Need someone elses opinion please?xx

**Newbie1!** · 29-11-2011, 08:15 AM

Morning everyone, could really do with other peoples opinions on this - not sure if Im being over dramatic etc!....

I have two boys before school in a morning and drop them off at school everyday, they go to after school club afterwards as its easier for mum to collect from there.

Anyway, a while ago I was chatting to mum about some days when after school club were closed. She told me that the lady that helped out at the club had offered to collect them from school and have them til mum got home as "a favour".

Today mum comes and tells me that she is leaving the car seats here tomorrow as there is no after school club so X (lady in question) has offered to collect them from school and take them home til mum finishes work. The boys then went on to tell me about all the things that X has at her house so it sounds like theyve been quite frequently.

Just to double back- the first time mum mentioned this to me she did say that she wasnt any sort of registered childcare but she wasnt bothered about that - she just liked having children in the house - and mum went on to say that if you are giving someone a tenner here and there then wheres the harm......

So my questions are this...........

1. I am right to think that this isnt fair to childminders and officially registered childcare providers who spend alot of time, money, effort etc on keeping up their registration.

2. Should I do/say anything about it to anyone

I just cant help thinking that if she, unofficially, is collecting a few children from school a few days a week then I (maybe not me personally - but local minders generally) are missing out on potential customers xxx

**mama2three** · 29-11-2011, 08:23 AM

Morning hun , thought you had finished? Or am I getting my wires crossed again? Must be the beechams!

Definately wrong - and she will know this too as a member of staff at the breakfast club. I would usually be shouting ' report it' - but have read of lots of instances where Ofsted do absolutely nothing apart from 'advising them to register'. So frustrating.

**rickysmiths** · 29-11-2011, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by mama2three

Morning hun , thought you had finished? Or am I getting my wires crossed again? Must be the beechams!

Definately wrong - and she will know this too as a member of staff at the breakfast club. I would usually be shouting ' report it' - but have read of lots of instances where Ofsted do absolutely nothing apart from 'advising them to register'. So frustrating.

Her employers might not like it though. What puzzles me is is the after school club really closed as often as you seem to be saying? I can't think the school would be impressed with this and if it is why is it?

Or does this helpful person just not work at the after school club every evening and has decided to to earn a bit extra on the side?

Several things come to mind:

Is she insured to carry children in her car for who she has been paid to care for? I doubt it therefore she is uninsured. I would be telling the parent this.

How long are the children with her? If it is more than two hours she has a problem and again would not be insured.

Does her House and Contents insurance company know what she is doing because if not again she will not be covered.

Does she have First Aid Training? If not what would she do if there was an accident?

Personally I would not take the children's car seats and store them for the day I don't have the room. Let the parent deliver them to her helpful carer to store for the day! What if all the parents asked for this?

For this reason i don't take in buggies unless they are small umbrella fold ones that I can tuck in my cloakroom out of the way.

I would be tempted to do a short list of the things like insurance and First Aid and of course that Tax Credits should not be used to pay an unregistered person and give it to the parent.

I would just say you are concerned that maybe she doesn't realise the full implications of using an unregistered carer and you felt she should though of course it is her choice at the end of the day.

Also say you can not keep the car seats and she will have to make other arrangements. I don't understand this bit does this woman collect the car seats from you before she collects the boys? Do you know her name?

If she is doing it on days when she isn't working but the club is open then I would definitely tell the manager. She will probably have a clause in her Contract preventing her from taking clients from the club and this would also cover the club because it would prevent her or the parents using her for something like six months after she left their employment. This is to protect the club from a member of staff leaving, setting up on their own and taking all the clubs clients. Nurseries will have this in their contracts as well.

**Newbie1!** · 29-11-2011, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by mama2three

Morning hun , thought you had finished? Or am I getting my wires crossed again? Must be the beechams!

Definately wrong - and she will know this too as a member of staff at the breakfast club. I would usually be shouting ' report it' - but have read of lots of instances where Ofsted do absolutely nothing apart from 'advising them to register'. So frustrating.

I sort of had Kath - so dont worry your not going totally crazy!!! Very long story....!!!! xxx

**Newbie1!** · 29-11-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

Her employers might not like it though. What puzzles me is is the after school club really closed as often as you seem to be saying? I can't think the school would be impressed with this and if it is why is it?

Or does this helpful person just not work at the after school club every evening and has decided to to earn a bit extra on the side?

Several things come to mind:

Is she insured to carry children in her car for who she has been paid to care for? I doubt it therefore she is uninsured. I would be telling the parent this.

How long are the children with her? If it is more than two hours she has a problem and again would not be insured.

Does her House and Contents insurance company know what she is doing because if not again she will not be covered.

Does she have First Aid Training? If not what would she do if there was an accident?

Personally I would not take the children's car seats and store them for the day I don't have the room. Let the parent deliver them to her helpful carer to store for the day! What if all the parents asked for this?

For this reason i don't take in buggies unless they are small umbrella fold ones that I can tuck in my cloakroom out of the way.

I would be tempted to do a short list of the things like insurance and First Aid and of course that Tax Credits should not be used to pay an unregistered person and give it to the parent.

I would just say you are concerned that maybe she doesn't realise the full implications of using an unregistered carer and you felt she should though of course it is her choice at the end of the day.

Also say you can not keep the car seats and she will have to make other arrangements. I don't understand this bit does this woman collect the car seats from you before she collects the boys? Do you know her name?

If she is doing it on days when she isn't working but the club is open then I would definitely tell the manager. She will probably have a clause in her Contract preventing her from taking clients from the club and this would also cover the club because it would prevent her or the parents using her for something like six months after she left their employment. This is to protect the club from a member of staff leaving, setting up on their own and taking all the clubs clients. Nurseries will have this in their contracts as well.

Thanks RickySmiths, from what I can figure out said lady doesnt work everyday but one of the main reasons there are alot of occurences is that after school is held at another school which seems to be closed a lot more than the school that the boys go to, they have lots of outbreaks of contageous diseases, strikes etc so just seem to close more frequently and so after school club cant run there.

Mum knows all about the dos and donts as she has worked in childcare herself for years, but just says she doesnt mind as its nice of her to offer as she knows shes a bit skint at the moment!!

(she doesnt charge anything like what I do I dont think)

Its just been particularly frustrating this time as she had asked me to have them because of the strike thing but then this lady has jumped in and said she'll have them instead - the other times have been when I couldnt do it or covering when I was on holiday but when shes actually asked me but then tells me that someone else is now doing it it gets a bit frustrating...

xx

**candy cat** · 29-11-2011, 09:29 AM

If she is taking them home to their house then there isn't an issue as it's in their own house......regarding car journey this lady isn't running a business so the children are third parties and would be covered anyway. They could argue its a friend doing a favour etc......can understand why you are peeved though x

**rickysmiths** · 29-11-2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Tabitha Twitchit

If she is taking them home to their house then there isn't an issue as it's in their own house......regarding car journey this lady isn't running a business so the children are third parties and would be covered anyway. They could argue its a friend doing a favour etc......can understand why you are peeved though x

Not if she is being paid for it and it is over two hours anyway. The min she is paid even a bunch of flowers she is running a business and she id a very foolish person to put herself in this position but even worse to put the children in potential danger. Isn't most of our work about keeping the children in our care safe?

I think she is doing this in her home not the children's home. The children have told the cm all the things this woman has at her house.

**Newbie1!** · 29-11-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tabitha Twitchit

If she is taking them home to their house then there isn't an issue as it's in their own house......regarding car journey this lady isn't running a business so the children are third parties and would be covered anyway. They could argue its a friend doing a favour etc......can understand why you are peeved though x

No she takes them to her own house hun and has bought an xbox etc to keep the children entertained when she does this. Like you say, nothing will come of it, mum will claim she isnt paying etc anyway, but its just so frustrating knowing what we have to go through for our registration, legislation, insurances etc etc that someone can just come along and do as they please

xx

**rickysmiths** · 29-11-2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Newbie1!

Thanks RickySmiths, from what I can figure out said lady doesnt work everyday but one of the main reasons there are alot of occurences is that after school is held at another school which seems to be closed a lot more than the school that the boys go to, they have lots of outbreaks of contageous diseases, strikes etc so just seem to close more frequently and so after school club cant run there.

Mum knows all about the dos and donts as she has worked in childcare herself for years, but just says she doesnt mind as its nice of her to offer as she knows shes a bit skint at the moment!!

(she doesnt charge anything like what I do I dont think)

Its just been particularly frustrating this time as she had asked me to have them because of the strike thing but then this lady has jumped in and said she'll have them instead - the other times have been when I couldnt do it or covering when I was on holiday but when shes actually asked me but then tells me that someone else is now doing it it gets a bit frustrating...

xx

If she booked the time with you she should pay for it. If she has changed her mind is not your concern you may have turned away other business.

The school who host the after school club sounds a bit dodgy to me.!! There has been one strike this year which closed many schools but that was the first one for years and years. If a school has lots of outbreaks of contageous
disease that is causing them to close that frequently is a cause for concern. I have never heard of this before very odd. Sounds as if the school has major public health and hygiene problems to me.

**candy cat** · 29-11-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

Not if she is being paid for it and it is over two hours anyway. The min she is paid even a bunch of flowers she is running a business and she id a very foolish person to put herself in this position but even worse to put the children in potential danger. Isn't most of our work about keeping the children in our care safe?

I think she is doing this in her home not the children's home. The children have told the cm all the things this woman has at her house.

Didn't say I agreed just pointing out that at the end of the day the children are the parents responsibility and as much as we can share our opinion,its mums choice

however, I would make it clear that I would not have any part of it and wouldn't have carseats etc

**wendywu** · 29-11-2011, 10:00 AM

I would not keep the car seats and i would let mum know that you expect to be paid if she asked you to have them.

I would also mention it to the after school club. Doubt if they would be to impressed with one of their staff breaking the law with some of their attendees.