sarah or penny please help

[mushpea]

I'm at a revised ETFs training an they have just said you can't decide yourself if you can have 4 under5s even if you risk asses it an even if its sibblings or continuity of care yet Sarah , as I understood it you suggested we can judge for ourselves if we can have r an not have to apply to ofsted so now I'm confused

[sarah707]

Some local authorities are making up their own rules - like Cheshire East say we have to get their permission first.

My document is the latest Ofsted guidance.

xx

[wendywu]

Surrey say its up to us to decide. I still don't understand how a LA can put their own spin on this.

So you take on 4 despite your LA saying you can't. Then what ! It's no good anyone complaining to Ofsted because as far as they are concerned it's ok with them . So what would happen in this case

[onceinabluemoon]

I went to eyfs training on Monday and they told me we had to tell ofsted we were having another child and show how we have risk assessed it and can manage etc and they can say no we can't have that child. Nothing has really changed except we do all the work now. My trainers also told me the certificates will read 6 under 8 with no other limitations on them... (Ofsted themselves told me days before it would say the same as it does now except there would be no '2 under one year' on it!). I am more confused now than before i went!

I honestly do not see how eyfs 2012 is less work for pre-school age children's carers, from what I have seen we still have to do everything we have been doing but now have to sort out variations and 2 year checks as well...

[blue bear]

That's crazy the lea are there to support us not tell us what we can and cannot do, there advice is just that not law.

Talki g to a d/o the other day, they will be monitoring the variation/risk assessment is not abused but are not expecting us to ask permission. From what she was saying monitoring is now their domain and I suppose some authorities are interpreting that how they wish.

From what I e read it was always the intention to send us certificates with no conditions on unless we are restricted due to house size. It will be up to us to apply the revised eyfs numbers as per the guidance.

[mushpea]

I showed them your document sarah and a few of the posts regarding this and they said that ofsted have not yet issued this and basicly they laughed at the idea that we dont have to apply to ofsted,, great , I tell them what you have written and they laugh at me, I wasnt impressed.
as far as they are concerned ofsted say we still have to apply to them in september and we cant just agree ourselves wether we take on extra children even if it is continuity of care.
what concerns me now is that people will take your word that we dont have to apply then iligaly have more children than they should.
I have to say Sarah that I respect you a lot and aprceitate that you can be very knowladgable and that you keep yourself very up todate , I love your docments you write and really appriciate the time you put in on this forum and the advice you give me so please dont get me wrong but I do think that facts need to be got straight and people need to understand that this might not actutaly happen,, because I belive that you are so up on these matters I had pretyped a letter to parents , not given it to them but typed it in preparation for september explaing these changes and how it would benifit them should they need extra hours, I just hope that I am the only one to have done so and that people havent been telling parents that from september they will be able to have their children extra days if needed. let me state that I havent told parents or given them the letter but have typed it ready whilst I had spare time to do so.
my la is essex and they know nothing of this change.

[loocyloo]

north yorkshire are aware of the change and say it will be up to individual childminders, the norm will be 3 under 5 and we can grant ourselves variation for siblings ... they are checking for continuity of care. north yorks LA will NOT be asking/granting permission. they will be supporting childminders just as they do now!

[Bridey]

Just come back from New EYFS training and this is what Hampshire said ...

(and believe me, I made sure I wrote this down!)

Emergency variations can be granted by Ofsted over the phone for one day only - to be used should a parent turn up on your doorstep with the child without prior warning.

Other variations require 14 days notice to Ofsted.

No variation required for going over numbers with continuity of care eg four siblings

Ofsted are still waiting confirmation from DofE on all this as they are not happy that the no variation scenario is open to abuse!

[mushpea]

so will it be ofsted or a loca authoruitys that grant variations from september then?

[Bridey]

Who knows!

[sarah707]

I showed them your document sarah and a few of the posts regarding this and they said that ofsted have not yet issued this and basicly they laughed at the idea that we dont have to apply to ofsted,, great , I tell them what you have written and they laugh at me, I wasnt impressed.
as far as they are concerned ofsted say we still have to apply to them in september and we cant just agree ourselves wether we take on extra children even if it is continuity of care.
what concerns me now is that people will take your word that we dont have to apply then iligaly have more children than they should.
I have to say Sarah that I respect you a lot and aprceitate that you can be very knowladgable and that you keep yourself very up todate , I love your docments you write and really appriciate the time you put in on this forum and the advice you give me so please dont get me wrong but I do think that facts need to be got straight and people need to understand that this might not actutaly happen,, because I belive that you are so up on these matters I had pretyped a letter to parents , not given it to them but typed it in preparation for september explaing these changes and how it would benifit them should they need extra hours, I just hope that I am the only one to have done so and that people havent been telling parents that from september they will be able to have their children extra days if needed. let me state that I havent told parents or given them the letter but have typed it ready whilst I had spare time to do so.
my la is essex and they know nothing of this change.

With the greatest respect to your LA... and you as you have clearly been upset by them tonight...

But do you really really think I would put something as important as the variations document on the forum or anywhere else without getting it checked by Ofsted first?

I am first and foremost totally professional in everything I do.

If I am not sure about any of my facts I go straight to the top and get my answers from Ofsted - not the phone line, the person making the decisions - and so does Penny.

My document was proof read (and changed in lots of places) by Ofsted and it was correct on the day it was written.

I am happy to share my information with your LA if they want further clarification.

[loocyloo]

Just come back from New EYFS training and this is what Hampshire said ...

(and believe me, I made sure I wrote this down!)

Emergency variations can be granted by Ofsted over the phone for one day only - to be used should a parent turn up on your doorstep with the child without prior warning.

Other variations require 14 days notice to Ofsted.

No variation required for going over numbers with continuity of care eg four siblings

Ofsted are still waiting confirmation from DofE on all this as they are not happy that the no variation scenario is open to abuse!

i thought i had it clear in my mind ... obviously not! ARGHHHH!

[mushpea]

With the greatest respect to your LA... and you as you have clearly been upset by them tonight...

But do you really really think I would put something as important as the variations document on the forum or anywhere else without getting it checked by Ofsted first?

I am first and foremost totally professional in everything I do.

If I am not sure about any of my facts I go straight to the top and get my answers from Ofsted - not the phone line, the person making the decisions - and so does Penny.

My document was proof read (and changed in lots of places) by Ofsted and it was correct on the day it was written.

I am happy to share my information with your LA if they want further clarification.

applogies Sarah I didnt mean to offend you, I have the greatest respect for the time and work you put in and the advice you give is excellant and many a time you have helped answer questions for me ,
as for tonight I came away totaly upset and stressed over the whole affair one hand I have somone whom I respect telling me that they have spoken to ofsted who have told them we can judge variations for ourselves and on the other hand I have essex la telling me its all a load of tosh and saying to ignore this advice and to always contact ofsted regarding variations.
Of course I dont think you would put this on here with out checking things out first but as you have put in the document there are areas that still need to be verified and I just worry that people will take it as gospel and not worry about informing ofsted in september of taking on a 4th child. but then I guess the onus is on them to check it out properly with who ever will give out variations .
I guess unitll its in black and white from ofsted the best thing to do is to apply to ofsted then if they come back and say I dont need to then great.
I must say that I was very shocked knowing that the information was on this forum and that you had contacte d ofsted with this that the people delivering our training tonight knew nothing of this. you would think they would check their facts too. really what we need is an ofsted inspector at these meetings so we can ask them questions.
there were other things that came up tonight like not highligting the development matters yet how then can we prove to ofsted we know the child and that they have reached these milestones.
I wish they would just leave things as they are

[miffy]

I just wish Ofsted would hurry up and publish their own guidance - preferably before the 1st of September!

Miffy xx

[lfishwick]

I was told on the phone by Ofsted just this week I need not apply to them for a variation from September.

I phoned to enquire about my twins changing their days and asking could I have 4 little ones alone on these days... Her words were she saw no problem but as it wouldn't impact until September- to leave it as I can make my own decision and risk assess it then as Ofsted are not doing variations and it is up to me to assess and be able to explain why I felt my decision was safe and in the best interest of the children - should I get asked and nothing was to be sent to them just kept on file in 'any chosen format'.

So Ofsted clearly Ofsted are stating this as a 'done deal'

[sue m]

I rang Ofsted the other day to ask if I can have 4 under 5 years old and the woman kept referring to the EYFS as EYSF and said it was up to me, I know how many I can manage.

[mama2three]

What is most worrying here is that , unlike sarah , LAs seem to be struggling to get a grip on this. A number of us have spoken directly to Ofsted and they repeat what sarah has told us , - various ' trainers' have read the document and are interpreting it without neccesarily checking the facts. Wasnt one member told the other night that as a childminder she didnt need to do the EYFS paperwork?
This is getting beyond a joke - like Miffy i wish Ofsted would get on and publish so that we have something 'concrete' to refer our LAs back to.

As for the part about not highlighting / ticking the development matters - it hasnt really changed , the observations , next steps and summaries show we know the child and ticklists have been out of favour for some time.

[blue bear]

At my briefing they had clearly only had a quick read and told us at it stands we have to give notice to any children we have a variation on come September "unless ofsted issue further guidelines between now and then" (she is a d/o)

Load of rubbish, I told her I had contacted dfe and had a response that indicated all would be sorted end of July and people were not to panic, I sign posted the minders at the meeting to this forum and basically ended up answering every ones questions.

Speaking to another d/o this week her understanding was completely inline with what Sarah has written.

[Bridey]

We were told that the official word was that current variations "MAY' still apply in September, or they "MAY" not!

We did have a good trainer who admitted she was wading around as lost as we were over all this and there was not much she could confirm until the official guidelines come out. She said that all the rules have been set by DofE and Ofsted don't write them, they just govern them and there are bits that they are still clarifying themselves.

She also told us that once the official guidelines are published, she is sure amendments will follow given time!

[The Juggler]

applogies Sarah I didnt mean to offend you, I have the greatest respect for the time and work you put in and the advice you give is excellant and many a time you have helped answer questions for me ,
as for tonight I came away totaly upset and stressed over the whole affair one hand I have somone whom I respect telling me that they have spoken to ofsted who have told them we can judge variations for ourselves and on the other hand I have essex la telling me its all a load of tosh and saying to ignore this advice and to always contact ofsted regarding variations.
Of course I dont think you would put this on here with out checking things out first but as you have put in the document there are areas that still need to be verified and I just worry that people will take it as gospel and not worry about informing ofsted in september of taking on a 4th child. but then I guess the onus is on them to check it out properly with who ever will give out variations .
I guess unitll its in black and white from ofsted the best thing to do is to apply to ofsted then if they come back and say I dont need to then great.
I must say that I was very shocked knowing that the information was on this forum and that you had contacte d ofsted with this that the people delivering our training tonight knew nothing of this. you would think they would check their facts too. really what we need is an ofsted inspector at these meetings so we can ask them questions.
there were other things that came up tonight like not highligting the development matters yet how then can we prove to ofsted we know the child and that they have reached these milestones.
I wish they would just leave things as they are

mushpea I am not surprised at this at all. I find from keeping in touch with whats going on via this forum and just generally through other sites and reading that I often know more about what's going on than ANYONE in our LA does (those in an advisory role I mean). Apart from that all those people are now gone and the people that have taken on their roles haven't a scooby about what is going on

I think your LA need to get their act into gear. I would challenge them and say this is how it is now and WHY don't they know. I'm delivering a workshop on the revised EYFS to the childminders who attend our children's centre in 2 weeks plus outhers from the locality and I will be using the new EYFS document plus the additional guidance that Sarah has produced from her conversations with ofsted (thank you Sarah ) to explain how variations will work from September.

THe only person in our LA who was any good with keeping up to date with things like this has now left so as a support Minder and a member of the cc advisory board I don't see who else will keep minders up to date at teh moment.