Can I do this?

[Debster]

I am up to my limit on numbers every day all my kids fit in on different days like a jigsaw until now. One of the parents has asked to change days this would make me over my numbers in theory but not physically its confusing I know. the child in question is at nursery 9.00-12.00 so I have her before and after nursery but charge all day because I have her in school hols and she is taking up a space. Now the other child that will take me over my numbers comes 9.15 until 11.15 so is coming when the other is at nursery so I have

child 1 8.00 9.00 then 12.00-4.30
child 2 9.15-11.15
child 3 8.30-2.30
child 4 10.00-4.00

so I never have more that 3 in my physical care at one time but I am still charging for the one at nursery
2 of the children are term time only so I will still not be over in the school hols.
suppose it would have been easier to say are you able to take on a child for the time that another child is at nursery only?

sorry for waffling:panic:

[caz3007]

I dont think you would be able to in my opinion as the nursery child has paid for the whole day and what if the nursery had to close for whatever reason. Ours has closed cos there was a burst main, sewerage problems, no electricity and of course snow.

[sarah707]

I have crossed children over like that before BUT not if I am charging for them.

If I am charging then I am responsible for collecting them in an emergency - and that would take me over my numbers.

Hth :D

[linda2girls]

Apply for a variation and see what they say. It's not new business, so you could apply on the grounds on continuity of care.

Linda.

[flowerpots]

Apply for a variation and see what they say. It's not new business, so you could apply on the grounds on continuity of care.

Linda.

This is what i would do. :thumbsup:

[Debster]

I have crossed children over like that before BUT not if I am charging for them.

If I am charging then I am responsible for collecting them in an emergency - and that would take me over my numbers.

Hth :D

Yes but it would be just 2 hrs if that very unlikely situation occured if it was teachers training for instance then the other mindee would be off because his siblings would be home so mum would too. Are you not allowed to go over your numbers in an emergency?

[Debster]

It just seems like unnecessary paperwork to apply for a variation if the situation of being over my numbers should never occur and the child will be leaving mid July and from what I understand it can take a while to get it agreed Maybe I should make a call to Ofsted and ask the question.

[gigglinggoblin]

Variation forms really arent difficult to fill in, call Ofsted and they can email it to you. Much better than getting stuck because you just know it will happen if you take the chance! I have a variation because a child I already cared for wanted extra hours. Easy peasy.

[The Juggler]

i would apply for a variation so that if you ever need cover for snow days/inset days you have everything in place - not sure ofsted would class school closure as an emergency.:)

[miffy]

It just seems like unnecessary paperwork to apply for a variation if the situation of being over my numbers should never occur and the child will be leaving mid July and from what I understand it can take a while to get it agreed Maybe I should make a call to Ofsted and ask the question.

I see where you're coming from but you can apply for a variation online and it's better to be safe than sorry - if a complaint was made against you Ofsted would take a dim view if they found you were over your numbers, not sure what the implications for your insurance would be either.

Miffy xx

[LauraS]

It's a bit of a moral issue too - the reason (presumably) that you charge for the nursery child whilst he is at nursery is because you cannot fill his space for that time - but you have. What if you offered the nursery parent the reduction for the hours he is at nursery on the proviso that you are not available to her during that time, for emergencies/inset days etc?

You could then freely take on the new child. You would be no better off in the short term but would be better off when the nursery child leaves you in July?

[JulieA]

It's a bit of a moral issue too - the reason (presumably) that you charge for the nursery child whilst he is at nursery is because you cannot fill his space for that time - but you have. What if you offered the nursery parent the reduction for the hours he is at nursery on the proviso that you are not available to her during that time, for emergencies/inset days etc?

You could then freely take on the new child. You would be no better off in the short term but would be better off when the nursery child leaves you in July?

I think this is what I would do in the circumstances.

[Little'Peeps']

i would apply for a variation so that if you ever need cover for snow days/inset days you have everything in place - not sure ofsted would class school closure as an emergency.:)

Thats great i dint even know you could do this. This would solve a massive issue for me. Thanks

[The Juggler]

I think this is what I would do in the circumstances.

i agree to some extent but if you need to have a variation in place anyway you could potentially charge for both children but I'd be inclined to give first mum the reduction.

Ofsted will not grant a variation for new business but will for continuity of care so my plan would be:

take on new child for the "fill in " hours.
stop charging original mum
in a few weeks apply for a variation for the new child to cover inset days/emergencies which they will probably grant no problem.

Then you just charge both parents additional hours as they use them.

[Mouse]

I don't see why you can't do it.

As long as you never have more than 3 children in your care, then you are OK.

Problems would occur if there was a cross over time when you did have more than 3 children - ie. what if one parent was late collecting, or the other one needed to arrive early. And what if nursery was shut for some reason?
As long as you've considered all the times when things don't run to plan & you could potentially have more than 3 children, then you would be OK as long as you're satisfied that it would never happen.

If there was any chance that you could ever have more than 3 children, I would apply for a variation. It's easy to do online & is likely to be granted as it's all for continuity of care. Once it's done you'd not have to worry about any cross over time.

[Debster]

Well I called Ofsed today and went through it with a lady on the phone. She said I need not apply for a variation as the situation would probably not occur. she said if the school was to close for an inset day or unforeseeable closure I could call up that day and get an emergency variation granted for 2 hrs no problem. :thumbsup:

[The Juggler]

Well I called Ofsed today and went through it with a lady on the phone. She said I need not apply for a variation as the situation would probably not occur. she said if the school was to close for an inset day or unforeseeable closure I could call up that day and get an emergency variation granted for 2 hrs no problem. :thumbsup:

trust them to think it would probably not occur :rolleyes: what if you end up having to have both children all day - it would be a longer variation then. Or if it's a snow closure it could be several days.

I would go for it anyway just to cover yourself hon.

[kindredspirits]

as far as I can tell it is a moral issue only - do you charge mum 1 for a full days care when you are full for part of that time that mindee isn't with you?
personally - as mum is the one throwing a spanner in the works by wanting to change days, i WOULD charge for the full day even though another mindee was using the space whilst she was at nursery. i would apply for a variation based on the assumption that the 2nd parent could be late collecting on occassion which would take you over your numbers.

[Debster]

trust them to think it would probably not occur :rolleyes: what if you end up having to have both children all day - it would be a longer variation then. Or if it's a snow closure it could be several days.

I would go for it anyway just to cover yourself hon.

It is only 1 day it could occur and for 2 hrs and tbh if the school was closed the other child that I have for the 2 hrs would not come anyway because the parent has 3 other children at the school so she would not go to college in that instance same with teachers training it would only be if the parent was more than 1 hr late to collect. there is no cross over anywhere else. one of the other mindees I have that day comes at 10.00 so I may ask mum to bring him at 11.00 instead as she does not work so it would not be any concern for me to shuffle her around she can be flexible