Potty training hell!

Hi all, I'm after some advice please.... Mindee (aged 3) has just been potty trained by Mum and arrived in pants with potty in hand the first week - great. All went ok for the first day then downhill - poos in pants etc. However wee's seemed to be ok. This week potty has been swapped for toilet - both here and at home (apparently) but child is not telling me when they need to go, cue wee's every hour or so in pants and all over my house :-( I'm starting to get annoyed. Mum and I seem to differ on what we consider potty trained - child is regularly weeing themselves, wont say when needs a wee, wont say when standing in wet pants that they've even done one even with me asking them. Can't (or won't?) pull own pants up or down. I feel child has stopped trying completely. I don't know what happens at home but think they may talk up how well child is doing.
I'm starting to get annoyed at them peeing all over my floors, sofa etc - but how do i deal with this. I dont want to say im giving up on them but equally dont want my house ruined in the process! I also don't have time to be changing clothes, wiping down etc after each accident.
Do i suggest pull ups if they don't crack it by say end of this week or next week? How can i be sensitive whilst getting the message across that child is most definitely not toilet trained?
Also, if they are really good at going to the toilet at home but not here how do i deal with that?
Any advice appreciated :)

I always think there is a stepping stone stage to being fully dry and that's the stage where they are in pants but I take the child to the toilet every hour at least...so they are not at the point of telling me, I am supporting by suggesting they go.
I never use pottys, just straight onto the toilet, we have an adult seat with a child seat inside and magnetically kept up so you choose correct size seat for them and a step to be independent at getting on. But I do have a downstairs toilet.
Before we go outside we all go to the toilet, before we go for a walk, before art, before snack, before lunch....lots of routine about going to the toilet in the setting helps.
This system then needs weaning off and child is asked regularly and makes decision themselves to go, so being aware and in control of full bladder. Only after these two stages will the child take themselves off to the toilet on their own, telling me they are going....and truly independent.
Often they have more weeing mishaps with us because they are too busy enjoying play and because if we have more children to look after too, we miss the pre signs, whee parents are just only focussed on child and toileting activity. I do adjust my activities when we have a full blown toilet training child here. But I know some have portable potties that go everywhere that works well too. Less clothes, just dresses no leggings for girls and just pants sometimes so easy for child to manage.

It is a tricky time when sofas get wet though....I do have a urine cleaner / absorber pack which helps.

It soon works out, especially if the child is three, it's when the parents start at 20 months that I feel they are not ready really, but children develop at different times, it isn't age related and I had a child dry during the day at 25 months......and one who just managed it 50 months.

Thanks flora, im asking the child all the time and am never more than a couple of metres away from them. We have a downstairs toilet and ive cancelled all trips etc so we are just literally at home and in the garden. We have a toilet step and child seat on the toilet - everything is in place for the best possible toilet training (i feel!) so its just so disheartening that child isn't telling me. Child was just sat in soaked through clothing after another accident and still wouldnt mention it when i noticed the wet patch on the floor. They are an intelligent child, meeting all goals etc, no SN and they have my undivided attention (unless they literally go whilst im typing this out!!). After every accident i tell them they must tell me if they need to go, they say yes, then they do it agin. im asking them all the time too but its tough to capture that 5 miliseconds when they decide they need to go.

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Originally Posted by mumofone

Thanks flora, im asking the child all the time and am never more than a couple of metres away from them. We have a downstairs toilet and ive cancelled all trips etc so we are just literally at home and in the garden. We have a toilet step and child seat on the toilet - everything is in place for the best possible toilet training (i feel!) so its just so disheartening that child isn't telling me. Child was just sat in soaked through clothing after another accident and still wouldnt mention it when i noticed the wet patch on the floor. They are an intelligent child, meeting all goals etc, no SN and they have my undivided attention (unless they literally go whilst im typing this out!!). After every accident i tell them they must tell me if they need to go, they say yes, then they do it agin. im asking them all the time too but its tough to capture that 5 miliseconds when they decide they need to go.

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I would just take him, build it into play " toilet time music, sounds" etc... don't ask, tell him "time to try and do a wee" ....then wean him onto making the decision himself.

I've had similar before so I did a little chart for the parents to see I was really trying. I had a sheet and put the timings down of everything, for example
9.00am took child to the toilet. Sat him on. He did nothing.
9.30 asked him if he needed a wee. His answer is a firm 'no'.
9.38 child has wee'd in his pants on my kitchen floor. I change him and sit him on the toilet, nothing.
10.00am took child to the toilet. A small dibble of wee.
10.30 asked him if he needed a wee? A very firm 'no' shouted at me.
11.00 took him to the toilet. Nothing.
11.25 poo'd in his pants .................................. etc.

Maybe ask parents to do the same to see if they are trying enough at home and not leaving it all to you. I personally don't like pull ups.
Best of luck. Put unfortunately it's not one answer fits all children. They are unique after all!

Oh poor you.

Like the others have said, make sure you physically take them to the toilet - don't just ask.

Maybe don't cancel all outings. If he wets himself when you are out then at least it isn't on your sofa and carpets. Obviously you go somewhere where there is a loo close by, or take a travel potty. I had one from JOJO Maman Bebe (potette, I think). The one where you use bags so the actual potty stays clean and you just put on a fresh bag for each child/visit to potty. I just used ordinary carrier bags - not the fancy more expensive ones designed for the potty.

I also used to use throws on my sofas for little mindees - just ordinary blankets from DD's cot days. You could also put a waterproof sheet underneath it. I know little ones at that age rarely sit still but if they are doing something like playing with bricks on the carpet I would also put a mat/blanket on the floor to define a play space, because then if they do forget to use the loo at least your carpet has been a bit protected. If he goes in your car put something under his bottom to protect your car seat. Just beware of the waterproof/disposable changing mat things because they might make him sweat. I don't use a car for minding and so I never had to think about that, but maybe someone else has a suggestion on what you could safely use.

Also, check that the little one understands the concepts/language of wet/dry. Emphasize it when they are washing/drying their hands, getting their sleeves wet when playing in the water, washing ride on toys etc.

The chart is an excellent idea - make sure you give a copy to parents - a filled in one.

Thanks everyone. Tonight on pick up Mum admitted that child hadn't been so great the past few days (she previously hadn't told me this!!).
I've been doing a daily chart which states the time and whether they went (# 1 or #2) and any accidents so they can see whats happened over the course of the day. Today was all accidents.
I'll try sitting the child on the toilet tomorrow at regular intervals and see how we go.

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Originally Posted by BallyH

I've had similar before so I did a little chart for the parents to see I was really trying. I had a sheet and put the timings down of everything, for example
9.00am took child to the toilet. Sat him on. He did nothing.
9.30 asked him if he needed a wee. His answer is a firm 'no'.
9.38 child has wee'd in his pants on my kitchen floor. I change him and sit him on the toilet, nothing.
10.00am took child to the toilet. A small dibble of wee.
10.30 asked him if he needed a wee? A very firm 'no' shouted at me.
11.00 took him to the toilet. Nothing.
11.25 poo'd in his pants .................................. etc.

Maybe ask parents to do the same to see if they are trying enough at home and not leaving it all to you. I personally don't like pull ups.
Best of luck. Put unfortunately it's not one answer fits all children. They are unique after all!

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What happened as a result of this information you gave the parents ballyh?

I always treat poorly trining as a game we start off on day one with me initiating all the moves, day two lots of prompts from me with space for child to ask. Day three child asking at least half the time or I stop. If a child is regularly wetiting not asking to be changed etc to me they are tired of the game and do t want to play. Me I would stop all efforts and try again in a couple of weeks, children have to be mentally ready as well as have the holding skill.

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Originally Posted by mumofone

What happened as a result of this information you gave the parents ballyh?

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With this child we stopped. They were getting stressed, a lot of shouting 'no' etc, mum was getting stressed and it was becoming a big issue and it shouldn't be. So we chatted and agreed to wait. We started again about 3 months later. Warmer weather helped I think. (Is it just me that thinks children are easier to potty/toilet train in warmer weather?). The child was ready. But this worked for this one child. May not for all.

I ask for mindees to be using the potty at home for 2 weeks before I will accept them in pants, it is not my job to potty train their child, but once they start I will support it.
ive had children before where mums want them potty trained but expected me to do the work so nope no more. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Hebs

I ask for mindees to be using the potty at home for 2 weeks before I will accept them in pants, it is not my job to potty train their child, but once they start I will support it.
ive had children before where mums want them potty trained but expected me to do the work so nope no more. :thumbsup:

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I too think it is a joint venture with parents as with all areas. But I do think it is my part of my job to help the children achieve '

manage their own basic hygiene and personal needs successfully, including dressing and going to the toilet independently.'
So I do it work closely with parents...if they start it I don't think it is helpful if the child spends time with me that I too don't support independence from day 1 of the project. It is quite tricky for parents to support children on their own if they are with us during the day...how do they get to the two week mark if they are only with parents at the weekend and from 6 o'clock at night? With a couple of children my input had to be more than the parents as they spent their days with me, probably more time in the week than with parents...so I led it really, it was the only way as the children were ready to go and we both wanted to help them.
I actually promote this working together as one of the unique areas a childminder can do as opposed to preschools in our area who just expect them to be either trained or in nappies...nothing in between.

All my parents have discussed this with me at our halftermly reviews so we sort of joint decide the time has come so I never have had any turn up with this news unexpectedly. It has been planned as their next steps just like every other area of their development.

I say parents need to start at home and to use some of their annual holiday to get it started, I don't mind helping to support it once it's been started but parents must do the initial work first

All my children are part time coming mostly Monday, Tues, Wednesday so I ask parents to stay home to start potty training on Thursday & Friday and then start going out on short outings taking potty with them at the weekend, I then stay home on the Monday and start going out from the Tuesday if we have got on OK. As FloraDora says I don't rely on children taking themselves, to start with I sit them on the potty at regular intervals, before a meal, before we go out and 10 mins (or so) after a big drink. I often find that learning to push a wee out comes before being able to hold one in.

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Originally Posted by Hebs

I ask for mindees to be using the potty at home for 2 weeks before I will accept them in pants, it is not my job to potty train their child, but once they start I will support it.
ive had children before where mums want them potty trained but expected me to do the work so nope no more. :thumbsup:

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I've also learned the hard way with this and used to do all the work for the parents here! So like Hebs now until parents are confident then sorry but it's nappies or pull ups until they are completely ready. I'll accept the odd accident but I'm not doing the whole lot any more!

Thanks everyone, just an update to say the next day was better but it was a case of me placing them on the toilet every 30 mins to an hour and obviously i need the child to be telling me (or at least giving me some indication) that they need to go. But on the upside they had no accidents (well one poo accident but one step at a time!!). I was going to write Mum an email that night detailing what i would like our next steps to be but felt i may offend her by telling her how to parent her child so i've held off. Child is now on hol for 5 days so im hoping that Mum will get a real insight in to how it is with the child or that the child actually improves and gets toilet trained in this time. If they come back to me having made no progress dyou think it would then be fair to propose some next steps to Mum...?

I started out thinking it should be joint venture but trouble is we never know what goes on behind closed doors when child is at home. This same child is an incredibly fussy eater for example and ive been asked to help with this. But every day on drop off child is munching on white breadsticks or fruit pouches (neither of which i consider nutritious) and at home time is treated with biscuits. Child often arrives with chocolate round their mouth too. No wonder they dont eat here if thats what they get at home!

Does anyone have a potty training policy in place - what does it say?

I do, I'll post it in a bit x

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Originally Posted by Hebs

I do, I'll post it in a bit x

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Thanks hebs, that would be great if you could.
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