Certificate question - rising 5 again!

**Mouse** · 15-09-2009, 01:32 PM

How many questions have there been on this...and here I am with another

I've just had a look at my certificate and realised it doesn't say what I thought it said (despite the fact I walk past it many times every day!)

I thought I had the sentence about 4 year olds counting as rising 5's when they're in school for 10 sessions a week, but I haven't!

It says I can have 6 under 8's, no more that 3 in EY group, not more than 1 under 1 etc.

I now have 1x 4yr old in full-time school, 1x 3 year old & 1x 10 month old, so all within numbers as it reads on my certificate. But if I wanted to take on another pre-schooler or another reception age before & after school, I assume I would have to get my certificate changed to say about pre-rising 5s?

Would I do it on the Ofsted variation form & what would I ask for?

Thank you

**charliegee** · 15-09-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

How many questions have there been on this...and here I am with another

I've just had a look at my certificate and realised it doesn't say what I thought it said (despite the fact I walk past it many times every day!)

I thought I had the sentence about 4 year olds counting as rising 5's when they're in school for 10 sessions a week, but I haven't!

It says I can have 6 under 8's, no more that 3 in EY group, not more than 1 under 1 etc.

I now have 1x 4yr old in full-time school, 1x 3 year old & 1x 10 month old, so all within numbers as it reads on my certificate. But if I wanted to take on another pre-schooler or another reception age before & after school, I assume I would have to get my certificate changed to say about pre-rising 5s?

Would I do it on the Ofsted variation form & what would I ask for?

Thank you

haha yes, must be the day for rising 5 questions...I've just posted one too!

mine says when caring for 4-5 year olds....may increase the number children in the early years group provided the maximum is not exceeded"

so I take that to mean I add them into my over 5's so...

if I'm allowed 5 children of which no more than 2 in early years group...

For pure example, if I had one 2 year old and one 4 year old in full time eduation then I would say I had one vacancy left for a child under 4 / not in full time education and 2 vacancys for children over 4 / in full time education

...so 5 kids in total?

perhaps someone with more experience will be able to help but does your certificate say something along those lines? does it mention children in full time education at all?

x

Pipsqueak · 15-09-2009, 01:51 PM

when I spoke to a nice Ofsted receptionist the other day and confused the heck out of him - he stated that:

'rising 5 is optional' as to whether you use it or not - your certificate does not have to reflect this (am awaiting email/written confirmation of this though).

according to them I can drop a 'rising 5' in and out of which ever age group according to how I need my numbers to work - so my own son James who is a rising 5 I can either put him into my 5-8 group or keep him in the under 5's group.
understand that ??????

I just pray and hope this bloke is right otherwise my numbers are going to be totally illegal when I sign some more children.

Because no-one not even Ofsted understand the rising 5 thing (and thats out of their own mouths) your best bet is to email them and get a written answer.

**Mouse** · 15-09-2009, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

'rising 5 is optional' as to whether you use it or not - your certificate does not have to reflect this (am awaiting email/written confirmation of this though).

according to them I can drop a 'rising 5' in and out of which ever age group according to how I need my numbers to work - so my own son James who is a rising 5 I can either put him into my 5-8 group or keep him in the under 5's group.
understand that ??????

.

Yes, I get that bit (unusual to understand something that Ofsted says!) At the moment my mindee in reception could count as a 4yr old, which she is, or a pre-rising 5 depending on which other children I have.
Nice of Ofsted to be flexible for once!!

I think I'll just ask them to add the paragraph about being able to count a 4 yr old as a 5 if they're in full time education. That way I'll be covered...I think!!

**margimum** · 15-09-2009, 02:07 PM

I'm going to confuse us all even more now!

Your certificate does not mention your own children, so if you have your own 4 year old your certificate will say can mind 2 in ey and (up to) 3 aged 5-8.
When your own lo is at full time school you cannot automatically swap your certificate round to 3 in ey and 2 from 5-8.
You have to apply to ofsted to do this.
With mindees though,as long as you are within your total numbers, swapping them is ok.

**Mouse** · 15-09-2009, 02:56 PM

Luckily mine are all over 8. That's one less complication

**grindal** · 15-09-2009, 03:12 PM

I'm really hoping this will all be a bit clearer to me next Sept when DS1 will be starting school. I am still trying to work out why DS1 and 2 still contribute to my numbers when i do not need to keep any documentation for them and they do not need to be signed in and out of my setting daily

Pipsqueak · 15-09-2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by grindal

I'm really hoping this will all be a bit clearer to me next Sept when DS1 will be starting school. I am still trying to work out why DS1 and 2 still contribute to my numbers when i do not need to keep any documentation for them and they do not need to be signed in and out of my setting daily

its to do with the ratios of how many a person can look after at any one time - what Ofsted think we are safely capable of!

**The Juggler** · 15-09-2009, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

when I spoke to a nice Ofsted receptionist the other day and confused the heck out of him - he stated that:

'rising 5 is optional' as to whether you use it or not - your certificate does not have to reflect this (am awaiting email/written confirmation of this though).

according to them I can drop a 'rising 5' in and out of which ever age group according to how I need my numbers to work - so my own son James who is a rising 5 I can either put him into my 5-8 group or keep him in the under 5's group.
understand that ??????

I just pray and hope this bloke is right otherwise my numbers are going to be totally illegal when I sign some more children.

Because no-one not even Ofsted understand the rising 5 thing (and thats out of their own mouths) your best bet is to email them and get a written answer.

I'm doing same as you. My school starter only turned 4 a few weeks ago but I'm counting him as a 5 now! They can throw us in jail together