4 year old

**Kes** · 18-07-2009, 01:07 PM

I have had an enquiry for a before school place in september for a 4 year old. They will be at school full time. At the moment I don't have any spaces for an over 5 but one should be coming up as one is due to move away but their not sure if that will be in september or a bit later. Usually the 4 year old would be classed as a rising 5 so would I need a variation or could I keep them in the under 5's ratio?

Kerry.

**Jules27** · 18-07-2009, 01:12 PM

If I understand correctly you have a space for an under 5? If thats the case you will be ok as long as you are not exceeding the number of under 8's you are allowed?

**Kes** · 18-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Thanks thats what I thought but wanted to make sure. I know usually its trying to make room for under fives but its the over fives that I'm getting the most of at the moment. Might have something to do with the local school putting there before and after school club fees up from £3 to £4 an hour.

Kerry.

**sarah707** · 18-07-2009, 02:15 PM

I might be confused but this is the Law according to the Eyfs...

Once a child goes into 10 sessions a week full time school, it doesn't matter what their birth age is...

They are classed as over 5 for your ratios.

So if the child is at school full time, you need a space in your under 8s...

The space cannot come from your under 5s as the child is now classed as over 5, so the space must come from your 5 - 8 ratio... so 3 under 5, 3 between 5 and 8.

Does that make sense?

**newandlearning** · 18-07-2009, 02:21 PM

hi .. I'm with Sarah on that one.. the LO I look after was 4years old and in fulltime ed.. so hence counted as over 5 for ratios yet was still part of EYFS for
planning and obs.x

**sonia ann** · 18-07-2009, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jules27

If I understand correctly you have a space for an under 5? If thats the case you will be ok as long as you are not exceeding the number of under 8's you are allowed?

I agree with this....
The maximum no. of children you can have is 6 under 8yrs.The rules state that of these no more than 3 can be under 5yrs.You can choose to have 6 over 5's if you want and no under 5's it's up to you.....

**margimum** · 18-07-2009, 03:28 PM

It's my understanding that NO MORE than 3 can be UNDER 5 but if you choose to have fewer, then you can have more 5 - 8's. As long as you stay within 6. Otherwise we'd have to get rid of children we already mind when they reach school age!

**Daftbat** · 18-07-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by sonia ann

I agree with this....
The maximum no. of children you can have is 6 under 8yrs.The rules state that of these no more than 3 can be under 5yrs.You can choose to have 6 over 5's if you want and no under 5's it's up to you.....

Yep, this is how it works.

**cs01** · 18-07-2009, 04:10 PM

I have managed to confuse myself now! I look after 3 under 5's - 1 of whom is my own child. I had an enquiry for afterschool care for a child starting reception, who was 4 years old. I turned it down as I thought they would be classified as under 5. My certificate states that I can only care for 2 within the early years group and that covers children until 31st Aug following their 5th b'day. So am I correct in thinking I was right to turn the child down?

Daddy Day Care · 18-07-2009, 04:22 PM

I may be wrong only newly registered but the way I understood it was that you would still have to do the eyfs with the child untill 31st aug after there 5th birthday, but as they were at full time school they wudn't be in your under 5 numbers so you could have took the child on

**MissTinkerbell** · 18-07-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by cs01

I have managed to confuse myself now! I look after 3 under 5's - 1 of whom is my own child. I had an enquiry for afterschool care for a child starting reception, who was 4 years old. I turned it down as I thought they would be classified as under 5. My certificate states that I can only care for 2 within the early years group and that covers children until 31st Aug following their 5th b'day. So am I correct in thinking I was right to turn the child down?

No you can have that child but you have to apply for a variation until they attend school full time, even though they are 4. I've only got 1 space in the Early Years group (have twin 3 year olds)but have a variation from 8th-17th September for a 4 year old to allow me to have 4 under 5s.

It also states on my cert. that once she is in full-time school I can class any 4/5 year old in early years group as an over 5 in terms of my ratios.

Hope that makes sense.

**sarah707** · 18-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Daddy Day Care

I may be wrong only newly registered but the way I understood it was that you would still have to do the eyfs with the child untill 31st aug after there 5th birthday, but as they were at full time school they wudn't be in your under 5 numbers so you could have took the child on

Yes that's right.

It depends on whether you have spaces as well though.

If you are full with 3 under 5, that's fine... the child at FULL TIME school goes into your over 5s ratio.