Feel like a failure....sorry a bit long

[nikjam]

I don't know if any of you lovely people have ever dealt with anything like this but here goes...

I have been looking after a child since he was 1 he's now nearly 4. He started with his sister and all was well, happy chatty and involved totally with everything that went on here activity wise and witht he other children (mine included).


Since his sister went to school it's been all change, he has started pre school in the mornings 3 of the 4 I have him, I pick him and my son up at 1 and then we head out at 2.30 to get my other son.

He became very withdrawn, quite often not speaking to me (no matter how much I tried). Mum reckoned this was punishment for his being here and I got the raw end. I have managed to overcome this and we were getting along great.
Then we had the Easter break and it feels like i'm back at square one except he now seems to be using sleep to escape his feelings both here and at nursery....he will fall asleep whilst playing, eating and on the toilet!!! I have to constantly say his name to wake him. I have spoken to mum and she says he sleeps fine at home although wakes and gets in with them but goes straight back to sleep,she quite often has to wake him to bring him here for 8. Nursery are convinced he's not getting the sleep he requires and that's the end of it but I can't help thinking he's using it to escape his situation.
I feel like an utter failure as nothing I do engages him, he's sullen and can be very rude but is this because he's just so tired.
I don't get that much time with him anymore as I take him to nursery and pick him up at 1, we have lunch and then it's time to pick my son up.
As we get home mum is here to pick him up. I only have him Tuesday mornings now, this week he refused to do anything with me....I had set up an activity which he didn't want to do so I asked him what he did want and he said 'nothing I just want to play' so I sat and got the dinosaurs out and the knights that I know he likes.....he turned his back on me!! What do I do? I feel so sorry for him as I know all he wants is to be at home but it's not an option....he's the same at groups...will just sit there.
Nursery have described him as 'stagnant' which is harsh.
I don't know where to go with this little one anymore, I have a baby starting in June so would appreciate any advice you can offer.
Sorry for the long post.....it took a while for me to admit that I'm not going to sort this without help....

[Pipsqueak]

I would be quite concerned that this child is apparently going off to sleep at rather random and at will times.

Is he definately sleeping or pretending. If he is defo sleeping, coupled with a change in attitude then I would be encouraging the parent to seek further advice as that - to me- is not 'normal' that a young child will just drop of to sleep. Particuarly if you think he is getting enough sleep.

If it is 'nothing' and he is managing somehow to sleep at will several times during the day then this little boy is not coping well at all with his change in routine and is desperately unhappy. Don't take it personally, you are not a failure at all, you sound wonderful in trying to support this family.

Does this child HAVE to go to nursery... this seems like the whole crux of the problems.

[nikjam]

Hi Pipsqueak,

Thanks for the reply, he is definately properly asleep, it really upsets me that he could be so unhappy that he just switches off. Mum is at times very cagey (sp) and I think bedtime is an issue but he does sleep so she says.
The nursery he goes to with my son is very small only 12 children at most and they believe in child led interaction...which is fine for my very social outgoing little fella but I don't know if this child is best suited to this environment tbh.
He has also taken to pushing his hands into his stomach which makes him gag....I have sent him home with v&d before, so he's very clever in thinking 'if I'm sick I go home'.....
Mum sees it all as calculated and he just wants to be with her and he just has to get on with it! Not really helpful...

Nikki

[JCrakers]

Speak to Mum again and explain that he is very tired...If I was Mum I would get him checked out if she says he is getting enough sleep in the night. Tell her you are concerned about his behaviour change.

It could be sometihing underlying - anemia or diabetes??
or just the fact that he misses his sister or isnt very good at adapting to new situations.
Was he very close with his sister?

I really wouldnt put yourself down as its nothing you have done Sounds hard though especially as you have had him a while

Edited to ask...Mum and Dad havent split have they? Sounds like he's very eager to get home

[The Juggler]

If he is def. asleep hon then I agree with Pip, I would be seeking medical advice. If he was using sleep to avoid doing activities/speaking with you a child of this age would only be able to pretend. Most young children can't sleep at will (in fact most avoid it even when they are tired ). It is highly unusual and a VERY tired child that will fall asleep on the toilet.

I would suggest to mum to seek advice from her HV and suggest that she takes him out of nursery for a while as it seems to be this change that has triggered his tiredness. I am sure his change in temperament is all to do with how tired he is or whatever underlying condition is causing this tiredness.

[Pipsqueak]

Hi Pipsqueak,

Thanks for the reply, he is definately properly asleep, it really upsets me that he could be so unhappy that he just switches off. Mum is at times very cagey (sp) and I think bedtime is an issue but he does sleep so she says.
The nursery he goes to with my son is very small only 12 children at most and they believe in child led interaction...which is fine for my very social outgoing little fella but I don't know if this child is best suited to this environment tbh.
He has also taken to pushing his hands into his stomach which makes him gag....I have sent him home with v&d before, so he's very clever in thinking 'if I'm sick I go home'.....
Mum sees it all as calculated and he just wants to be with her and he just has to get on with it! Not really helpful...

Nikki

First bolded bit... this speaks volumes - mum being cagey. Of course we can only go by what the parent(s) tell us however I would be URGING mum to seek futher advice. I would tell her you are becoming concerned that there is an underlying problem causing his tiredness and sleeping. And I would be noting these incidents down.

The second bolded bit - this is again concerning in itself - he is almost 'self harming' and again an indictor that he is very unhappy.
This sounds like this goes beyond your expertise and that him and mum need some help.
I would be noting down these incidents too.

Even if it is calculated then he is a little boy in distress.

I think for your part you need to give him lots of routine and reasurrance.
I think you perhaps need to fight his corner as best as possible with the parent. I think you need to remain professional - recording your concerns, incidents and suggestions to mum.

[nikjam]

Thanks guys, it's so good to have some support, I'm not good at asking for help ever but am glad I have.
I will talk to her later about getting a doc/hv appointment and will ask her to do a daily diary again for home....that way I have a better clue of what goes on.
Having said all this he managed to stay awake today at nursery and his wide awake filling his face as we speak!!! Mum did talk to him last night apparently and has spoken to nursery via email last night I've just been told, so it looks like she may be working with us on this - whoo hooo!
He is very bright and yes he has a good relationship with his sister but I think has struggled with no play leader apart from me!
I have logged all of the incidents and made sure mum is aware, so as pip says all I can do is reassure and reassess as required!
Thanks again ladies xx

[Blaze]

I believe this LO is highly stressed perhaps even depressed. It most definately sounds like he is using sleep as a coping mechanism (something I have done since a young child). I think perhaps he may use the tummy pushing thing as a coping mechanism too - a bit like older children who self harm for the "RELIEF" it gives them. I would def be urging medical advice / assessment & be keeping a log of all this...Poor chap!

HTH

[kindredspirits]

i have a mindee who is also very withdrawn - he is 2 and only comes 1 day a week. Going back about 6 months every day he would come in in the morning and ask to go to sleep at about 9am. He would sleep for an hour and then he'd wake - if i went in and went to get him up he'd shout at me 'no its night nights i'm sleeping' even though he was clearly awake. He still hates being here and being around other children, he drags toys into the corner of the room and refuses to interact with anyone. I have on occassion had him more than 1 day a week and the second day he's been a different child, happy lively and interacting. could mum perhaps send him to you for longer instead of preschool?

this child came on tuesday and screamed his head off coming in to the point of hyperventilation and barely spoke to anyone all day despite having a great vocab. for his age. i had him again today as mum had to work - he came in crying, but stopped straight away and played really well with everyone, he was chatty and happy and even followed me when i put a baby to bed and played 'boo' round the door frame. i have told parents countless times that he really needs to be here more than 1 day a week but it goes in one ear and out the other.

[nikjam]

Update....

I spoke to her on pick up about it again and she's adamant that he's never like this at home so it's a calculated tactic for coping here and at nursery, she doesn't believe there's anything wrong.
He's here for lunch everyday, today was so different to the last few weeks so I'm hoping she broke through when she spoke to him last night.
Time will tell I suppose....thanks again for all the advice it was much needed