NCMA or MM

[sam411]

Hi everyone, I know its been done to death but just can't decide who to go with for insurance etc. MM seem to be cheaper, can use your own paperwork and seem to help out more if non payment parents etc. But I'm thinking NCMA will help me more as a childminder in other issues. I know you can go with MM for insurance and NCMA as a member but would prefer just to do one or the other. Any more input would be great, have mentioned this in another thread but still can't decide :panic:
Thank you.

[mummyof3]

When I first started out I used NCMA as I found their paperwork easy to understand and it just made the job much easier to start with. I was with them for three years but this year I joined MM because of the increasing costs. MM were half the price and they included cover for my assistant free of charge where NCMA wanted an extra £5 and then an extra £5 for the certificate!! :angry:

NCMA you can only use their contracts but MM you can use any including your own.

[rickysmiths]

First things first.

Don't muddle up the cost of insurance and the cost of membership!

Ncma are much cheaper than MM for insurance I paid £21 plus £5 for my employers cert for my assistant so £26 for the year then I paid more to be a member to access the cheap insurance.

MM make all the people buying their insurance pay for employers insurance even if they don't need/want it whereas NCMA don't make people who don't want/need it pay for it. Their insurance is around £50 I believe so much more expensive.

Yes if you ever want legal representation from NCMA they prefer that you have used the NCMA paperwork. I have always used it anyway and find it clear. It isn't expensive and why invent your own and then find especially with a Contract that you haven't covered everything?

Yes despite what you often read on the forum NCMA does do a lot of work for all childminders and at the moment are the only organisation that do so. They are not perfect but what organisation is? At least they give their membership a say in what happens.

[sam411]

With NCMA is it just their contracts you have to use, or is it all forms they have like child info forms etc?

[rickysmiths]

With NCMA is it just their contracts you have to use, or is it all forms they have like child info forms etc?

The min is just the Contracts :thumbsup:

[sarah707]

Their insurance is around £50 I believe so much more expensive.
.

No Rickysmiths you are wrong. Morton Michel insurance currently costs £44.

It was recently clarified by a childminder on this forum that NCMA require childminders to use their paperwork as opposed to your comment that they 'prefer' it.

Sam411 you need to weigh up the benefits to you, for example -

With MM insurance you have free membership to a childcare club ... with NCMA you pay to be a member of their organisation.

With MM insurance you have lots of childminders who will tell you that their legal cover is second to none (me among them) ... with NCMA I understand they have recently changed their legal advice provider to improve the service but I don't have recent feedback on whether it has improved.

With MM insurance you are covered automatically if you bring someone in to help you out ... with NCMA linked insurance you can let children use a piece of garden equipment you have built ...

With NCMA membership you belong to a nationwide group of childminders and yes NCMA have in the past supported childminders... however things are currently changing within NCMA internal structure.

MM insurance are currently looking at how to better support their members and they have a number of exciting plans in the pipeline.

I suggest you go through the policy documents and check the cover that is right for you!

Hth :D

[rickysmiths]

No Rickysmiths you are wrong. Morton Michel insurance currently costs £44.

It was recently clarified by a childminder on this forum that NCMA require childminders to use their paperwork as opposed to your comment that they 'prefer' it.

Sam411 you need to weigh up the benefits to you, for example -

With MM insurance you have free membership to a childcare club ... with NCMA you pay to be a member of their organisation.

I'm not sure that isn't comparing Apples and Pears Sarah? The club which is free does not really compare to being a member of an organization like NCMA


With MM insurance you have lots of childminders who will tell you that their legal cover is second to none (me among them) ... with NCMA I understand they have recently changed their legal advice provider to improve the service but I don't have recent feedback on whether it has improved.

With MM insurance you are covered automatically if you bring someone in to help you out ... with NCMA linked insurance you can let children use a piece of garden equipment you have built ...

The extra cover can be arranged in five mins over the phone.

With NCMA membership you belong to a nationwide group of childminders and yes NCMA have in the past supported childminders... however things are currently changing within NCMA internal structure.

They are changing but they will not be stopping representing childminders at all. It is their core membership at 37,000 members

MM insurance are currently looking at how to better support their members and they have a number of exciting plans in the pipeline.

I'm sorry but you can't describe people who buy their insurance from MM as members. they are customers and MM have no vested interest in Childminders than as retaining their custom.

I suggest you go through the policy documents and check the cover that is right for you!

Hth :D

Sarah the only NCMA paperwork you have to use is the Contracts you can use your own for everything else if that is what you prefer.

Thank you for confirming the cost of MM that is why I said about but is includes Employers Insurance whereas the NCMA one doesn't.

I have made a few other comments as well I'm afraid.

[sam411]

Thanks everyone for your help so far, still not sure though lol. My gut was to go with NCMA as I had heard of them before, but hadn't heard of MM, but lots of people rate them. I think my issue more is not the insurance or contract side but whether I need to be part of a childminder organisation. Mind you most of my questions/help needed can be gained from this forum:)! Urghh there's so much to think about with childminding!! Best go and get ready for my first potential parent's visit. Will have another think and read through both groups again, any more comments gratefullu received. Thanks again so far!!!

[christine e]

In the next few days you should be hearing from ncma regarding new benefits available to their members which have been developed in conjunction with ******. You will be able to set up your own web page to advertise your setting and services, make use of an online vacancy matching service and access free downloadable EYFS & Foundation phase resources tailored to meet childminders' needs.

I have been involved in testing out this, it is very simple to use and I understand that you will be hearing from ncma very very soon.

Christine

[zippy]

MM is great, paperwork is really clear, I would recommend their contracts as everything is in it eg outings permission suncream etc, so no getting caught out at inspection time and I don't really think they're expensive not for how often you use them. I use their contracts the. My own paperwork for everything else. You also get a free monthly e-magazine, creative minds. They're offering tons more support now from when I first registered. Also I can vouch for their payment recovery, ace service, all dealt with by a dedicated solicitor, who emailed me regulaly with updates. I did try ncma ages ago, when I was registered previously 1999 I think, and quite frankly didn't see anything for my membership money, probably different now with all the eyfs, but back then they were rubbish quite frankly. Not sure if it's the same now but the reason I left them for insurance is because you weren't allowed it unless you were a member which I found a complete rip off at about £60 I think.

[bunyip]

As a new-ish CM, I find this NCMA versus MM thing confusing.

As I understand it, NCMA is an organisation that supports its members in many ways, including insurance, and are just about the only one that's currently campaigning to protect the whole childminding profession from government proposals that could be very destructive to our livelihoods.

AFAIK, MM is an insurance company that specialises in childcare policies, then does a few extra bits along the way (eg. magazine, paperwork, etc.) I looked at their website and this hasn't changed my first impression.

As a member of one and not the other, I know more about NCMA than I do about MM.

Can anyone put me right or enlighten me, please?

[bunyip]

< Post removed by admin - potentially libellous comment. Explanation sent to OP >

[rickysmiths]

As a new-ish CM, I find this NCMA versus MM thing confusing.

As I understand it, NCMA is an organisation that supports its members in many ways, including insurance, and are just about the only one that's currently campaigning to protect the whole childminding profession from government proposals that could be very destructive to our livelihoods.

AFAIK, MM is an insurance company that specialises in childcare policies, then does a few extra bits along the way (eg. magazine, paperwork, etc.) I looked at their website and this hasn't changed my first impression.

As a member of one and not the other, I know more about NCMA than I do about MM.

Can anyone put me right or enlighten me, please?

You summary is correct. You cannot be a Member of MM because they are soley an insurance broker whose aim is to sell insurance. The added extras are to sweeten the deal for childminder and they my or may not do similar for other groups whose business they want. They have no interest in childminders apart form attracting their insurance business.

NCMA are the only organisation that truely represents the needs of childminders and offers insurance for Public Liability at a cheap rate for their members.

Blu Fin who advertise in NCMA publications and sometimes imply they are tied to NCMA are actually not. They are just the same as MM an insurance broker who offers insurance for childminders.

[rickysmiths]

There is a lot that a childminder can do to protect themselves against getting into the position of a parent leaving owing money anyway.

The first is to take a 4 weeks fees deposit when a parent signs a contract which is kept to the end of the contract to cover the four weeks notice as long as all fees are paid up to date.

The second is to always be paid in advance and have a note on the contract that if fees are not paid then childcare does not take place until fees are paid up to date. You always have the four weeks fees in the bank as security and if this is done and adhered to no childminder should ever need to be in a position of being owed fees.

I also have in my Fees policy that is a parent leaves at any time in the first six months they pay the notice period and forfeit their deposit. If they reduce their hours in the first six months they forfeit that % of the deposit.

Doing this is no problem for most parents because they will be in your care for more than six months. You can still decide to return or use the deposit for the notice period genuine or exceptional cases. I had one where the couple signed up for the long term and dad was unexpectedly offered a job abroad by his company and they were gone in five months! I did use their deposit for the notice period. But it does sort out ans stop anyone registering with you for your reg number and then disappearing or using you until they get a place at nursery, we all had a lot of this happening last year.

I do have sympathy when a childminder is left owed loads of money but I do think we all have the solution in our own hands so it never happens.

The key is to have clearly written into your contract that care stops if fees are not paid up to date by a certain time, mine is after 4 weeks because that deposit covers up to 4 weeks and I won't work when I am not being paid.

[bunyip]

Thanks for the clarification.