EYFS SEPT 2012 QUESTION

[jellytots2912]

Hi i am wondering if anyone can answer this question for me. i have myself a 2 year old and a 6 month old baby i am going to take on in august a 3 year old and a 6 year old, under the new legislation am i then able to take on another baby under 1 as the other child under one in my care is my own ???

please help i dont want to take another baby on an get into trouble

thanks :-) x

[Bridey]

No - you can only grant yourself a variation if its a sibling or a continuity of care issue - you can't do it to take on a completely new child.

[The Juggler]

Bridey I though I understood from the new legislation that you could vary your conditions to accommodate a child of your own? or does that only include you maybe having a baby whilst you already mind one??

not liking these new VERY grey guidelines :panic:

[blue bear]

Bridey I though I understood from the new legislation that you could vary your conditions to accommodate a child of your own? or does that only include you maybe having a baby whilst you already mind one??

not liking these new VERY grey guidelines :panic:

I thought that was only to allow you to have two under one if you had a baby of your own under one and new business is also baby under one, but still keeping to 3 under 5

[jellytots2912]

i am really confused this isnt good lol x

my interpretation was that my child under one was counted in my numbers but not as an under 1 if that makes sense i think i may ring ofsted to clarify :-) i am thinking there is gonna be alot of minders that misinterpret this changes and end up over their numbers :-( x

[The Juggler]

i think maybe you are allowed to give yourself a variation for either 4 under 5's (with only 1 under 1) OR 2 under 1's as long as you stay with 3 under 5's??

who knows. this is definately NOT very clear. IMO I would always ring ofsted JUST to check :)

[sarah707]

We have to stop thinking about variations in the same terms as we do now.

None of the new guidance coming out of Ofsted is using words like 'continuity of care' or 'new business'.

The guidance is clear - 6 under 8, 3 under 5 of whom 1 is under 1 - like now.

In exceptional circumstances such as following the examples in the EYFS these numbers can be changed.

You can only change them IF you have a risk assessment which shows you can manage the change AND IF parents sign to say they are happy with the change.

Hth :D

[Bridey]

I thought that was only to allow you to have two under one if you had a baby of your own under one and new business is also baby under one, but still keeping to 3 under 5

I thought you could only take on the new baby if it was a sibling of a child you already had. The poster is looking to have 4 under 5, including her own child, by taking on a new baby.

[Bridey]

This is what Penny (who has researched this in detail) said on another thread ... yesterday I think.



Everyone will (eventually) get new certificates that do not state numbers of children or have any conditions of registration.

Variations will no longer need to be applied for. We will all have to maintain the ratio's within the EYFS and if we need to increase our numbers (for continuity of care or siblings) we will have to to risk assess if we can meet all childrens needs and consult with all parents using oure service.

We will not be able to increase our numbers for new business

We will have to maintain the 'no more than 6 children under 8yrs of age at any one time' rule

Hope that helps

Penny :)

[Bridey]

But then again - here is a completely different view on the whole thing :rolleyes:

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=103009

Sorry - people have been posting more info on here while I was searching and researching for an answer!

[The Juggler]

We have to stop thinking about variations in the same terms as we do now.

None of the new guidance coming out of Ofsted is using words like 'continuity of care' or 'new business'.

The guidance is clear - 6 under 8, 3 under 5 of whom 1 is under 1 - like now.

In exceptional circumstances such as following the examples in the EYFS these numbers can be changed.

You can only change them IF you have a risk assessment which shows you can manage the change AND IF parents sign to say they are happy with the change.

Hth :D

i understood it to be different Sarah. that's why I think it is VERY grey it in what it allows. The exceptional circumstances have ALWAYS been there and have only ever applied to siblings, continuity of car but the new regulations allow you to self =vary (with risk assessment and parental permission) to allows 2 babies under 1 for siblings, continuity of care of when you have your own child - however, it does not clarify whether you can do both i.e. have 2 children under 1 year (if one is your own) as well as have 4 under 5's if one or more of these is your own.

In theory, as long as you are not going over 6 under 8's this should be fine, but reading between the lines it is not :panic:

[jellytots2912]

well i have emailed ofsted for a response i will post it when i receive it.

figure i will try and get it in writing so if they do say yes then i have something to fall back on when someone else says oh no your not allowed to do that lol :-) thanks very much everyone x

[marnieb]

In theory, as long as you are not going over 6 under 8's this should be fine, but reading between the lines it is not :panic:

This is what is confusing me - as far as i can understand we can have 6 under 8, if you had them all under 5 it woud be okay as long as you have the necessary ra's & signatures. This could help me a lot as I could move my 1 child I have on a Friday to a Tuesday ( so not new business had child for over 1.5 yrs) and then have fridays off?????

[sarah707]

i understood it to be different Sarah. that's why I think it is VERY grey it in what it allows. The exceptional circumstances have ALWAYS been there and have only ever applied to siblings, continuity of car but the new regulations allow you to self =vary (with risk assessment and parental permission) to allows 2 babies under 1 for siblings, continuity of care of when you have your own child - however, it does not clarify whether you can do both i.e. have 2 children under 1 year (if one is your own) as well as have 4 under 5's if one or more of these is your own.

In theory, as long as you are not going over 6 under 8's this should be fine, but reading between the lines it is not :panic:

It will make no difference whether the child is your own or a childminded child when the new requirements come into force in Sept.

That has been clarified yesterday by my contact at Ofsted -

The EYFS does not make any distinction between any times the childminder’s own children will be with them or with someone else. It simply says that the numbers of children include the childminder’s own children and any other children for whom they are responsible.

You can change ratios in exceptional circumstances as long as you are within the rules - 6 under 8 ... 3 under 5 ... of whom 1 is under 1 - except in exceptional circumstances when you can have, for example, 2 under 1.

If someone is going to stretch it by saying they want 2 under 1 as well as 4 under 5 to make up their 6 under 8 then I think they will have a very hard time proving how they meet all their learning, care and safety needs!!

Plus getting permission from all the parents - surely one set of parents will see that their child is not going to have their needs fully met with 6 under 5 in the house all day!!

Yes ok perhaps / maybe / possibly in very exceptional circumstances - an hour crossover or similar - BUT you have to also ask yourself whether Ofsted would allow that now - and what kind of can of worms you are opening by trying it.

Hth :D