Very confused re assistants being able to be self employed?
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  1. #1
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    Default Very confused re assistants being able to be self employed?

    How can they be? I have been finding loads of information for me to think they can't be. For example....
    Employment status: basic checks to help you decide
    You can usually work out your employment status by asking a few straightforward questions.
    You are probably self-employed if you:
    run your own business and take responsibility for its success or failure
    have several customers at the same time
    can decide how, when and where you do your work
    are free to hire other people to do the work for you or help you at your own expense
    provide the main items of equipment to do your work
    You are probably employed if you:
    have to do the work yourself
    work for one person at a time, who is in charge of what you do and takes on the risks of the business
    can be told how, when and where you do your work
    have to work a set amount of hours
    are paid a regular amount according to the hours you work, and get paid for working overtime - even if you do casual or part-time work, you can still be employed

    From hmrc website.

    It's only really on here that I've seen people say they can be. So please tell me how as I would prefer to not have to pay out for things like pensions, holiday, sick pay and allow breaks....!

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    my neighbour was my assistant and was self employed.

    she used to invoice me for the hours she worked each month.

    she also used to do freelance stuff at a gallery, and also a bit of caring for the elderly. I was told she could be self employed as she was free to work elsewhere. but she only worked for me one or two 'afterschools' a week, term time only. I'm not sure that someone who works much more than a day or 2 as an assistant could be self employed.


    I used to know a self employed nanny - she did 2 days with one family, another 2 days with a second, and the 5th day she tended to get temp jobs ( although it was often the same families, but through an agency ). I guess if its the persons decision about when/where/who etc they work for, then that could make them self employed.

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    I am hoping to have help 7 hours a day 4 days a week term time and ad hoc in holidays up to the same. I just have no idea what I'm doing help!

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    Both my assistants are self employed.They work 3 days a week 10 hours a day, both registered as self employed with the tax man, have a name to their business and are free to work the other 2 days for who ever and also can if they wish not work the 3 days for me. I guess I give them contracts for those days and hours, once the contract runs out, I offer a new one, it's up to them if they want to renew it or not. It's not rocket science to work out if you want your assistant to be self employed. I did check it all with my accountant all was fine.

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    I think the HMRC advice is clear - childminding assistants who have a regular contact should be employed rather than self employed, however people somehow manage to get round it and the assistants are self employed.

    It all goes back many years when builders never used to "employ" their labourers they were always self employed sub contractors who could be used and laid off whenever the builders felt like it for whatever reason (lack of work, weather etc). Think employers get round having to give paid holiday hours etc by giving the employees a zero hours contract.

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    So if she is able to work on a day I don't need for someone else then she can be self employed, we have a contract between us like any contract worker and this can be renewed every term/ year. Is this the "loop hole"?

    It probably is clear but I feel like I'm trying to find the exact loop hole to make it work for things like not taking breaks. In an ideal world I would either have her self employed (if it's totally legitimate) or I would happily employ her but worried about how I give things like a legal lunch break. I realise that just because I want something doesn't mean it's ok which is why I need to make sure I am doing it all properly before speaking with her again.

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    Normally if a person works for 2 different people or more, they can be classed as self employed. The fact is, if they only find work with you and no one else but are looking and wanting work or other contracts is not your business it's there's to sort out. Anyone can set up as self employed in the view to find lots of clients, like childminders, some of my my fellow childminders have one family on their books, but still open to have more, just can not get the contracts. Still self employed!

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    I would give HMRC a ring.

    My assistant is my son. He just registered as self employed with HMRC and can work as much or as little as I need him. Lots last year, hardly at all this
    Your main obstacle I would think would be the assistant's willingness to work without any security etc.
    Lunch breaks: where numbers need us both, we just both stay on the premises and available to children, though they may well be asleep or playing happily - arrange days so that there is a quieter time where this is possible .

    Probably not much help... I would give Hmrc a ring and ask how the assistant would go about it, getting registered, finding out their NI level etc....
    Good luck

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by samb View Post
    So if she is able to work on a day I don't need for someone else then she can be self employed, we have a contract between us like any contract worker and this can be renewed every term/ year. Is this the "loop hole"?

    It probably is clear but I feel like I'm trying to find the exact loop hole to make it work for things like not taking breaks. In an ideal world I would either have her self employed (if it's totally legitimate) or I would happily employ her but worried about how I give things like a legal lunch break. I realise that just because I want something doesn't mean it's ok which is why I need to make sure I am doing it all properly before speaking with her again.
    I think there are two themes in this discussion...self employment connected to HMRC and being employed....employees have rights such as short breaks according to the hours they work

    Self employed/freelance set their hourly pay rates and are responsible for their own NI and tax which save you having to contribute those
    Employees are entitled to at least the minimum wage according to their age but you pay their NI and tax and employees benefits such as sickness, holidays or maternity leave

    Have you thought of approaching a union such as Unison to get clear guidance as well as HMRC?

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    Thank you... I have spoken now with business advisors provided by my la as well as acas and I feel employing an assistant is right for my situation but do appreciate everyone's advise.

 

 

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