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Nursery or CMinders fault?
On a nursery collection today, the little girl I look after went to play by a Wendy house by the entrance, she came back with blood on her hand, she had cut two fingers. When I went over to have a look where she had done it, behind the house is a playtable and on there was two large pieces of broken glass from a window higher up! Area was not closed off or any warning put up for parents either. When I saw the staff I informed them and they said they were aware and had bought the nursery kids in, I asked for an accident form and was told quite rudely that if I was making a claim then the school isn't liable. I said I just needed it for my records too. Apparently all non school children has to be in the careers or parent charge and not play with the toys! It wasn't a climbing frame or anything just a little Wendy house frame. surely the glass should have been removed and the area made safe or to have notified us about it. Where do I go from here. Have filled in all the accident forms etc, but the school are saying it was my fault. any advice anyone? Thanks
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Originally Posted by
CM59
On a nursery collection today, the little girl I look after went to play by a Wendy house by the entrance, she came back with blood on her hand, she had cut two fingers. When I went over to have a look where she had done it, behind the house is a playtable and on there was two large pieces of broken glass from a window higher up! Area was not closed off or any warning put up for parents either. When I saw the staff I informed them and they said they were aware and had bought the nursery kids in, I asked for an accident form and was told quite rudely that if I was making a claim then the school isn't liable. I said I just needed it for my records too. Apparently all non school children has to be in the careers or parent charge and not play with the toys! It wasn't a climbing frame or anything just a little Wendy house frame. surely the glass should have been removed and the area made safe or to have notified us about it. Where do I go from here. Have filled in all the accident forms etc, but the school are saying it was my fault. any advice anyone? Thanks
How is it your fault when the Wendy house is on their property and they knew about it but didn't make it safe? It sounds like they are trying to cover themselves. If you have filled in your accident form then I'm not sure what else you need to do, unless you wish to take this further with nursery.
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If she was a nursery child, in the nurserys care then it would have been the responsibility of the nursery. If she was a child visiting the nursery with a childminder and in the childminders care, then it would have been the responsibilty of the childminder. Whoever the child was in the care of should have visually checked the area they were allowing the child to play in for risks and hazards themselves. If the nursery had removed their charges from the area of the hazard, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
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Originally Posted by
singingcactus
If she was a nursery child, in the nurserys care then it would have been the responsibility of the nursery. If she was a child visiting the nursery with a childminder and in the childminders care, then it would have been the responsibilty of the childminder. Whoever the child was in the care of should have visually checked the area they were allowing the child to play in for risks and hazards themselves. If the nursery had removed their charges from the area of the hazard, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
In the main I agree with this , but there is still a public liability issue surely. If the nursery are aware of a 'risk' where members of the public have access they should surely remove it? If an adult slipped and fell on the glass for example. I do wholly agree though that the cm holds the responsibility for the child.
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Originally Posted by
singingcactus
If she was a nursery child, in the nurserys care then it would have been the responsibility of the nursery. If she was a child visiting the nursery with a childminder and in the childminders care, then it would have been the responsibilty of the childminder. Whoever the child was in the care of should have visually checked the area they were allowing the child to play in for risks and hazards themselves. If the nursery had removed their charges from the area of the hazard, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
Does the nursery not have a duty of care to inform anyone of the danger. If a visiting child could injure themselves then so could a child attending the nursery when they leave (albeit technically no longer in their care)
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Originally Posted by
singingcactus
If she was a nursery child, in the nurserys care then it would have been the responsibility of the nursery. If she was a child visiting the nursery with a childminder and in the childminders care, then it would have been the responsibilty of the childminder. Whoever the child was in the care of should have visually checked the area they were allowing the child to play in for risks and hazards themselves. If the nursery had removed their charges from the area of the hazard, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
I agree with this but either way, if they said they knew about the glass they should of removed it and thoroughly cleaned the area or at least had someone there to warn about the danger until someone came along and cleared it!
Last edited by karensmart4; 23-04-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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Without a doubt the glass should have been removed immediately, I mean, who in their right mind wouldn't?
But the question was about ultimate responsibilty of the injured child, not responsibilty of the hazard. As minders we cannot, or should not, assume that every other practitioner operates to our standards. We should check everything ourselves, no matter how tiresome.
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They know they were in the wrong. The glass should have been cleared up anyway and the area made safe or out of bounds. They are passing on the blame.
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If they had brought the nursery kids in because the area was unsafe , then how come your charge was allowed to go into that area , it should have been made clear that your charge was not to go there , by closing it off and putting a sign up
You arrived unaware of the danger and it was their responsibility to make visitors aware
It seems to me that they feel that once a parent or carer arrives they are no longer responsible for the welfare of the child , simply not true , and they should know that
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Originally Posted by
singingcactus
If she was a nursery child, in the nurserys care then it would have been the responsibility of the nursery. If she was a child visiting the nursery with a childminder and in the childminders care, then it would have been the responsibilty of the childminder. Whoever the child was in the care of should have visually checked the area they were allowing the child to play in for risks and hazards themselves. If the nursery had removed their charges from the area of the hazard, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
Thanks for the post. But surely the nursery should have made the area safe by putting a notice warning parents or cordoning the area off. They knew that parents with young children were arriving on the premises? If there was nothing to warn people of broken glass and it was a Wendy house frame that was there that the other little ones had played with earlier then it would be safe?
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Originally Posted by
phoenix2010
If they had brought the nursery kids in because the area was unsafe , then how come your charge was allowed to go into that area , it should have been made clear that your charge was not to go there , by closing it off and putting a sign up
You arrived unaware of the danger and it was their responsibility to make visitors aware
It seems to me that they feel that once a parent or carer arrives they are no longer responsible for the welfare of the child , simply not true , and they should know that
I disagree with this. I think it is absolutely the responsibility of the childminder or the parents collecting to ensure the safety of the children in their care and this includes keeping them by their side and not letting the run around or explore Nursery equipment. It drives me up the wall when this happens at Pre School, Nursery and School Pick up. There are children roaring around and the carers can not see them, don't take any notice and it is wrong. There is nothing wrong in them learning how to stand still and wait for a few minutes quietly.
Maybe the glass was left there so the maintenance people could see what had happened, the Nursery keep the children safe by removing them from the area. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nursery Manager asks for a copy of your Accident Report so they can keep it on the child's record so it shows they were not responsible for the accident.
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Originally Posted by
rickysmiths
I disagree with this. I think it is absolutely the responsibility of the childminder or the parents collecting to ensure the safety of the children in their care and this includes keeping them by their side and not letting the run around or explore Nursery equipment. It drives me up the wall when this happens at Pre School, Nursery and School Pick up. There are children roaring around and the carers can not see them, don't take any notice and it is wrong. There is nothing wrong in them learning how to stand still and wait for a few minutes quietly.
Maybe the glass was left there so the maintenance people could see what had happened, the Nursery keep the children safe by removing them from the area. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nursery Manager asks for a copy of your Accident Report so they can keep it on the child's record so it shows they were not responsible for the accident.
Thank you for your reply. There were no children running around. The little girl was on her own playing quietly opening the windows playing peep po. The fact remains that they had placed the house in front of the table with the glass on it and it was well hidden. I am not denying any responsibility at all, Im just stating that the nursery was aware of this and didn't clear it away or notify any of us. There are no signs to say that non school children shouldn't play on the toys etc either. she plays with this Wendy house frame every time we have to go there.
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Sorry, but it's the cm's responsibility to keep the child safe, and so I would have filled in my own accident form and copied it to the nursery for information. I'd have been pretty cross though as I do think that as they knew about it the nursery staff should have either cleared the glass away or put up a notice, but we have no idea of timeframes here, and it may have happened two minutes before home time. That is something for the nursery to reflect on. It sounds like their customer service needs improving too! How rude they sound!
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Originally Posted by
MessybutHappy
Sorry, but it's the cm's responsibility to keep the child safe, and so I would have filled in my own accident form and copied it to the nursery for information. I'd have been pretty cross though as I do think that as they knew about it the nursery staff should have either cleared the glass away or put up a notice, but we have no idea of timeframes here, and it may have happened two minutes before home time. That is something for the nursery to reflect on. It sounds like their customer service needs improving too! How rude they sound!
I have filled my own form in, two pages of it. but the form that I had received from the school is linked to the local council and they will have to investigate it. I wished that I had taken photos of the glass, but Chloe's well being was more important at the time. Yes she was very rude and when I asked if I needed her name she said definately not as she was not there when it happened!
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You need to phone your insurance company if you want a legal answer. I would have thought the nursery has a responsibility to protect any person who visits their premises, whether it is a child or adult. What if there was broken glass on the ground, nursery knew about it, but didn't move it, then an adult trod on it and was injured? The nursery would be responsible, not the adult who was unaware of the danger. I would guess that from a legal point of view the nursery could be held responsible for an injury to anyone on their premises.
But from a childminding point of view, we should risk assess every place we take children and shouldn't let them run off without checking it out. A nursery play area is not a communal playground, although many parents & carers seem to treat it like that when they're collecting other children.
It might be the case that the nursery & the cm are both deemed to be at fault.
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Originally Posted by
rickysmiths
I disagree with this. I think it is absolutely the responsibility of the childminder or the parents collecting to ensure the safety of the children in their care and this includes keeping them by their side and not letting the run around or explore Nursery equipment. It drives me up the wall when this happens at Pre School, Nursery and School Pick up. There are children roaring around and the carers can not see them, don't take any notice and it is wrong. There is nothing wrong in them learning how to stand still and wait for a few minutes quietly.
Maybe the glass was left there so the maintenance people could see what had happened, the Nursery keep the children safe by removing them from the area. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nursery Manager asks for a copy of your Accident Report so they can keep it on the child's record so it shows they were not responsible for the accident.
You are assuming that children were running amok and that this minder wasnt watching her mindee
the simple fact is , glass was left lying around and the area was accessible , so its the nurseries fault.
When I collect children from nursery , sometimes I chat with staff and children continue to play , I would not expect there to be glass lying around
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Nursery or CMinders fault?
I just wanted to mention that the little girl in question isn't with the nursery she was with me to pick up another child from nursery. sorry if there was any confusion. thank you.
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Originally Posted by
phoenix2010
You are assuming that children were running amok and that this minder wasnt watching her mindee
the simple fact is , glass was left lying around and the area was accessible , so its the nurseries fault.
When I collect children from nursery , sometimes I chat with staff and children continue to play , I would not expect there to be glass lying around
Thanks for your reply. The area that we were waiting is very small and the fact that no one could see the glass speaks for itself. I was quietly chatting to a friend and Chloe was in my sight all the time. As I said in my earlier post we were playing peep po though the window shutters.
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I can see both sides to this
It is fault with the cm has the child is in her care and as the teacher said she wasn't their when it happened so using her name is pointless??
But at same time school should of cleaned his up as soon as reported BUT you have stated the glass was on a table and the playhouse put infront of it?
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Originally Posted by
rickysmiths
I disagree with this. I think it is absolutely the responsibility of the childminder or the parents collecting to ensure the safety of the children in their care and this includes keeping them by their side and not letting the run around or explore Nursery equipment. It drives me up the wall when this happens at Pre School, Nursery and School Pick up. There are children roaring around and the carers can not see them, don't take any notice and it is wrong. There is nothing wrong in them learning how to stand still and wait for a few minutes quietly.
Maybe the glass was left there so the maintenance people could see what had happened, the Nursery keep the children safe by removing them from the area. I wouldn't be surprised if the Nursery Manager asks for a copy of your Accident Report so they can keep it on the child's record so it shows they were not responsible for the accident.
I try to consider the school run from the perspective of my mindees and look for opportunities to support and extend their learning. I feel if I made them stand by me, they are going to learn that the school run is very boring but not a lot else. Yes I let my mindees explore in the enclosed area, but that doesn't mean I am not watching them, they may pick up play equipment that is lying around, but once they have looked at it they are encouraged to put it back. They learn that they can explore, but have to do so within the boundaries I set (not going to far / not going by the windows to disrupt the children etc)
If the wendy house was in an area where it can be accessed by children, there should have at least been a sign up to warn parents or the area fenced off. I feel it is a pretty poor show for a nursery to only protect the children that are in their care at that time. I can just image parents responses if I left broken glass lying around in my front garden and turned round to them and said, sorry on the way in and out they are your responsiblity!
Cathy
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