PARENT RESPONSIBILITY
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    Default PARENT RESPONSIBILITY

    hi on the new ncma contracts it has a place for us to put the childs other parent on (with parental responsibility) what happens if the parent doesnt give you this information do you leave it blank

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    If there is another parent with parental responsibility you should have details because they could turn up to collect the child which they have every right to do unless there is a Court Order in place preventing this which you would also need to know about.

    I always try to get the details and address and contact numbers for an absent parent so I have them in case of an extreme emergency after all they are a parent as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickysmiths View Post
    If there is another parent with parental responsibility you should have details because they could turn up to collect the child which they have every right to do unless there is a Court Order in place preventing this which you would also need to know about.

    I always try to get the details and address and contact numbers for an absent parent so I have them in case of an extreme emergency after all they are a parent as well.
    father lives over 300 miles away doesnt have much to do with the child and no contact on my hours mum doesnt want his details on the form!
    also no child leaves my setting without written permission from mum and a password parental responsibility or not if i aint ever met them and they dont have a password the child isnt going any where with anyone until ive rang mum first as she main person day to day who i deal with just wanting to know if these details needed filled in or if mum wishes not to then that be fine

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    If the other parent has parental responsibility then you can't prevent them from collecting their child.

    That is why you need their information so you are aware of the person who has the right to do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridey View Post
    If the other parent has parental responsibility then you can't prevent them from collecting their child.

    That is why you need their information so you are aware of the person who has the right to do this.
    schools are not allowed to let parents (absent) collect a child even if they have this or is this different in childminding ?

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    I don't believe that legally they cannot prevent the absent parent with parental responsibility from doing so unless there is a court order in place - the same as us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridey View Post
    If the other parent has parental responsibility then you can't prevent them from collecting their child.

    That is why you need their information so you are aware of the person who has the right to do this.
    Absolutely right.

    If your contract has been with the father then you know him. You must have his full details it is not up to mum unless there is a Court Order in place.

    Surely you already have a signed Parental Responsibility form with the Dad on it anyway, you should have it has always been part of the EYFS requirement.

    I would insist on his full adress as he is next of Kin of the children.

    As for anyone else collecting the child then yes you need mums permission if the contract is now in her name and a password system is what I have.

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    Personally I would leave it blank. As a mother of 2 children whose father has parental responsibility, but has chosen not to have contact with them for 16 years this is an area I get quite angry about I don't know where he is and he does not know where I am - his choice. Therefore why should I put his name on a form?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickysmiths View Post
    Absolutely right.

    If your contract has been with the father then you know him. You must have his full details it is not up to mum unless there is a Court Order in place.

    Surely you already have a signed Parental Responsibility form with the Dad on it anyway, you should have it has always been part of the EYFS requirement.

    I would insist on his full adress as he is next of Kin of the children.

    As for anyone else collecting the child then yes you need mums permission if the contract is now in her name and a password system is what I have.
    contract with mum only ive never had any contact with dad at all and wouldnt know him if he knocked on my door

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    Quote Originally Posted by Playmate View Post
    Personally I would leave it blank. As a mother of 2 children whose father has parental responsibility, but has chosen not to have contact with them for 16 years this is an area I get quite angry about I don't know where he is and he does not know where I am - his choice. Therefore why should I put his name on a form?
    ive never met dad and nor know what he looks like from what ive been told by child and mum he visit very few and far between and lives over 300 miles away mum wishes not to have him on the form and i dont feel it my place to make her she grown woman and this is hench even if this dad who a stranger to me knocked on my door id wouldnt let the child just go with mum permission first

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    Quote Originally Posted by little stars ch View Post
    contract with mum only ive never had any contact with dad at all and wouldnt know him if he knocked on my door
    The chances are you will never hear from him. I have exactly the same situation with two of my mindees. Their dad lives in this town but they haven't seen them for about 5 or 6 years (his loss - they are beautiful lovely children).

    I've never met him and don't expect to but I know his name and address - its on my parental responsibility form.

    Don't put his details on the contract if that makes mum feels more comfortable ... but you do need to have them on file.
    Last edited by Bridey; 27-06-2012 at 09:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridey View Post
    The chances are you will never hear from him. I have exactly the same situation with two of my mindees. Their dad lives in this town but they haven't seen them for about 5 or 6 years (his loss - they are beautiful lovely children).

    I've never met him and don't expect to but I know his name and address - its on my parental responsibility form.

    Don't put his details on the contract if that makes mum feels more comfortable ... but you do need to have them on file.
    i try but mum very reluncant maybe i need to have a think of way to re word this too mum thankyou

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    i try but mum very reluncant maybe i need to have a think of way to re word this too mum thankyou
    I would ask mum for just his name to go on the form, even if it's Mr X, so no first name and no other details. If she refuses then there's not a lot else you can do. Maybe ask her to sign the form to say that she has refused so that it's there for ofsted to see if they did an inspection and asked about it.

    My own children have been to 3 different nurseries and I've never been asked for dh's details other than as an emergency contact. None of them have ever asked for parental responsibility information. Neither has dd's school.

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    I took advice from NCMA legal dept about a similar enquiry I had a few months ago.

    Irrespective of whether mum or you or I feel that dad has a moral right to contact, we cannot change the facts if he has legal contact or parental responsibility. Only a court can do so.

    We have a legal duty to hold accurate information on both parents, especially those who have parental responsibility. If mum says dad is not allowed contact, she must provide sufficient evidence (ie. copy of court order). In that case (also if she claims dad does not have parental responsibility) she must provide a written statement or fill a form to that effect. Keep this on record. You need that to cover your backside, especially if she's not telling the truth (and don't say it doesn't happen.)

    Stress to mum that you must have this information (signed for), or you cannot provide care. Failure to do so puts you in breach of your statutory obligations and duties. I've not checked, but think it might actually be an offense. You cannot operate your business legally without it. Gently inform her that she could be in trouble if she provides false information. I guess that's the kind of thing that could go down badly in court if they ended up with a custody battle.

    If the worst comes to the worst it's just possible that dad turns up out of the blue and demands to take away the child(ren). If you don't know him, it's still reasonable to demand sufficient proof of identity before you so much as unlock the door. I was also advised this would be a good time to call mum, the police, and social services. When you call the police, if you feel frightened or think that a child may be at risk, tell them so. I have it from a serving policeman that this helps them to prioritise the call.

    If you think this is something that's likely to happen, then you ought to have a procedure built into your safeguarding policy, as well as considering your own health and safety as a lone worker. It might even be sufficient reason to politely decline the contract. Only you can make that call.

    You can also take reasonable measures if you have good reason to believe the child may be at risk. But no matter what your feelings, remember that has to be more substantial than just "mum says he's a bad 'un". Do remember that you've only heard mum's side of things. Parental disputes can be nasty and blame-oriented, so parents on both sides don't always let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

    I know this is not easy, but no one ever said childminding was going to be easy. That's why special people like us do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by little stars ch View Post
    schools are not allowed to let parents (absent) collect a child even if they have this or is this different in childminding ?
    There is nothing a school can do if someone with proven Parental responsibility turns up to collect a child if there is no court order in place to stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by little stars ch View Post
    contract with mum only ive never had any contact with dad at all and wouldnt know him if he knocked on my door
    In which case I would leave it blank with a note to that effect on it.

    Please ignore the above comment it is wrong and I can't seem to be able to delete it.
    Last edited by rickysmiths; 28-06-2012 at 09:23 AM.

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    The specific legal requirements on page 23 of the current statutory framework mention this in the last bullet point.
    Under documentation on page 38 it states what must be recorded.
    the specific legal requirement for providers records is on page 40

    Hope this clarifies things for everyone

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by little stars ch View Post
    schools are not allowed to let parents (absent) collect a child even if they have this or is this different in childminding ?
    Sorry this is incorrect. It is against the law (and you can be held on kidnapping charges) if you refuse to allow a child to go with a person who has parental responsibility. The only person/people who can legally state that this cannot happen is a court and this would then be drawn up into a court order. However, any non resident parent who wishes things to be civil and to not cause their child distress etc would not collect a child without there being some prior agreement in place. I am the step-mother to children and I hold full parental responsibility so although I am not biologically their mother, I still have to be on their forms for legal purposes (they live with me) as well as their biological father and mother. We all have the same rights to the children and the NRP can collect the children - however as we have never agreed to this happening it never has and should it happen without the RP prior agreement (in our case) then we would not hesitate to take it back to court. I have provided the schools with all the paperwork that the court has drawn up to show contact arrangements and non of the arrangements are to collect the children from school.

    I also used to manage a nursery and mum and dad split, mum having the children live with her and it was all going through court. Mum did not want dad to collect and dad turned up to collect and I had to advise mum that as I knew him to be the childrens father I could not legally stop him collecting the children. What I did do though was delay him (childrens work etc) at the setting whilst another staff member called mum so she knew. Eventually it was all worked out in court and dad was not allowed to collect. We did have a copy of the relevant court orders on record for our own protection.

    In this instance, however I would get mum to write a note stating she is not giving the fathers details and attach this to the contract for your records.

    I wouldn't allow the child to go with him - but only cos I did not know him. If however I knew him to be the father and there was no court order in place to deny him picking the child up I would have to let him take the child otherwise he would be legally entitled to take criminal action against myself.

    If mum really feels that strongly about it and there is a valid reason why dad cannot collect - then perhaps she needs to go down the route of getting it put into a court order. This will protect her, you and the child should dad decide to turn up. To be fair though, do you really think he will from 300 miles away?
    Last edited by BuggsieMoo; 28-06-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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    You need to know who has parental responsibility. If dad has it then mum cannot say that he cannot because unless a court removes PR that the dad has legal rights

    I have a form where I explain PR and ask the person on the contract to fill in. This states who has it. If there are any legal ramifications in the future I am covered.
    Debbie

 

 

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