Ratio variation - please help!!

Hello, hoping someone can help me...

I have a parent coming to sign a contract today for me to pick her daughter up from School starting in September-she'll be 4 but I know when she is in full time school I can treat her as a 5 year old. Mum wants her to come to me every Monday until September for a full day to settle her in.

I currently have on a Monday-Friday my son who is 2 yrs and siblings 3yrs and 1 yr...

I called Ofsted and asked if I sent my son to work with his dad on a Monday would he still count in my Numbers - Ofsted said no he wouldn't... Which was news to me!! I then asked on a social media childminding site and got really confused by everyone's responses, so have just called Ofsted again for further clarification and the person I spoke to today said that Ofsted is not allowed to tell you yes or no it's for you to risk assess and show you can meet the requirements of the EYFS

I believe I can as it's only one day a week for this new starter and only for 7 Mondays until she starts school. Do you all think this is acceptable??

I don't want to be downgraded because of this at my 1st inspection!!

Thankyou for reading

Holly

Is there another day that the child could come where you are not over numbers? You are not supposed to go over numbers for new starters only for Continuity of care for current mindees. For example two of my mums have asked for an extra day from September so one goes to five days a week and the other to 4 days and then 2 of the days I will have 4 under fives but I can do this because it is existing children.

To be honest I would do a 1-2 hour session and maybe a half day the week before they start. I wouldn't want to send my own two year old to work with dad ( and your own children do count in your numbers at all times.anyway)

I had one like this start last Sept as he went into Nursery and he was fine.

My understanding is that if you son is with your husband for those days, you are not responsible and will not count in your numbers so you could take on this child. I currently do that I have 4 children of which one is my own and my husband looks after him so therefore only have 3 to count in my numbers.

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Originally Posted by NinaBowen

My understanding is that if you son is with your husband for those days, you are not responsible and will not count in your numbers so you could take on this child. I currently do that I have 4 children of which one is my own and my husband looks after him so therefore only have 3 to count in my numbers.

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What would you do if your husband was ill and couldn't look after your child? My understanding is that nothing has changed and your own children still count in your numbers whether they are with you or not.

Its my understanding that our own children count regardless of where they are. But maybe thats because I like to be over cautious rather than risk my registration.

This is one of the sub notes in the 2012 EYFS and it remains in the 2014 EYFS

The numbers include the childminder’s own children or any other children for whom they are responsible – for example, children who the childminder is fostering

So it does state that your children count in your numbers.

Ofsted said its up to me to risk assess the situation and decide myself as they are a lot
More flexible now they dont put numbers on your certificates .... I can easily put measures into place if my husband was sick and couldn't take My son to work

Difficult one as my husband is at home with me anyway.

Firstly, we work in partnership with parents...so, you must be firm but fair with parents. Why is mum insisting on Mondays? And why the full days (immediately). Settling in can be a very difficult time for the new child and you and your existing children and the new child's parent. It should be done gradually. Full days straight away could be very difficult for the child. If they are very confident socially and are happy to stay all day then, that's ok.
When your child is with his dad on Mondays, he is not in your numbers but if dad is unwell or has to go on course etc you have to have Plan B. Always think worse case scenario and plan ahead. If I can give you any advice based on my 15years of childminding it is this ...Do not agree to anything with a parent that is going to put unnecessary pressure on you in the future. Be clear about your limitations - be firm, fair and professional with parents. If your conditions do not suit the parents then they are not the family for you. Other families will come along. Childminding is a three way operation - Child, Childminder and Parents. I hope you enjoy childminding for many years to come.

Iv called Ofsted 3 times now and twice was told
I could but the last person said no and my child counts!

I am now not going to take this child on until September-dont want to risk
My registration

Unfortunately it seems that childminders are allowed to be discriminated against for having children whether you make arrangement for their care or whether their father takes responsibility for them speaking as a mum but vice-verse of course.
I don't know of ANY other parent that would be discriminated against in the work place for having children - in fact to my knowledge this is illegal!!

As you can tell this is a bone of contention with me as I do not think it is fair, morel or ethical to restrict a child minder to incorporate their own children in their numbers if they have made alternative care arrangements for them. OK if your child is sick you care for them or arrange individual care for them and re arrange work accordingly or make alternative arrangements just like anyone else in any work force, teachers, doctors, kings, queens, refuse collectors - all important jobs but non discriminated against for having children!! :angry: Why?? Because it would be wrong! So why is it right to to this to a childminder?

Off my soap box now - I hope it all works out for you and it's a shame you are restricted like this, it all makes a tough job harder and even harder to make a living. Especially when numbers are so tight.

I for one know it's not always the amount of children that needs to be addressed but the 'type' (When I say type I mean and hope you understand that there are some children that would pose issues if it was one to one just because of how they are and there are other children who you could have half a dozen of and they would be a lot less work and more contented that the one difficult child alone) of children that needs to be assessed when working out and planning ratios And this is and should be for the childminder to assess as they are the only ones who knows their capability and the needs of the children needing care But still the number restrictions are in place as a blanket for EVERYONE and further resticted if you have your own children and I don't think this is fair and I believe is too restrictive - oops climbed back on my soap box. :D

:thumbsup: do what works for you :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Koala

Unfortunately it seems that childminders are allowed to be discriminated against for having children whether you make arrangement for their care or whether their father takes responsibility for them speaking as a mum but vice-verse of course. I don't know of ANY other parent that would be discriminated against in the work place for having children - in fact to my knowledge this is illegal!! As you can tell this is a bone of contention with me as I do not think it is fair, morel or ethical to restrict a child minder to incorporate their own children in their numbers if they have made alternative care arrangements for them. OK if your child is sick you care for them or arrange individual care for them and re arrange work accordingly or make alternative arrangements just like anyone else in any work force, teachers, doctors, kings, queens, refuse collectors - all important jobs but non discriminated against for having children!! :angry: Why?? Because it would be wrong! So why is it right to to this to a childminder? Off my soap box now - I hope it all works out for you and it's a shame you are restricted like this, it all makes a tough job harder and even harder to make a living. Especially when numbers are so tight. I for one know it's not always the amount of children that needs to be addressed but the 'type' (When I say type I mean and hope you understand that there are some children that would pose issues if it was one to one just because of how they are and there are other children who you could have half a dozen of and they would be a lot less work and more contented that the one difficult child alone) of children that needs to be assessed when working out and planning ratios And this is and should be for the childminder to assess as they are the only ones who knows their capability and the needs of the children needing care But still the number restrictions are in place as a blanket for EVERYONE and further resticted if you have your own children and I don't think this is fair and I believe is too restrictive - oops climbed back on my soap box. :D :thumbsup: do what works for you :thumbsup:

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Thank you!

My OH has his own business and all his family work there so I know I would always have help if my OH was ill and couldn't look after my lo.

But oh well! I have spoken to the prospective parent and she is fine - am going to do
Some settling in sessions when my
Other two mindees are away on holiday (hopefully thats allowed?!!!)

Koala you have hit the nail on the head! Getting on my soap box now I have 1 under five of my own at the moment, its about tax credits I can't claim for paid childcare but in effect I am paying for it because my children are taking up spaces!

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Originally Posted by NinaBowen

Koala you have hit the nail on the head! Getting on my soap box now I have 1 under five of my own at the moment, its about tax credits I can't claim for paid childcare but in effect I am paying for it because my children are taking up spaces!

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yep, been there, it's so unfair, you get screwed either way, even if you arranged for childcare from someone else you still have to save that place in your own setting - so in effect it costs you double. I really think it is so wrong and can't believe how the blatant discrimination is allowed to continue! I can't see in any part of the eyfs that it says, nurseries or schools have to take into consideration the workers children and combine them in the ratio's!! but yet it does for childminders!? go figure!? IMO it is disgusting. :angry:

I am sorry and hope I don't offend anyone but having read a previous post - I don't think it's justified to say - what if your husband is ill and can't look after your child - it really is discriminatory - It would not be asked of anyone, man or woman in any other workforce because it is the parents choice and responsibility as to how and who cares for their child whilst they earn a living and it should not restrict their work or earning capacity and this should be the case for everyone including childminders!! oops i've slipped on the soap box again. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dolly1985

Iv called Ofsted 3 times now and twice was told
I could but the last person said no and my child counts!

I am now not going to take this child on until September-dont want to risk
My registration

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The fact you have called Ofsted 3 times and not received the same answer shows that their Helpline is far from being trained satisfactorily and able to give the support when people call?....suddenly I am reminded of another instance where that happens????

It is not their practice to advise on EYFS but they should always direct us to DfE...they write the EYFS and Ofsted has a duty to interpret according to the wording

You should always take their name and ask for your query to be logged in your file as evidence

I would ring the DfE and see what you get from them
also this matter has been raised at London Ofsted Big Conversation where the Ofsted panel have been made aware of the discrepancy in explaining ratios for CMs....which is 3 short paragraphs for us against the ratio for other settings which is spread over pages

We await their response with anticipation !!!
The ratio for CMs in the EYFS... WAS.... and remains a very badly written piece of legislation open to individual interpretation...people continue to quote 'continuity of care' and 'new business' ...but I have never been able to find any actual wording ...so yes it is individual understanding

I wonder what he aim behind that is?...does the speed limit of 70 MPH on a motorway leave it to the driver's interpretation?