd hope council provided ones would be OK.

It's VERY important you speak to MM asap. Yes, parents can sue for loss of earnings where no notice is given for termination BUT in the absence of a specific clause for dangerous behaviour in your contract you should be able to use behaviour policy extracts /parent responsibilities at the setting/your duties to keeping mindees safe as a loophole to terminate early for the same reasons.

Is there anything written into your behaviour policy that would cover you? Try not to worry AND don't pay Dad back. MM will go through all these questions with you.

[Kiddleywinks]

Just wondering if there's any updates?

[rickysmiths]

agree with the others honey. If your council provided contracts I would assume they were NCMA ones - what on earth are they doing providing contracts!

MM are very good and you don't need to use their own contracts to be insured by them BUT it does depend on the content of the contracts you've used - I'd hope council provided ones would be OK.

It's VERY important you speak to MM asap. Yes, parents can sue for loss of earnings where no notice is given for termination BUT in the absence of a specific clause for dangerous behaviour in your contract you should be able to use behaviour policy extracts /parent responsibilities at the setting/your duties to keeping mindees safe as a loophole to terminate early for the same reasons.

Is there anything written into your behaviour policy that would cover you? Try not to worry AND don't pay Dad back. MM will go through all these questions with you.

It doesn't sound as if they were though because the NCMA Contracts allow you to terminate without notice for cases such as this and the parents are still expected to pay the 4 weeks fees in lieu of notice.

[BucksCM]

Oh mY...I really hope you haven't paid him back!!!

[kaykaymoo]

Hello all!! so sorry for the delay in replying.
Well the outcome was, i did pay him his money back, but I got him to sighn a letter that i stated that i was doing this and that he would not take the matter any further.
I was supposed to go round his house to drop off the money and sign letter, but he ended up turning up on my doorstep!!! I was glad he did though in the end as I really think he thought i was some silly little girl who he could push around.
Well he didn't bank on my husband being there!!! hahaha!! My hubby stood there the whole time with his arms folded like a bouncer, the mans face was a picture!!
In the end after another discussion over the matter, we all agreed to go our seperate ways, and shook on it.
Well its a week on and ive not heard a thing, and whilst taking my daughter to school this morniing we spotted him walking to the station in work clothes and no child with him, so he is obvoiusly back at work and found some other poor sole to look after the little one.
I have learned such a hard lesson through this, and I will never ever make that mistake again, as I am new to this it just didn't occur to me.
Something nice did happen though, on Monday when i got one of my other mindees, the mum (who new nothing of what had happend) gave me a tip with my money as she said her little one is soooo happy with me and talks about me all the time when he is at home, you can probably all imagin how fantastic that made me feel after all that had happened.
Well thank you all for your fantastic advice and support, hopfully this is the end of it all now, although, i probably won't relax compleatley until a month or two has passed
:)

[cathtee]

So glad that you got sorted, what a lovely gesture from your lo's mum it just goes to show that you are really appreciated and that man was just not a nice person:rolleyes: (thats me being polite)

[kellyskidz!]

So glad this got sorted for you, I would have been worrying myself silly too!! Its especially bad with us being new to this, and everything seems scary enough anyway, without mean parents lol! It deffo seems like you did the right thing, and at least you know what to do if this situation happens again. Good luck with future Childminding, and fingers crossed for you that it all goes as smoothly as possible from now on :) xxxx