Does anyone else feel this way.

[Keeley77]

Hi,

Ive been childminding for just over two years and I am considering giving it up. Ive completed a level 4 qualification and i can take funded children. I currently have a 3yr old everyday until 4.30 and a 12month old mon to weds until 3.30. - Ive given up taking afterschool ones other than on the odd occasion.

'm just feeling For many reasons that i don't want to continue - I will list a few of the reasons below

Very low pay
Conerns that a child may leave and I will loose income.
Paperwork
EYFS -
OFsted inspections - the feeling that Mrs O could turn up at any time.


Being under constant survalance the minute anyone knows your a childminder (slight paranio maybe lol) - Sounds silly but i like to let my own 3 year old the minded 3 yr old run around in the school playground at collection time - if its not raining I take them over as soon as the gates are open as they love running around and playing there. but i know parents are watching and thinking she isn't watch them properly- that sort of thing gets to me because people have such pre-concieved ideas regarding how children should behave etc which isn't necessarly benficial to childrens development.


Way to many toys in my house now! - have my own young children but would really like to get my living room back (i only have a small house) - and STAIR GATES - im sick of injuring myself by walking into stair gates!! - my kids are old enough for me to get rid of them all but work means they have to stay. (sounds petit I know)

I don't feel like i'm getting enough 'quality' time with my own children (5 and 3)

I have also had issues with parents being difficult. - AND WHY WILL THEY NOT READ MY POLICIES GRRR.... They sign to say that they have but clearly NOT. (rant over)

Im not sure if this is just a wobble but i'm going to look into going back to office based work. Its a shame because I have worked pretty hard to get my business set up but It doesn't seem worth all the hard work. Maybe im just feeling sorry for myself, would really appreciate some feedback and whether other people get frustrated with it all.


Many thanks

[Blueeyedminder]

Hi, I think everyone has those days, I know I did yesterday!! I agree with what you say about people knowing you're a childminder.. People constantly watching and judging you, it's like they want you to do something wrong!!! Some people are just so petty and have sad lives!

I'm a childminder in wales so it's CSSIW here not Ofsted! Thank god! EYFS isn't compulsory for minders here (yet)!! I read how much paperwork you guys have and it's ridiculous!! Sounds to me they're trying to make you into teachers?! Children should be children!!

If they introduced all the work you have to do there over here then I will definitely be giving up!! Buggar that! Haha
X

[Keeley77]

Hi, I think everyone has those days, I know I did yesterday!! I agree with what you say about people knowing you're a childminder.. People constantly watching and judging you, it's like they want you to do something wrong!!! Some people are just so petty and have sad lives!

I'm a childminder in wales so it's CSSIW here not Ofsted! Thank god! EYFS isn't compulsory for minders here (yet)!! I read how much paperwork you guys have and it's ridiculous!! Sounds to me they're trying to make you into teachers?! Children should be children!!

If they introduced all the work you have to do there over here then I will definitely be giving up!! Buggar that! Haha
X

Hi, yes i think you are totally right about being expected to be a teacher! - My daughter goes to nursery where they have a fully trained primary teacher, she does all the planning and works with the children - (obviously its the same EYFS curriculum) its a brilliant nursery and the children love it. However I am NOT a teacher! Teachers have been trained! I haven't had teacher training and I don't have access to the resourses that teachers have. - Why do they expect childminders to be Teachers?? I don't think it is fair and we certainly do not earn a teachers salarly. I am def in a ranting mood today - at least it is Friday! lol I think I might right a letter to Lizz Truss get it all of my chest!! ha

[tess1981]

Hi, I think everyone has those days, I know I did yesterday!! I agree with what you say about people knowing you're a childminder.. People constantly watching and judging you, it's like they want you to do something wrong!!! Some people are just so petty and have sad lives!

I'm a childminder in wales so it's CSSIW here not Ofsted! Thank god! EYFS isn't compulsory for minders here (yet)!! I read how much paperwork you guys have and it's ridiculous!! Sounds to me they're trying to make you into teachers?! Children should be children!!

If they introduced all the work you have to do there over here then I will definitely be giving up!! Buggar that! Haha
X

In northern Ireland we don't have that paper work either and we get an inspection once a year but they changing it to one hour now I think but it never more than 2.5 hours anyway so not as intense but I still get days or weeks like that and other times I love it. Hang in there

[Blueeyedminder]

Exactly!! I don't see any teachers using their wages to pay for resources! Want me to start teaching?? Well we need;
Free training
Lots of grants for resources
Fuel allowance
13 weeks paid holiday a year
Oh and teacher training days please!

Don't see that happening!!

[Vikki5531]

Hi, I'm in the opposite position to you, I'm leaving my office job of 10 years to begin a career in childminding.

I hate not being able to pick my Daughter up from school whilst working until 17.00, not getting home until gone 18.00 with rush hour traffic, and hardly seeing my Daughter before her bedtime.

I've lost all my enthusiasm in office work and it was making me really depressed!

I'm now looking forward to setting up my own business and working around my own hours

I hope everything works out for you xx

[Shamai]

Hi, yes i think you are totally right about being expected to be a teacher! - My daughter goes to nursery where they have a fully trained primary teacher, she does all the planning and works with the children - (obviously its the same EYFS curriculum) its a brilliant nursery and the children love it. However I am NOT a teacher! Teachers have been trained! I haven't had teacher training and I don't have access to the resourses that teachers have. - Why do they expect childminders to be Teachers?? I don't think it is fair and we certainly do not earn a teachers salarly. I am def in a ranting mood today - at least it is Friday! lol I think I might right a letter to Lizz Truss get it all of my chest!! ha

Yes defo turn your negatives into positives by writing to Liz Truss - she will probably ignore your opinions and concerns but it may make you feel better!! Yes we all have bad days and totally agree with letting teachers do the teaching - they are qualified in their field. We are qualified in our field to care for children, make them feel safe, make learning fun and let them play. I used to feel guilty about not having enough time with my DD(5) but I am able to take her to school, collect her from school, attend school concerts and be there if she's ill. I've cut down my hours so that I finish at 6 and can spend an hour or so with her before bedtime for bathtime, spellings, reading and cuddles. Toys can take over your house but you don't need lots of toys, I took 5 bags to the charity shop the other week and feel very cleansed! Don't get disheartened, think of all the benefits - and try to make changes where you can. It will make a big difference. Good luck and don't forget... It's Friday - Yay! x

[Maza]

I'm feeling like that too, and sadly it is not down to the children - they are delightful. It is the paperwork and expecting Ofsted to be on my doorstep every time the doorbell goes. Also, a neighbour who is making lots of hints about the noise and parking. I do miss having colleagues too.

It is lovely being able to take my daughter to school and collect her each day. Also, we can pretty much go to assemblies and shows etc even if it means dragging along the mindees and all of their stuff.

[Simona]

Personally I don't think it is the paperwork...or the EYFS...or Ofsted...or parents not reading policies, that happens all the time...the low pay? well as cms we can choose how little or how much we earn as we set our fees...not being a teacher or carer...or as many often say a 'taxi driver or glorified babysitter'

There are 2 things I am against
1. the constant bashing from politicians...and the inspectorate...the lack of respect and the forgetting we have made huge strides in improvement...the last 20 years have been a constant change and I think most have adapted with breathing space between one reform and the next...not this time...it is relentless and it lacks any acknowledgement of good will on our part

No one is complacent and we know there is always room for improvement and I agree that changes are needed but...it is the way this govt goes on about it
The previous one introduced the EYFS 2008 and promised to review it in 2012...and they would have done it but this govt is already on the 2nd reform in the space of 2 years! The constant moving of the goal posts.....Give us a break I say.

No room for dialogue, the arrogance of deciding what is best for children when none of them have a clue or are qualified in the field
The pretence they listen and research and then...they do as they like, they ask for consultation and then ignore it and the endless wait for information and worry about what is coming next?

2. I truly and deeply resent providers on low wages having to fund education by subsidising what by law should be funded by the govt not private businesses...it is unfair, unjust and immoral.

Hold on if you can because many feel like you...at this time we need to vent our anger but we also need to support each other and be here to prevent new cms falling into agencies

[watford wizz]

Well said Simona I would just like to add that although I have never seen myself as "a teacher" it used to be thought that children didn't start learning till they got to formal school but we do teach through our commitment to nurture and encourage the very young with feeding, walking, talking, sleeping, manners, and the thousands of other things we "teach" every day and without these important building blocks "real teachers" would be well stuck x so be proud of the wonderful job we are all doing x x

[rickysmiths]

Exactly!! I don't see any teachers using their wages to pay for resources! Want me to start teaching?? Well we need;
Free training
Lots of grants for resources
Fuel allowance
13 weeks paid holiday a year
Oh and teacher training days please!

Don't see that happening!!

Actually if you talk to many Teachers they do spend quite a bit of their own money on resources and they can't offset them against their tax. I know my husband does and I haven't met a Reception Teacher that doesn't. The amount of paper and printing ink we go through at home!

Teachers do not get 13 weeks PAID holiday they are NOT paid for their holidays and never have been. They are paid for a set number of hour and days I think it is 190 days a year that they teach. Would you like to only be paid for 190 days a year? Again my husband doesn't get 13 weeks off to do as he pleases he works weeks of his holidays. Sorting out his room at the beginning and end of every half term, planning and preparing work, sorting out resources. On average 2-3 days most half terms 3-4 days at Easter and 3-4 weeks in the summer. The only holiday he doesn't go into school is Christmas but he does do work at home and of course none of this time is paid.

I get fuel allowance 45p a mile.

I have 4 paid Training days written into my Contracts NCMA (now PACEY ) recommended childminders do this years ago so they could access the eve increasing weekday Training.

So a lot of what you would like is within your power as a self employed person to do.

Please check your facts before you slate Teachers.

I agree with a lot of What Simona says. I have never regarded myself as a teacher and I have never come across a parent or Ofsted inspector who expected me to be either. I don't find the paperwork too much, just a pain! Again I choose how much paperwork I do there is actually very little that you have to do for EYFS so again cms make their own choices. I think without a doubt we have all got to become more savy at questioning Ofsted and what they say because I see more and more often on feed backs of inspections that people are being asked/told to do things that are not a requirement and do not HAVE to be done at all. We have got to challenge Ofsted over these things all the time. That will then make our working lives better.

As for income Simona in an ideal world yes we do set our fees and so our income but what we have less control over is when families may leave us and then how long it may take to fill the vacancies.I have just had a lean couple of months between one set of siblings leaving and filling their places but I do have to say when I am full I can't complain about my income. It is very good and way above min wage. I have, apart from sort spells thankfully been able to fill spaces and in a good year I earn more than my Primary School teacher husband so I am happy. I do again think people spend too much money on expenses. I rarely spend more 1/3 of my gross turn over on expenses and yes I pay more Tax but I actually have more net income than I would if I doubled my Expenses.

I love my job and I don't like the idea of Agencies but I will stay independent and see how it goes. My main love are the children and that is what i focus on I did 20 years ago when I started out and I still do. I would loath to have to go back to a 9-5 job and have to dress for the office. I love childminding and will continue to do so even if I have to jump through a few more hoops.

[Blueeyedminder]

Actually if you talk to many Teachers they do spend quite a bit of their own money on resources and they can't offset them against their tax. I know my husband does and I haven't met a Reception Teacher that doesn't. The amount of paper and printing ink we go through at home! Teachers do not get 13 weeks PAID holiday they are NOT paid for their holidays and never have been. They are paid for a set number of hour and days I think it is 190 days a year that they teach. Would you like to only be paid for 190 days a year? Again my husband doesn't get 13 weeks off to do as he pleases he works weeks of his holidays. Sorting out his room at the beginning and end of every half term, planning and preparing work, sorting out resources. On average 2-3 days most half terms 3-4 days at Easter and 3-4 weeks in the summer. The only holiday he doesn't go into school is Christmas but he does do work at home and of course none of this time is paid. I get fuel allowance 45p a mile. I have 4 paid Training days written into my Contracts NCMA (now PACEY ) recommended childminders do this years ago so they could access the eve increasing weekday Training. So a lot of what you would like is within your power as a self employed person to do. Please check your facts before you slate Teachers.

In my opinion teachers have it easier than CMs BUT the point I'm making is that the authorities are trying to change our job from carers to teachers which I'm not willing to accept or do

[rickysmiths]

In my opinion teachers have it easier than CMs BUT the point I'm making is that the authorities are trying to change our job from carers to teachers which I'm not willing to accept or do

I would love to see you do my husband's job! Walk a week in his shoes and I think you would find you would be begging to go back to childminding. You would have to see the amount of paperwork and tick boxing and the National Curriculum Changes again this Sept and all the Teachers I know have been on Training and have been working like crazy to be able to implement it on time and I suspect many weeks of work will be going on in the summer holidays (all unpaid).

I work 55-60 hours a week plus the usual training and paperwork. At present I have three under 2s every day for 10-11 hours, one 4yr old 3-4 afternoons a week and a 10 year old 3 days after school. I work very hard but it is a doddle compared to teaching classes of 34 children all day everyday, running Choir and Orchestra after school, producing musicals, concerts etc etc. he leaves home at 7,30am is rarely home before 5.30 and it is more often 6 to 6.30 and then he is always up working when I go to bed and I am never in bed before midnight. I can have a coffee when I want, he can't. I can think, like yesterday wow what a lovely afternoon we'll go out and we went to a small local airfield and sat on the grass in the sun watching helicopters and small planes, bliss, my husband can't do that.

You didn't comment on my other points did you? How about introducing 4 paid Training Days into your practice and taking 13 weeks unpaid holiday ayear and then work all but 5 weeks of it for free?

I don't think anyone is trying to change childminders into teachers that is not what EFS is about. What they do want is for us to really know the children we care for and understand their development.

[Kiddleywinks]

I don't want get into the childminder v teacher v politician elements, all valid points IMO

When I was employed I was earning a lot more than I am now but...
Had to pay tax and NI on everything which took a huge chunk
Earnt too much to qualify for tax credits, so had to pay for childcare for 2 children before and after school, and all day in the holidays
Pay petrol to and from work (30 miles a day), and sometimes parking (if the freebie spaces had gone lol)
I worked 8 - 4, but had to leave home @ 7am and after doing paperwork, tidying up, preparing for the next day, and drive home, I rarely got back before 6pm
Never got to see my kids plays or performances in person (my mum would go and record them for me)
I was shattered all the time. Weekends were spent washing, doing chores, sleeping, and trying to spend quality time with my kids (failed for the most part as was too tired half the time and never had any money for treats)
Financially we were skinted once I'd spent out keeping a roof over our head and on the means to get to work

I'm bringing in far less money in now than I was, but we're all much better off, financially and emotionally.

The other side to childminding, paperwork, ofsted, etc for me, is a small price to pay when I'm gaining so much more than I had before.

I understand you feeling the way you do - I think we're all feeling the pressure, but the grass isn't always greener working for someone else - it brings it's own pressures and expectations with far less control ;-)

[Simona]

Actually if you talk to many Teachers they do spend quite a bit of their own money on resources and they can't offset them against their tax. I know my husband does and I haven't met a Reception Teacher that doesn't. The amount of paper and printing ink we go through at home!

Teachers do not get 13 weeks PAID holiday they are NOT paid for their holidays and never have been. They are paid for a set number of hour and days I think it is 190 days a year that they teach. Would you like to only be paid for 190 days a year? Again my husband doesn't get 13 weeks off to do as he pleases he works weeks of his holidays. Sorting out his room at the beginning and end of every half term, planning and preparing work, sorting out resources. On average 2-3 days most half terms 3-4 days at Easter and 3-4 weeks in the summer. The only holiday he doesn't go into school is Christmas but he does do work at home and of course none of this time is paid.

I get fuel allowance 45p a mile.

I have 4 paid Training days written into my Contracts NCMA (now PACEY ) recommended childminders do this years ago so they could access the eve increasing weekday Training.

So a lot of what you would like is within your power as a self employed person to do.

Please check your facts before you slate Teachers.

I agree with a lot of What Simona says. I have never regarded myself as a teacher and I have never come across a parent or Ofsted inspector who expected me to be either. I don't find the paperwork too much, just a pain! Again I choose how much paperwork I do there is actually very little that you have to do for EYFS so again cms make their own choices. I think without a doubt we have all got to become more savy at questioning Ofsted and what they say because I see more and more often on feed backs of inspections that people are being asked/told to do things that are not a requirement and do not HAVE to be done at all. We have got to challenge Ofsted over these things all the time. That will then make our working lives better.

As for income Simona in an ideal world yes we do set our fees and so our income but what we have less control over is when families may leave us and then how long it may take to fill the vacancies.I have just had a lean couple of months between one set of siblings leaving and filling their places but I do have to say when I am full I can't complain about my income. It is very good and way above min wage. I have, apart from sort spells thankfully been able to fill spaces and in a good year I earn more than my Primary School teacher husband so I am happy. I do again think people spend too much money on expenses. I rarely spend more 1/3 of my gross turn over on expenses and yes I pay more Tax but I actually have more net income than I would if I doubled my Expenses.

Sorry if we are going to 'deviate' slightly from the original post...
We can see what you are saying about teachers...another sector that suffers from govt bashing
unless I am wrong teachers pay is a bit higher than ours?
Teachers in nursery or reception DO NOT subsidise 'free education' never have never will ...good on them
Yes they do prepare lessons as we do paperwork in our own time

I know that some spend money on resources ...some even feed hungry children...it is a good gesture but it is the state's role to fund schools accordingly and make sure children do not live in poverty...it is also parents responsibility to feed their children

Teachers have just turned down working 8-6pm I believe...good on them ...they have a strong union to back them...if we refuse to be more flexible Clegg said he would propose we get punished by not being awarded an outstanding...lovely!

Teachers get inset days and they are part of their hours? if not do explain because I may have that wrong?
I too used to charge for inset days until the parents rebelled...

Teachers follow a curriculum...we follow the EYFS most of which we have to interpret...see ratios and variations and much more

It is Ofsted who have suddenly decided to inspect us on 'teaching'...ok... but at least get us trained first! At Uni we covered teaching and learning styles very widely...it is not something we are born knowing

We do try to 'argue' with inspectors and end up having to complain and appeal...not a nice experience
I do regard myself as an EY 'teacher'...a pedagogue in fact... because care and education cannot be separated but it has to be seen in context...aren't parents children first and foremost educators...then we are secondary teachers...my view...do not shoot me

Yes paperwork can be kept to a minimum but if we do not go the extra mile the inspector may not approve
We can keep expenses to a minimum but every setting is different

I am sure that teachers are, at present, just as low in morale as we are and for the same reason...lack of respect and acknowledgement and encouragement to do better not constant criticism...it is hard to compare but both suffer from being fed up at the moment!

I too feel a little down but I won't let Truss win...we can fight back....sorry back to the thread!

[rickysmiths]

Sorry if we are going to 'deviate' slightly from the original post... Yes sorry but I was responding to an ill informed post.

We can see what you are saying about teachers...another sector that suffers from govt bashing

unless I am wrong teachers pay is a bit higher than ours? Yes they are but they are all degree qualified and Teach so I would expect them to be. There have been years when I have earned more than my Primary school husband Simona so if I am working full out my pay isn't bad and I would rather be a cm than a Teacher for sure. However a comment was made about holidays and Teachers long ones and I don't think people realise that the actually aren't paid a brass farthing for their 13 weeks holidays even though many of them probably work half of them. I just wondered how the cm would feel doing this?


Teachers in nursery or reception DO NOT subsidise 'free education' never have never will ...good on them
Yes they do prepare lessons as we do paperwork in our own time No they don't I agree.

I know that some spend money on resources ...some even feed hungry children...it is a good gesture but it is the state's role to fund schools accordingly and make sure children do not live in poverty...it is also parents responsibility to feed their children Of course it is the state' job to fund but they don't so teachers end up paying out of their own pockets.s

Teachers have just turned down working 8-6pm I believe...good on them ...they have a strong union to back them...if we refuse to be more flexible Clegg said he would propose we get punished by not being awarded an outstanding...lovely! I know it's daft isn't it.

Teachers get inset days and they are part of their hours? if not do explain because I may have that wrong? Yes their Inset days are paid. They are not part of the teaching year though.
I too used to charge for inset days until the parents rebelled...

Teachers follow a curriculum...we follow the EYFS most of which we have to interpret...see ratios and variations and much more Yes I agree.

It is Ofsted who have suddenly decided to inspect us on 'teaching'...ok... but at least get us trained first! At Uni we covered teaching and learning styles very widely...it is not something we are born knowing

We do try to 'argue' with inspectors and end up having to complain and appeal...not a nice experience I agree but more of us should and if we did they might start to realise that it would be better to follow the guidelines and not make up their own individual likes and dislikes.


I do regard myself as an EY 'teacher'...a pedagogue in fact... because care and education cannot be separated but it has to be seen in context...aren't parents children first and foremost educators...then we are secondary teachers...my view...do not shoot me

Oh don't get me started on this one!!!

Yes paperwork can be kept to a minimum but if we do not go the extra mile the inspector may not approve
This is where we should learn to stand our ground. Ofsted have said they don't expect to see reams of paperwork if more people din't do it 'just in case' then the Inspectors would be able to add in their own agendas as easily.


We can keep expenses to a minimum but every setting is different yes of course they are


I am sure that teachers are, at present, just as low in morale as we are and for the same reason...lack of respect and acknowledgement and encouragement to do better not constant criticism...it is hard to compare but both suffer from being fed up at the moment!

I too feel a little down but I won't let Truss win...we can fight back....sorry back to the thread!

Yes I feel disheartened at the moment. My Teacher husband does as well. But we both work with children and love our work and love to see children develop and progress and that despite all else is what feeds us and keeps us going.

[Simona]

Thank you for your reply Rickysmiths

I wonder if providers should not 'insist' on training : getting ready for an inspection?...a revised format where we can understand the guidance and, therefore, be more confident in our engagement with inspectors and, where, necessary challenge a dodgy judgement?

My understanding was that the reshuffling of Ofsted and its new directors was to provide support for providers...could this be an area Ofsted could be useful to us?

It may be another matter to raise at OBC
I am sure that many cms would feel less downhearted if better prepared for inspections...any thoughts anyone?