Parents who decide what to pay

[sony123]

I have a new client who has signed all documents and has now decided they won't pay me the contracted hours as they want to keep the tax credits money for themselves I am fuming should I stop care immediately and loose a client or c if my insurance will pay whatever they refuse each week which is petrol n food!i thaght clients would b nice as they say I'm doing good job! Contracted hours r sixty a week for three kids but after tax credits paid then they decided to cut hours to half and only pay me hours they r with me minus holiday pay etc as in contract I need advice urgent please help Sony 123 xx I was thinking of telling them to find another childminder and find myself polite working class clients is their such a thing or does everyone else have verbal abusive clients?

[shortstuff]

Sorry but what hours are in the contracts? 60 hours per week each for three lo's? If this is the case they are breaching the contract so contact your insurance.

If you are talking about the tax credits they receive to pay for childcare and they now dont want to spend it on childcare is this not fraud?

I might have read your post wrongly, so apologise in advance if thats the case :-) hth

[Roseolivia]

I'd give notice and contact tax credits to let them know. Sounds like these parents have intentionally started on more hours to claim the credits and then once sorted reduced these hours so they can scam the system. If they've started off like this they'll only get worse. It's your business so they should respect that and pay what has been agreed on.

[merry]

I would give notice effective immediately due to verbal abuse and inform tax credits as what they're doing is fraud. You've been unlucky with this family, there are some good ones out there.

[blue bear]

Have they told you they are keeping tax credit money for themselves?
I take it they have given you the relevant notice to change hours as per the contract? It is then your decision if you want to change to the new hours, you are totally in your right to say no and end the contract at the end of the notice period. Always tell parents when they ask to end or change a contract that they must contact tax credits immediate to tell them of the change as you also have to ring and tell them yourself, (white lie but it keeps things above board) that the hours have changed and you wouldn't want them getting into any trouble if they didn't

You can report any suspected fraud, google benefit fraud line.

[sony123]

Hi, yep you read it right one child had a forty hour contract and older have 10 hours each so i told the client from the start even if they choose not to use the days /hours it is still the same price and they insisted on doing these hours in the contract As i would not be able to book anyone one else in at short notice so tax credits are paying them and they have cut the hours to less than half and are only paying what they want!

And not for food and petrol they said tax credits arent paying it all and they cannot afford it when i know their lying my client also has really bad post natal and was quite verbal abusive to me infront of everyone on my day of at my childs nursery which i feel disgusted about!

the kids are with me monday morning so do i tell the client the contract is in breach and cancel all care immediately ? i didnt want to as really enjoying working and due to her illness and anger might give me a bad referance or tell people im crap! or shall i get her to visit today at end of day and give me a letter with exact hours she wants to i can send this to tax credits? also she said she was not happy with my receipts as she wants me to order new invoices so she has a breakdown of hours etc! surely this isnt needed as everything is in the contract and tax credits if they are paying as stated in contract would pay most of this anyhow? please help not sure on what to do feel crap! and poor kids for having a nasty shouting mummy!they also said they wanted to sleep over which tells me home isnt a nice place!

[shortstuff]

Do you have a notice period in your contract? If you do point out to the mum that it applies to her as well as you and that includes changing hours. This means they owe you the full contracted amount until the notice period has ended. You also need amendments in writing with a copy sent to tax credits. As its been mentioned by someone else, point out to the mum that you also have a duty to keep tax credits informed of changes to hours. Even though you actually dont.

If you have concerns for the welfare of the lo's that is yet another issue.

[vikiwizz]

I agree, you need to tell these parents about your notice period, as it seems from your post they are trying to defraud the system with the vouchers. Although how can they 'withdraw' the vouchers without having an account fit them to go into?
If you think they are trying to do this as well, I would phone their voucher provider and let them know, that you you are making sure you are not implicated in this in any way if it does turn out to be true?

[Ripeberry]

Get rid of them straight away. Don't give them an inch. They have been abusive and telling you that they are happy to defraud! Hope you find a better family with more manners

[blue bear]

It's sounds to me like your heart is ruling your head at the moment, you like these children and want to do what is best for them. Let your head take charge for a minute, you are running a business and need to do so professionally.

Work out what you really want to do, as I see it you have two choices

a). You give notice on Monday morning for the notice period in your contract (mine says four weeks) you work the notice period and ring the fraud line and tell them what parents are doing regarding over claiming.

b) you get mum in for a nice calm meeting, this might be better done at yours over the weekend or evening without her children there and calmly explain you are willing to do the new hours, however you need it all to be in writing as you have to send a copy to the tax credits because they need to know what is being claimed against your ofsted number so when you do your accounts the tax office match up your income against the claims made In that year (mum won't know they don't do that). Then you need to sort out the invoices, set them out for each child, hours booked, hourly rate total charge, then a total at the bottom of the page, I do this for one of my families, mum prefers it this way, I write it up in the back of the lo's daily diary each month.
Make it clear the whole invoice needs to be paid for, no more paying for what they want. I'm unsure what you are charging them for petrol though?

Can you steer mum towards some help for her pnd? She is probably feeling out of control at the moment and shouting at you gives her some feeling of control even though it's wrong.

Don't let your heart rule you, this is a business and you can't let it affect your family, good luck it's very hard dealing with families with mental health issues and no one is going to blame you for giving notice if you feel that's the best thing to do.

[Pixie dust]

I do not understand what you have said about food and petrol are they paying this on top of your fees? Like everyone else has said you need to end this contract.

[Pixie dust]

I do not understand what you have said about food and petrol are they paying this on top of your fees? As I am on the understanding that we cannot charge for petrol costs.
Like everyone else has said you need to end this contract.

[migimoo]

I personally would go with BlueBear's option b)..."you get mum in for a nice calm meeting, this might be better done at yours over the weekend or evening without her children there and calmly explain you are willing to do the new hours, however you need it all to be in writing as you have to send a copy to the tax credits because they need to know what is being claimed against your ofsted number so when you do your accounts the tax office match up your income against the claims made In that year (mum won't know they don't do that). Then you need to sort out the invoices, set them out for each child, hours booked, hourly rate total charge, then a total at the bottom of the page, I do this for one of my families, mum prefers it this way, I write it up in the back of the lo's daily diary each month."

Sounds like the plan that may enable you to keep the family with the least upset...also explain to her that NOBODY has ALL of their childcare paid by tax credits...that's life!

One mum I have is on her own,lives in a horrid,damp,drug dealing in the stairwell, little council flat by me (her own words) and only gets a percentage of her fees paid but I know for a fact she'd go without paying any of her bills before not paying me,in fact she's walking to work each day atm as her car's died and she can't afford a new one (i give her lifts when i can) so the 'working class parent' bit is incorrect..in fact I find it's the ones that DO have plenty of disposable income that I struggle to get fees out of each month!

Good luck

[caz3007]

Sounds like the plan that may enable you to keep the family with the least upset...also explain to her that NOBODY has ALL of their childcare paid by tax credits...that's life!

One mum I have is on her own,lives in a horrid,damp,drug dealing in the stairwell, little council flat by me (her own words) and only gets a percentage of her fees paid but I know for a fact she'd go without paying any of her bills before not paying me,in fact she's walking to work each day atm as her car's died and she can't afford a new one (i give her lifts when i can) so the 'working class parent' bit is incorrect..in fact I find it's the ones that DO have plenty of disposable income that I struggle to get fees out of each month!

I also have a mum who gets some of her childcare paid by tax credits as she is on really rubbish money and would probably be better off not working and she pays me no problems. She had a huge tax credit cut due to a problem with her pay, not her fault as I know what happened and she still pays me no problems although I know its sometimes a real struggle. She makes cuts elsewhere, so I dont agree with the 'working class' bit either

I think you need to sit her down and tell her how it is and that you have to notify tax credits that her hours have gone down and that this is the cost of the new hours and it includes everything. I dont understand why she is with holding for food and petrol. If you charge extra for meals then its her perogative to send food for the children or not take up an evening meal option

[lubeam]

When I was on my own with my son I was entitled to full tax credit help towards child care costs because I worked 30 hours but that was only 70% perhaps explain this to mum as if she agrees to reducing her hours because she thinks her tax credits won't go down she's wrong and you'll end up in the same situation again with even less hours HTH?!

[The Juggler]

i would tell them they need to give you 4 weeks notice to reduce to half hours and that you will need full pay until that time.

Then, I would inform the tax fraud line of what is happening.

[wendywu]

When I was on my own with my son I was entitled to full tax credit help towards child care costs because I worked 30 hours but that was only 70% perhaps explain this to mum as if she agrees to reducing her hours because she thinks her tax credits won't go down she's wrong and you'll end up in the same situation again with even less hours HTH?!

What She plans to do is not tell tax credits that her hours have dropped so that the higher payments completely cover the reduced hours

[lubeam]

Wow Wendyww, some people are so sneaky !!!!

[Lilylulu]

we have an inclusive rate so that the hourly rate covers everything such as food, trips etc. would this help them? that way tax credits will pay their percentage of your total bill, leaving parent just to pay not the top up not the extras. We don't do this to cheat the system, its just for easy billing and encourages parents to have meals here instead of bringing junk food pack ups.

[sony123]

Thankyou for all your replies. I cannot believe a client i thaught was lovely has done this to me have been anxious all weekend grr!! Yes thats exactly what they have done done three seperate contracts to total 60 hours and then after two weeks of been fine and the children all settling in well and them saying they r happy with care. They cut hours to half and said they will only pay for the hours etc they r here so basically the contract means nothing now!

I tried to get client to come over on weekend but they refused and said they will discuss anything monday morning when they bring children and i said no it has to be sorted before you leave them here as contract is broken already! they were abusive and horrible to me on the phone and it made me feel verry intimidated which i do not want to feel! my business is all in order and they r trying to patronize me and tell me i am trying to scam them when in actual fact they r scamming the system by keeping money for themselves which is purely meant for childcare costs!and me as they havent been paying the contracted hours

Tomorrow morning they will either turn up n ignore the fact i want to talk to them or just not turn up hopefully as they r very abusive & vile! they also said on phone they will not be paying any extras or holiday pay which is all in contract!

should i cancel all care immediately without reason and ring cssiw tomorrow morning and explain the situation as i am due my first unannounced inspection and feel like crap now ! cant believe how shitty people can be! Also i will ring tax credits & the freud line! need to sleep but so anxious dont know what to do get up asif im working and act normal or ignore the front door as this person is way too abusive for my liking and i have children of my own here so really worried!