Accredited childminders

[kim-d]

Hi All
Just wondering has anyone gone through the process of being accredited so they can deliver the free 15 hours for 3 year olds and over. How long did the process take to do? I have heard off some people the funding can be a bit of a pain is this true or is it quite straight forward? Any feedback would be great.

[linzi133]

I've just done it. In my area (Northumberland) it took me a term. It can take longer depending on experience etc.
hope that helps

[jadavi]

I managed to get on a local free Eyps course which took a school year.their advertising is awful tho - you need to really look for it. I only found it by total chance chatting to the tutor at an early years display .

[Mouse]

You need to contact your local authority early years team as it varies greatly from place to place.

Our current scheme is quite straight forward if you already have a level 3 qualification and are graded good or outstanding. It used to be a dreadful process, but they are trying to attract more childminders onto it at the moment so are making it simpler. I had a visit from the development officer and some paperwork to complete. That was it really.

[bunyip]

It's a total mess in my area. The LA is handing over the accreditation process to the local NCMA in return for funding the NCMA office. They've been "consulting" on the accreditation requirements for months and no-one appears to know what's happening. My DO thinks that a level 3 qualification and good/outstanding grade will be required, but not sure. I'm therefore slogging my way through the diploma with no certainty that I actually need to, but if I'd put it off then the funding would've disappeared. I don't think I've learnt a single thing on the diploma that would be of any practical use: just the dates of a few Acts of Parliament. It's just wasting time that I could've spent on actually improving my service for the lo's.

I've been put on the list to receive funded 'disadvantaged' 2yo's without any of this fuss. Not that I've had any referrals, so I have no idea why they're running that scheme either. It's insane that they're (theoretically) happy to fund a 2yo with me, but I have to jump through hoops to have a 3-4yo funded. Even if they did get round to placing a 2yo with me, then there's no prospect of continuity of care. The moment they're 3yo, the funding stops and the mum has to find the fee. I mean, is any mum with a 'disadvantaged' family likely to climb the promotion ladder so quickly that her wages will suddenly jump in less than a year? Mad.

It's an absolute farce, given that the number of funded places is suppoesed to be increasing. I'm beginning to think they only want nurseries to have the funding, to keep it simple.

[sarah707]

It was quite an easy process here in Cheshire East - but then we found out the fees would be less than our normal hourly rate...

Then the 2 children I had lined up for funded places were told (well their parents were told) by nurseries that they HAD to receive their funding in the nursery or it would affect all kinds of things including school entry - so I lost the children anyway

It can work well in some areas I believe...

[ChildcareCate]

I am about to start the process. As I am doing my Diploma they are letting me hold off on completing the Quality Assurance part of it until I have finished. Our local group is very active and well-supported by the local council. They also have a childminding business advisor that will help you when you have to explain to parents that although government is funding the 3 hours, it is less than my usual hourly rate and they will need to make up the short-fall. Not looking forward to that bit!!
I am hoping it will be straight forward and worth it!

[blue bear]

Here you need a level3, safeguarding level 2 (sometimes called foundation),score 4 or above fcccers, attend a course which includes home work, 3 hours a week for 4 weeks in an evening, have a good or outstanding ofsted rating and undertake some assessment (think 4) by the development worker at your home.

Once you have jumped through all the hoops is pretty much back to normal, apart from monitoring visits and paper work to claim your money.

[bunyip]

I am about to start the process. As I am doing my Diploma they are letting me hold off on completing the Quality Assurance part of it until I have finished. Our local group is very active and well-supported by the local council. They also have a childminding business advisor that will help you when you have to explain to parents that although government is funding the 3 hours, it is less than my usual hourly rate and they will need to make up the short-fall. Not looking forward to that bit!!
I am hoping it will be straight forward and worth it!

OMG. Now I'm even more confused. My DO told me that was strictly forbidden. I just wish someone in my county had the first idea, cos I certainly don't.

As I don't have a set hourly rate, but negotiate each contract individually, I can't see how they can dictate to CMs what to charge for the hours the parents pays anyway.

[Mouse]

OMG. Now I'm even more confused. My DO told me that was strictly forbidden. I just wish someone in my county had the first idea, cos I certainly don't.

As I don't have a set hourly rate, but negotiate each contract individually, I can't see how they can dictate to CMs what to charge for the hours the parents pays anyway.

My understanding is that you can't charge a top up fee for the funded hours. So if a child came to you for only 3 hours a day, you couldn't charge them any extra. But if a child came to you for 10 hours a day you could charge a higher rate for the other 7 hours, so making up your normal daily amount.

I have one child comes to me for 6 hours over a week. I charge £5 an hour. Our LA pays about £3.70 for funded 3yr olds. I'd not be allowed to charge a top up for the 6 hours I'd have him, so would lose out. He's not 3 yet, but when he gets there, I'll probably have to refuse to give him a funded place

Another lo comes 27hrs a week & pays £4 an hour. I'll do his 15 hours at £3.70, then charge the other 12 hours at a slightly enhanced rate. It's not so much of a difference for that child, but I still don't see why I should lose out on 30p an hour!

[bunyip]

Thanks Mouse. That makes perfect sense to me: I wish you could explain it to my DO too.

My DO seems to think we all have to have a single advertised rate which we charge everyone, no matter what the circumstances. She can't get her head round me having different rates cos my client's needs are all different. I sometimes wonder if some DO's can only think in terms of what they did when they used to be CMs and can't cope with anyone who is doing things differently.

[sarah707]

It is illegal to charge top up fees - the rate you are paid by the LA must be the rate you receive for the child - the 15 hours MUST be free to parents...

Sorry childcarecate you will need to think of another way of making your business pay because you cannot ask parents for more money for the sessions and you must give them the opportunity to send food ie. you cannot even ask them to pay extra for meals or snacks the child has during the sessions.

You can't even offer the 15 hours as part of a package where you charge extra for other hours to make up the short fall - if parents just want 15 free hours then that is what you must offer them.

This is why so many nurseries and pre-schools are finding that the funded sessions simply don't give them enough income to survive - a lot are in financial dire straits

I hope this clarifies for those who have sent me pms to check the requirements

[bunyip]

Oh help, I'm befuddled again now.

Let's assume a CM takes on a child for 15 hours funded, plus some additional hours.

The parent gets 15 hours for free, for which the CM gets say £3.75ph and doesn't charge any additions to that for the free 15 hours. (OK, I get that bit.)

Does the CM have to charge only £3.75ph for the additional hours too, ie. the hours that the parent does pay for?

Or is the CM allowed to charge up to their 'normal rate' for the additional hours?

What if (like me and some other CMs) there is no 'normal rate'?

What if some of the hours are taken at "anti-social hours" like evenings and weekends, when the CM would usually be charging a higher rate anyway?

Also, what happens to the funding if there are absences for any reason? Does the CM get paid if the lo is sick or goes on holiday when the CM is open?

[sarah707]

Oh help, I'm befuddled again now.

Let's assume a CM takes on a child for 15 hours funded, plus some additional hours.

The parent gets 15 hours for free, for which the CM gets say £3.75ph and doesn't charge any additions to that for the free 15 hours. (OK, I get that bit.)

Does the CM have to charge only £3.75ph for the additional hours too, ie. the hours that the parent does pay for?

No, you would charge your normal rate

Or is the CM allowed to charge up to their 'normal rate' for the additional hours?

What if (like me and some other CMs) there is no 'normal rate'?

You cannot be seen to be charging a parent extra to make up a shortfall - that's not inclusive.

So you can't charge £4 per hour for Flossie and Jane who attend 2 days a week each - but £4.50 per hour for George because he has 15 hours free but as you receive a much lower rate than your normal rate you want to make up some of the difference on the extra hours mum wants...

What if some of the hours are taken at "anti-social hours" like evenings and weekends, when the CM would usually be charging a higher rate anyway?

Well yes as long as it is your normal rate - all families would pay the same amount regardless of whether the children come for funded sessions or not.

Also, what happens to the funding if there are absences for any reason? Does the CM get paid if the lo is sick or goes on holiday when the CM is open?

This is a grey area - some LAs did big audits last year and claimed back funding for children who did not attend / were on long term sick etc - but it didn't happen everywhere.

I think it will become more common though because they are all getting tighter with money.

This is my understanding based on reading (and re-reading) the Cheshire 'rule book' for funded hours

[bunyip]

Btw, sorry for so many "what if?"questions but it may be relevant to a couple of enquiries I've had.

I have a situation where mum#1 wants me to have her lo's from September. One will be at school, and the other would take my last EY place. I'm aiming to be accredited by then, as the mum really needs the 15 hours free if it's going to be affordable. I'd like to have them as it would give me 1 then both as school runs for a number of years, all being well.

This is complicated by mum#2 who is enquiring about care to start well before September. She has an EY child, and no particular need for a funded place. She can start earlier (good) but no guarantee of a place at the school I pick up from when the time comes, so may end up offering me work only in the short-term (not so good.)

Mum#1 appreciates that I don't want to turn down mum#2 who would be earning money for me at an earlier date. (In any case, mum#1 looks like the better long-term prospect.) Therefore, mum#1 has offered to pay a retainer should I otherwise be in a position to take on mum#2. Before I could take a retainer, I'd need to have a contract agreed with mum#1, and can't begin to figure this out until I know quite what I'd be permitted to charge as she'll eventually using "free 15 hours, plus additional hours."

Why is my life so complicated?

[sarah707]

As part of my commitment to offering the free 15 hours I had to write a fees schedule which showed what I would charge and when and how I would offer the 15 hours so it covered -

15 hours - free

Free hours to be offered -

3 days @ 5 hours per day between the hours of xx

2 days @ 7.5 hours per day between the hours of xx

If child needs a meal during the 15 hours this can be provided by parents. If parents want me to supply the meal my normal charges are -

Breakfast - £

Lunch - £

Snack - £

Tea - £

Extra hours - £x / hour normal rate

Antisocial hours - £xx / hour normal rate

There was more but I've filed it somewhere safe and can't remember just now...

I'd go for the bird in hand personally - you never know what will change between now and Sept.

Hth

[TAZ]

The confusion over all this and the difference between 'normal' hourly rate & funded rate in my area does not make this a very attractive option. I would have to do more work (possibly more training for which I get no funding) - but not clear what - and get paid less???? Apparently very little benefit to the children.

Most children here go to play group at age 2 or 3 (1 in the village) then onto Nursery school (1 in the village), 5 sessions a week, the Sept or Jan before they start school. Both of which are Excellent & provide a different input to childminding setting. So they use their free 15 hours there anyway.

[bunyip]

Thanks Sarah. I've noted your schedule for future reference.

I agree your 'bird in hand' logic makes perfect sense. My case is rather complicated by other factors, some of which are confidentiality issues which I won't go into further.

Some of it is just me regretting that the enquiries came in the wrong chronological order. Whilst I never made a firm commitment to mum#1, I was impressed by her forward thinking/planning (just the kind of family I think I could work with) and I didn't feel right just saying she'd have to ask nearer the time. In fact she wanted me to have both immediately, but couldn't afford it and I don't have 2 EY spaces anyway, so she realised it'd have to wait until the elder starts school. I'm being a bit soft too, cos I know they both hate the nursery they're stuck in and have never really settled there. Knowing what I know, I can't bear to think of the younger one alone at nursery when the older one starts school.

Accreditation was on my long-term 'to do' list, and I guess it just got brought forward through a combination of this mum and the need to rush into the diploma whilst the funding was still available.

[kim-d]

Thanks for all your comments it all sounds complicated and so much messing about. My network coordinator is coming out on the 14th Jan (phoned me this morning) Got so many questions to ask now before i proceed with this.
confused.com :doh

[Mouse]

Sarah, you say

You cannot be seen to be charging a parent extra to make up a shortfall - that's not inclusive.

So you can't charge £4 per hour for Flossie and Jane who attend 2 days a week each - but £4.50 per hour for George because he has 15 hours free but as you receive a much lower rate than your normal rate you want to make up some of the difference on the extra hours mum wants...

But what happens if you charge different rates already? How can anyone say we have to charge everyone the same rate? I don't. I don't even have fee increases across the board. All parents have fee increases at different times, Some might not have an increase on year, others will. If I am in the situation where a parent is receiving the 15hrs free & I need to make up any shortfall, I will introduce a fee increase at the same time as the funding starts.