Is pushchair sleeping a problem?

**acorns** · 26-01-2009, 01:36 PM

I have a 7 month old who has never slept in a cot (sleeps in parents bed all the time

). The only place he sleeps at mine is either rocked off to sleep in my arms which I don't do often as he is over 10kg or put in the pushchair, laid right back and either taken in the garden, wrapped up of course, or placed next to the dishwasher. He sleeps for 2 - 3 hours in the pushchair His Mum is happy with him sleeping wherever he will sleep, I'm happy as long as he is & if he's gone to sleep in the garden I bring him in when asleep and unwrap him as much as I can without too much disturbance.

I know Ofsted prefer them to sleep in a cot but he doesn't, I think it's between me, him and his Mum where he sleeps. My network co ordinator seem to think I should get him sleeping in a cot, but he doesn't at home and cries the minute I hover him over the cot!! It's seems unneccessary upset to use the cot when it's working well for us at the moment

**Pudding Girl** · 26-01-2009, 01:38 PM

My 10mo sleeps in the pram, I have a travel cot but he will not settle in it - although he'll have to sooner or later as won't fit in the pram any more!!

I think as long as it's whats best for the baby and you and Mum are happy, I'd suggest that Ofsted go swing

Maybe get a permission slip done just in case?

**sarah707** · 26-01-2009, 02:22 PM

The problem with children sleeping in car seats / pushchairs etc is that if they are sitting upright, their lungs constrict and they cannot breathe properly. It can cause severe respiratory problems. That is why inspectors are against it.

Here is an American study. there are others too

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/71/6/497

Lack of supervision is also considered an issue, so show how you monitor baby while sleeping in the pushchair.

However, if you have a risk assessment in place showing that you understand the risks and always lay him flat... plus you have a signature from parents saying that's their preference, then you're covered.

Hth

**rickysmiths** · 26-01-2009, 02:38 PM

I had an 8mth old start with me last April. Also only sleeps in mum and dads bed , mum told me he would only fall asleep in my arms!!!!! I explained to her that with 2 or 3 other children in my care and could not do that all the time.

I told her I would sleep him in the buggy in the same room as me and see how we go, she was more than happy with this. For the first week I had to rock him to sleep and then put him in the garden the other side of the glass doors so I could see him all the time. Then he fell asleep on his own.

Now I am firm believer in cot sleeping in their own rooms (Ihave a 5mth, The now 15mth and a 3yr old all asleep upstairs at the moment).

The baby took 2 weeks with me and then he was in a cot. I took some photos to show mum because she couldnt believe it. He sleeps for at least 11/2hrs and usually 2hrs! No problem at all it is part of his routine with me and my expectation of him.

It must be said though, at home he is still in bed with mum and dad!!!

**marion123** · 26-01-2009, 06:25 PM

my 10 months old sleeps in pram wont sleep in cot so mum told me to let him i go a letter from her and signed when ofsted came last yr they were fine with the letter

**Twinkles** · 26-01-2009, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

The problem with children sleeping in car seats / pushchairs etc is that if they are sitting upright, their lungs constrict and they cannot breathe properly. It can cause severe respiratory problems. That is why inspectors are against it.

Here is an American study. there are others too

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/71/6/497

Lack of supervision is also considered an issue, so show how you monitor baby while sleeping in the pushchair.

However, if you have a risk assessment in place showing that you understand the risks and always lay him flat... plus you have a signature from parents saying that's their preference, then you're covered.

Hth

OMG Sarah , scary reading

I remember a few years ago i had a very prem foster baby who caught a cold and was finding breathing a bit of a struggle. At the suggestion of the GP I slept him in his car seat to help him breathe easier

That article just made my blood run cold.

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 26-01-2009, 06:57 PM

My health visitor told me to put my son in a pushchair years ago. All my mindees go out now too, wrapped up warm and covered in case of rain. The fresh air is good for them but they are laid flat.

**Lincsminder** · 26-01-2009, 07:32 PM

Hey there is nothing wrong with babies sleeping with their parents, mine have all slept with me until they were big enough to go into their own beds at about 2+. They also have been able to sleep anywhere during the day they napped on the sette, floor, beanbag or pram.

**childmind04** · 26-01-2009, 08:54 PM

I just do not have room for a cot and have always explained to ofsted where they sleep, my phil and ted lies totally flat anyway so not so much a problem but one of my mindees always falls asleep on way home and his mums pram does not lie flat

May pass this onto her!!!

**sarah707** · 26-01-2009, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Lincsminder

Hey there is nothing wrong with babies sleeping with their parents, mine have all slept with me until they were big enough to go into their own beds at about 2+. They also have been able to sleep anywhere during the day they napped on the sette, floor, beanbag or pram.

I totally agree you can do exactly what you want with your own children.

With other people's children we must follow health and safety advice...

Sofas are a no no because of the risk of children getting stuck in cushions and not being able to breathe... same with beanbags.

Prams are fine if their backs are supported - and so are buggies, again if they are properly supported but only with written permission from parents.

Putting them on beds is absolutely no no because of the risk of rolling.

The Eyfs also states that they must have clean bedding, so the carpet is out. It must be a mattress with a sheet, individually cleaned for the child. If the child has allergies take advice from parents before using washing powder etc.

Hope this clarifies

**rickysmiths** · 26-01-2009, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

I totally agree you can do exactly what you want with your own children.

With other people's children we must follow health and safety advice...

Sofas are a no no because of the risk of children getting stuck in cushions and not being able to breathe... same with beanbags.

Prams are fine if their backs are supported - and so are buggies, again if they are properly supported but only with written permission from parents.

Putting them on beds is absolutely no no because of the risk of rolling.

The Eyfs also states that they must have clean bedding, so the carpet is out. It must be a mattress with a sheet, individually cleaned for the child. If the child has allergies take advice from parents before using washing powder etc.

Hope this clarifies

I dont understand the rolling on beds bit? I dont use a bed now but when I lived in a flat I did. It had a proper fittng mattress, clean sheets and a bed guard and I had a two year old who slept well and soundly.

Both my own children were in adult size single beds by the time they were 20 and 22mths, we couldnt afford to buy multiple beds in various sizes!!! They never looked back, they were warm and cosy and were guarded from falling out. My daughter was in a top bunk just short of her 4th birthday. We had no choice, we didnt have room for two single beds so they had to share a bunk bed.

When Ofsted inspected me last Jan they registered all 4 bedrooms in my house and were happy for the spare room bed to be used for the correct age child. All the children have a seperate set of sheets blankets and towels that they use.

**sarah707** · 26-01-2009, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

When Ofsted inspected me last Jan they registered all 4 bedrooms in my house and were happy for the spare room bed to be used for the correct age child. .

We have to be really careful that the advice we give is generic to lots of different childminders in different situations who have Ofsted inspectors with their own agendas.

I agree with you, using a bed guard and for the correct age child, putting a child in a bed with clean bedding, provided for their individual use, is not a problem.

However, if we give blanket advice that children can be put into beds you can guarantee someone somewhere will put a baby or small child in a bed, the baby or small child will choose that day to learn to shuffle downwards and there is potential for him to get trapped in the bedding.

Or the baby or small child will shuffle past the bed guard and roll out... or someone will pop a baby or small child in the middle of their double bed, just for a moment while they go to the loo and they will roll off.

Using beds for babies and small children is not following good practice advice - page 21 of the Eyfs says...

3.34 Providers should take into account Department of Health advice on reducing the risk of cot death which is available at: www.dh.gov.uk

That advice is here -

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publications...nce/DH_4123625

And it clearly says to guard against cot death, babies and small children must be put to sleep with feet at the bottom... which is very difficult to do in a bed.

Do you see the problem?

**acorns** · 26-01-2009, 10:02 PM

OMG - I'm really scared now after reading that. Problem is though that with all the crying he'll make about the cot my own dd will not be able to sleep. I've already tried it. It's seems that as long as they are sleeping flat and not semi/fully upright & harness is adjusted correctly the position is ok. I think i'll do a risk assessment and get parental permission to cover it - thanks everyone

**berkschick** · 26-01-2009, 10:22 PM

Can you transfer him to the cot once asleep?

This is what I had to do with one of my mindees and now she is the best sleeper I have!

I had to rock her to sleep in the buggy. Then I used to transfer her to the travel cot. Then I used to almost rock her to sleep and transfer her and now I just chuck her in (not literally!) give her her comforter and shut the door. 2 hours later she wakes up!

**acorns** · 26-01-2009, 10:46 PM

On the rare occasion when I have got him in the cot (after ages settling, lots of crying) , he only sleeps for an hour and wakes up really irritable but wont go back to sleep. In the pushchair he'll go off quickly and sleeps for 2/3 hours at least and wakes up a happy bunny. So from his point of view I know where he'd rather be

**sarahstanbridge** · 26-01-2009, 10:52 PM

when i had my inspection last year, i let a child sleep in a buggy. it was put on my report as a action to get written signed permission from parents to allow child to sleep in a pram/buggy which i now do.

**Dragonfly** · 27-01-2009, 08:05 AM

I use a travel cot, laid back push chair and the sofa all were fine with ofsted.its common sense none of them are wrong.

**Lincsminder** · 27-01-2009, 05:38 PM

Sofas are a no no because of the risk of children getting stuck in cushions and not being able to breathe... same with beanbags.

Mine isnt that kind of sofa it is flat and is fine for a toddler to sleep on also my bean bags are half empty and I fold them under itself which makes it quite hard, they couldnt suffocate on it (bit hard to explain with out a picture) Also I would be with them as it is in the front room where I am

Putting them on beds is absolutely no no because of the risk of rolling.
Again fine for a toddler but not a young baby

The Eyfs also states that they must have clean bedding, so the carpet is out.
Again if a toddler fell asleep on the floor I prob wouldnt move them

**mushpea** · 27-01-2009, 07:08 PM

all of mine have slept in the buggy, we even go out for a 'fall asleep walk' with the dog in the afternoons, partly so the dog gets out and mainly so the youngsters sleep, they are laid flat with lots of bedding and are left to sleep in the garden in front of glass doors so i can see them. ofsted in my area (essex) was fine with this and even agreed that the fresh air was probably better for them!
as for the 3yrold (only have double buggy) if shes tired she crashes on the sofa whilst watching cbeebies

this is simply because when the other two are asleep she has quiet time with the tv whilst i write up the diarys. i then put a blanket over her again ofsted is fine with this in my area can't vouch for othrs though.

**berkschick** · 27-01-2009, 08:10 PM

When I had my inspection, my inspector was very hot on wanting the children in a cot with clean bedding.

This suits me fine as I prefer it this way too. They get a better sleep in my opinion but that could just be the kids I have at the moment.

I have 3 travel cots and all the kids use these with their own bedding etc.