Childminding contract

[Eva]

Hi all

I'm not sure if i'm posting in the right area so sorry if I am.

There are lots of things i'm not happy about with my childminder but i'm kind of stuck.

I'm a student and get money on a termly basis so had said to my childminder that I would pay her at the beginning of each term. I did this last term and had planned to do it this term too. Anyway My childcare from mid January to June comes to a total of approx £1800. I paid her £1000 last Monday and had planned to pay her the rest last friday but then she started to harass me for the money and it annoyed me because I thought it was unreasonable that I had paid her up until the end of March and she was demanding the money already. Anyway i've just realised that it's actually in the contract that I will pay her termly!!! I'm such an idiot...why on earth would I do that?

The issues I have include: leaving the children on their own a lot! , her children bullying mine, dragging my daughter round shops to the point she's crying because her legs hurt. Food shopping acceptable- bra shopping and getting your eyebrows done is not and other things- there's quite a few!

Is the contract set in stone regarding my payments to her? Seeing as i'm paying 5 months up front? If I take my daughter out how much notice do I have to give her and am I entitled to the money back that i've already paid her?

Thanks in advance

[Pipsqueak]

Hi all

I'm not sure if i'm posting in the right area so sorry if I am.

There are lots of things i'm not happy about with my childminder but i've kind of screwed myself over.

I'm a student and get money on a termly basis so had said to my childminder that I would pay her at the beginning of each term. I did this last term and had planned to do it this term too. Anyway My childcare from mid January to June comes to a total of approx £1800. I paid her £1000 last Monday and had planned to pay her the rest last friday but then she started to harass me for the money and it annoyed me because I thought it was unreasonable that I had paid her up until the end of March and she was demanding the money already. Anyway i've just realised that it's actually in the contract that I will pay her termly!!! I'm such an idiot...why on earth would I do that?

The issues I have include: leaving the children on their own a lot! , her children bullying mine, dragging my daughter round shops to the point she's crying because her legs hurt. Food shopping acceptable- bra shopping and getting your eyebrows done is not and other things- there's quite a few!

Is the contract set in stone regarding my payments to her? Seeing as i'm paying 5 months up front? If I take my daughter out how much notice do I have to give her and am I entitled to the money back that i've already paid her?

Thanks in advance

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry to hear you are experiencing some problems with your minder.

With regards to the contract - yes its 'set in stone' a contract is a legally binding document. However, it sounds like there is some miscommunication here.

if one of my parents had paid me up till March there is no way i would be harrassing them.

I would really suggest that you sit down and talk to the minder and explain you have paid this xx amount and although you have both put it in the contract that you will pay termly then you will happily have back the difference for this term if she would prefer.

with regards to the other issues - if you are unhappy again i would suggest speaking directly with the minder intially and seeing if you can iron these points out.

How do you mean she leaves them on their own?
How do you know about these problems (please note I am not doubting your child if that is what they have told you - however children often have a different take on things.


No I agree 'personal' and beauty shopping is not acceptable.

If you cannot get this sorted out by talking then you put the complaint in writing
You may want to consider handing your notice - check your contract for the notice period - normally 4 weeks.

So hand your notice in accordance with the notice period.
You would ask for a refund for any monies paid after this 4 week period has ended.

[Eva]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry to hear you are experiencing some problems with your minder.

With regards to the contract - yes its 'set in stone' a contract is a legally binding document. However, it sounds like there is some miscommunication here.

if one of my parents had paid me up till March there is no way i would be harrassing them.

I would really suggest that you sit down and talk to the minder and explain you have paid this xx amount and although you have both put it in the contract that you will pay termly then you will happily have back the difference for this term if she would prefer.

with regards to the other issues - if you are unhappy again i would suggest speaking directly with the minder intially and seeing if you can iron these points out.

How do you mean she leaves them on their own?
How do you know about these problems (please note I am not doubting your child if that is what they have told you - however children often have a different take on things.


No I agree 'personal' and beauty shopping is not acceptable.

If you cannot get this sorted out by talking then you put the complaint in writing
You may want to consider handing your notice - check your contract for the notice period - normally 4 weeks.

So hand your notice in accordance with the notice period.
You would ask for a refund for any monies paid after this 4 week period has ended.

I think the problem is that my last childminder who was amazing was really very flexible and relaxed. I paid her at the beginning of term and I don't think either of us have any idea whether she was being paid the right amount (more or less) but either way she was happy with the amount. She absolutely adores my daughter to the point that even now she will take her out for the day and not want money to do so!

I think she is an exception but I do need someone who is flexible as my hours can change from month to month and I explained this when we signed the contract and since signing the contract have given her updated versions of the times I need her. She calculates every single minute- and has every right to do so and it's not the money that's an issue as I get the majority of that paid for me but it's the fact that she's very money orientated (I know everyone's got to make a living) but It's like she sees my daughter as money and the childminder I want looking after my daughter has got to be doing it because they love children first.

The childminder seems to spend a lot of time upstairs- even my dad who picks my daughter up occasionally has noticed this. I also dropped my daughter off the other day and her son says she's not here (her son is six and was left with his 3 year old sister and a 2 year old mindee) She had gone out of her back garden and round, past a 6 foot fence to her garage- the kids were completley out of sight and she wouldn't be able to hear them! Her son has hit my daughter, right smack in the face in front of my eyes. When my daughter told the childminder she just walked past her (I just stood there in shock not quite knowing what to do) She also forgot about my daughter when the school she attends went to a church service because she was chatting to a friend (she was at the church service as well). The teachers took her back to the school until she finally arrived. The issue with her kids bullying my daughter was kind of resolved because she spoke to them but it does still happen just not quite as bad. Also one time my daughter came home saying me and her son were showing each other willies and bottoms (not really appropriate behaviour) when I asked where her childminder was she said upstairs!

My daughter does usually have genuinely nice things to say about her so I tend to believe the negative- especially after what I have witnessed.

As for speaking to her-I know issues should be resolved in person but it will turn into an argument and i cannot leave my daughter in the care of someone who is angry with me. The only reason she is still in her care is because there are very few childminders in the area and none with any vacancies. I have no alternative except to pay an absolute fortune in taxi's to and from school to my old childminder which is what i'm probably going to do. The only other option is to give up studying but I have worked so hard to get where I am.

I am seriously concerned about getting this money back off her though

[leo3]

I think the problem is that my last childminder who was amazing was really very flexible and relaxed. I paid her at the beginning of term and I don't think either of us have any idea whether she was being paid the right amount (more or less) but either way she was happy with the amount. She absolutely adores my daughter to the point that even now she will take her out for the day and not want money to do so!

I think she is an exception but I do need someone who is flexible as my hours can change from month to month and I explained this when we signed the contract and since signing the contract have given her updated versions of the times I need her. She calculates every single minute- and has every right to do so and it's not the money that's an issue as I get the majority of that paid for me but it's the fact that she's very money orientated (I know everyone's got to make a living) but It's like she sees my daughter as money and the childminder I want looking after my daughter has got to be doing it because they love children first.

The childminder seems to spend a lot of time upstairs- even my dad who picks my daughter up occasionally has noticed this. I also dropped my daughter off the other day and her son says she's not here (her son is six and was left with his 3 year old sister and a 2 year old mindee) She had gone out of her back garden and round, past a 6 foot fence to her garage- the kids were completley out of sight and she wouldn't be able to hear them! Her son has hit my daughter, right smack in the face in front of my eyes. When my daughter told the childminder she just walked past her (I just stood there in shock not quite knowing what to do) She also forgot about my daughter when the school she attends went to a church service because she was chatting to a friend (she was at the church service as well). The teachers took her back to the school until she finally arrived. The issue with her kids bullying my daughter was kind of resolved because she spoke to them but it does still happen just not quite as bad. Also one time my daughter came home saying me and her son were showing each other willies and bottoms (not really appropriate behaviour) when I asked where her childminder was she said upstairs!

My daughter does usually have genuinely nice things to say about her so I tend to believe the negative- especially after what I have witnessed.

As for speaking to her-I know issues should be resolved in person but it will turn into an argument and i cannot leave my daughter in the care of someone who is angry with me. The only reason she is still in her care is because there are very few childminders in the area and none with any vacancies. I have no alternative except to pay an absolute fortune in taxi's to and from school to my old childminder which is what i'm probably going to do. The only other option is to give up studying but I have worked so hard to get where I am.

I am seriously concerned about getting this money back off her though

i would think about speaking to ofsted if these are the sort of things going on with the minded children. how many other children dose she have in her care.

[Louise0208]

i personally wouldnt leave my child with the minder,

i can understand your concerns with getting your money back, i dont know the ins & outs of contracts (even my own lol) but surely you are entitled for a refund apart from your 4 weeks notice....its just if the CM is co-operative
My best parent is a mature uni student & shes my best payer thanks to student financial services, she pays weekly instead of by term but we are both happier that way just incase i need a day off or LO is ill etc.

hope you get it sorted....i know what its like having used a bad CM myself in the past

[The Juggler]

i would speak to the minder about this straight away. Tell her you are really unhappy about the fact she was not around the other day when you dropped off and she was in the garage.

See how she reacts. This is totally unacceptable so She might realise you know that and behave properly for a while giving you time to find someone else or she may realise she needs to stop it and turn around (though I doubt this). If she reacts badly I would take your dd out immediately and give notice and then report her to Ofsted.

The money is due back to you ask her for an invoice for the care to date and to the end of notice period and then ask her to return the remainder of the fees paid up front. BUT do speak with someone at NCMA/MM as it may be as there is a breach of contract due to quality of care that you might not owe her notice.

Silly woman - gives the rest of us a bad name. I'm glad you had a fab first minder for your dd. Can she help you find someone else??

[Eva]

Hey

Well I found myself alternative childcare at my daughters before and after school club which is great. The lady who owns the place has been fantastic. She rang me the other evening and asked me about the problems I was having and talked me through everything which really put my mind at ease. She asked me to write down all the pro's and cons of the childminder and once I saw everything in black and white it helped clarify the whole situation. I had 3 pro's and 14 cons on my list!! The lady from my child's new place was disgusted with what was on my list and noticed that my contract wasn't even filled out completely. This woman also said that if she doesn't pay me the money back and I take her to small claims court then I would def win (not necessarily the 4 weeks notice) and then she'd have a CCJ against her and wouldn't be able to practice anymore.

I had an email from the childminder saying I think there's been some miscommunication and that she wants to speak to me and clear the air. I didn't even realise how difficult this woman was to approach with my concerns and how intimidated she's made me feel.

Anyway i've taken my daughter out of her care. I feel a mixture of anger and guilt mostly aimed at myself. Everyone tells me I shouldn't but I left my daughter in her care for 4 months! For most of that I wasn't happy yet I still did because I couldn't see any other way and i'm trying to provide a better future for my daughter. I told her that my daughter wouldn't be coming back by text message!! and said a letter would follow. I just could not face her. I also told her the reason was because she wasn't providing a safe and secure environment for my daughter. I haven't heard anything back from her. I'm going to contact ofsted after the weekend but I feel sick that I have to do this and if she does loose her registration then how is she going to feed her kids etc. There is nothing I can do about the situation but I just feel so sad that it has come to this

[michellethegooner]

Hey

Well I found myself alternative childcare at my daughters before and after school club which is great. The lady who owns the place has been fantastic. She rang me the other evening and asked me about the problems I was having and talked me through everything which really put my mind at ease. She asked me to write down all the pro's and cons of the childminder and once I saw everything in black and white it helped clarify the whole situation. I had 3 pro's and 14 cons on my list!! The lady from my child's new place was disgusted with what was on my list and noticed that my contract wasn't even filled out completely. This woman also said that if she doesn't pay me the money back and I take her to small claims court then I would def win (not necessarily the 4 weeks notice) and then she'd have a CCJ against her and wouldn't be able to practice anymore.

Firstly well done on finding alternative care, I wouldn't leave my kids with this cm (going by what you've said) I would let the cm know in writing my reasons for doing so and file the complaint with ofsted.

I don't believe a ccj can stop a childminder from practising please some-one correct me if I'm wrong.

This cm sounds awful and really gives us who work hard and love our jobs a bad name, to do this job you HAVE to love children, yes we need to be paid but for me and I think I speak for everyone here, I do this job firstly because I love children

[Eva]

Firstly well done on finding alternative care, I wouldn't leave my kids with this cm (going by what you've said) I would let the cm know in writing my reasons for doing so and file the complaint with ofsted.

I don't believe a ccj can stop a childminder from practising please some-one correct me if I'm wrong.

This cm sounds awful and really gives us who work hard and love our jobs a bad name, to do this job you HAVE to love children, yes we need to be paid but for me and I think I speak for everyone here, I do this job firstly because I love children

Ohhhhhhhh ok maybe it doesn't then that's just what I was told. Would Ofsted be able to see what the CCJ was for?

As i've said before my old childminder was amazing so has definitely not made me think badly of cm's in general just more aware that there are bad ones out there. I'm totally with you on the having to love children first. There are some jobs that you just cannot do if you are that money orientated! Personally I could never be a childminder, looking after one child is hard enough let alone 6!

[glitzygal]

I couldnt believe what i was reading,,

ITS THE ONES LIKE THOSE THAT GIVE US A BAD NAME AND SCARE GENUIN PEOPLE FROM USING US.........

thank god you found someone else quick, cant imagine what would have happened if you left your precious one there, after all they are all precious and thats how i treat little ones, cant believe she didnt take all of them to the garage, they all walk, and being upstairs, must be mad, we all know things happen in seconds, how would she explain an accident if she was upstairs.


Glad your going to ring ofsted, i hope she gets struck off, she wil have to find alternative job to feed her kids, you shouldnt feel bad, as she would have been told the do's and dont's, so it was her choice to leave them unattended,and go upstairs, and other things she done... not yours, you wouldnt anyway,,,,,

pampering, i know some do,, but i wouldnt, unless they get told off they will still do it.

once you explain to ofsted they should point you in the right way to get the rest of your money back, as someone said cm might fight it, good luck with that.

I always try to be flexible, and i wouldnt moan about being paid upfront per term, as i have experienced the late payers and the non payers, so that would be good,


please keep us updated, and lets hope she gets struck off, i hope no one goes to her and fill her space,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, there are genuin new minders out there struggling to fill spaces.

[Eva]

Ok so I will be ringing Ofsted but am going to wait until she responds to my letter of termination.

I have asked that £250 odd pounds be refunded to me and have stated that I may challenge the assumed 4 week notice period based on her being unable to provide a safe and secure environment for my child. Not sure where I stand here? But it seems unfair that I have to pay that when i've had to pull my daughter out in an emergency!

Either way i'm not pinning my hopes on getting the money owed to make back. I have reminded her that the money paid to her is government money and that if she does not give back the money owed to me i will be seeking legal advice so who knows.

The other problem i have is that she has to fill in a form for student finance. If this form is not filled in then I will have to pay all the money back that I have received for childcare!! Can she refuse to fill it in?

So are Ofsted interested in the whole story or do they want just a bullet point list of things that happened? I have told my childminder the main reasons that my daughter is being taken out of her care and have mentioned that I have other issues but did not list them as I do not want her fully prepared with excuses for when Ofsted visit.

Some of the other reason include: My daughter being left with her husband because I was 10 mins late on one occasion (due to public transport) and she had to get to pilates, my daughter being taken out in her friends car which I am quite sure is not registered for business purposes, her taking money that I accidently paid her as her 'christmas bonus', forgetting to collect my daughter from a church service she also attended because she was chatting to friends- my daughter was taken back to the school by teachers and I was contacted. She eventually went and collected her, telling my daughter they are going on trips out, not asking my permission (as she'd told my daughter i felt unable to say no) and then asking me for payment after (nothing in contract), no receipts etc for money i've paid her, contract has parts that are not filled in that apparently should be etc etc etc etc etc

Can you also tell me who is meant to fill in the contract?

[Pipsqueak]

Some of the other reason include: My daughter being left with her husband because I was 10 mins late on one occasion (due to public transport) and she had to get to pilates,

this depends on the circumstances - is her husband a registered assistant? really the minder should have waited for you - it is awkward when a client is late for collection but when its a non urgent/essentail place to be ie pilates then sorry I would have waited - not happy perhaps but I would have waited!


my daughter being taken out in her friends car which I am quite sure is not registered for business purposes,
a childminder can use alternative transport that we deem suitable providing we have parental permission to do so. this could mean someone else vehicle, taxi, bus, train, horse drawn carriage, donkey etc.

her taking money that I accidently paid her as her 'christmas bonus',
did you ask for it back? she cannot just take money on an assumption


forgetting to collect my daughter from a church service she also attended because she was chatting to friends- my daughter was taken back to the school by teachers and I was contacted.
it can and does happen though and sometimes it can be a genuine accident - slip of the mind type thing.

She eventually went and collected her, telling my daughter they are going on trips out, not asking my permission (as she'd told my daughter i felt unable to say no) and then asking me for payment after (nothing in contract), no receipts etc for money i've paid her, contract has parts that are not filled in that apparently should be etc etc etc etc etc

we can take children out on a trip within the normal working day but again we need parental permission. This could be you have already signed for taking a child out on 'routine trips'. to do so without notifying you ad then asking for the money.... not good.


Can you also tell me who is meant to fill in the contract?

I am glad you have found alternative care first of all.

How do you mean - fill in the contract? You and the minder fill in the contract together and sign/date it.

A CCJ cannot and does not stop a minder from practising I am afraid. You do stand a good chance of getting your money back via the small claims court but I would highly recommend ensuring you are writing everything down, put your complaints and resolution suggestions in writing to the minder (keep copies of everything) so you have evidence. Please note that Ofsted cannot and will not get involved in contractual disputes. they are only interested in the welfare of the child in relation to the practice provided.

[rickysmiths]

I couldnt believe what i was reading,,

ITS THE ONES LIKE THOSE THAT GIVE US A BAD NAME AND SCARE GENUIN PEOPLE FROM USING US.........

thank god you found someone else quick, cant imagine what would have happened if you left your precious one there, after all they are all precious and thats how i treat little ones, cant believe she didnt take all of them to the garage, they all walk, and being upstairs, must be mad, we all know things happen in seconds, how would she explain an accident if she was upstairs.


Glad your going to ring ofsted, i hope she gets struck off, she wil have to find alternative job to feed her kids, you shouldnt feel bad, as she would have been told the do's and dont's, so it was her choice to leave them unattended,and go upstairs, and other things she done... not yours, you wouldnt anyway,,,,,

pampering, i know some do,, but i wouldnt, unless they get told off they will still do it.

ould ponce you explain to ofsted they shoint you in the right way to get the rest of your money back, as someone said cm might fight it, good luck with that.

I always try to be flexible, and i wouldnt moan about being paid upfront per term, as i have experienced the late payers and the non payers, so that would be good,


please keep us updated, and lets hope she gets struck off, i hope no one goes to her and fill her space,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, there are genuin new minders out there struggling to fill spaces.

Ofsted will not do this. They will not get involved in any Contractual issues I'm afraid.

[Eva]

I understand that Ofsted do not get involved in contractual issues. My new childminder, having looked at my contract, said I should send them a copy as she said that there are blank spaces where things should have been put in, for example, the payment due for outings etc. She seems to think that I have filled in areas I shouldn't have and that Ofsted wouldn't be too impressed with the contract. I don't know about all this stuff but will definitely seek legal advice on this.

[Eva]

I am glad you have found alternative care first of all.

How do you mean - fill in the contract? You and the minder fill in the contract together and sign/date it.

A CCJ cannot and does not stop a minder from practising I am afraid. You do stand a good chance of getting your money back via the small claims court but I would highly recommend ensuring you are writing everything down, put your complaints and resolution suggestions in writing to the minder (keep copies of everything) so you have evidence. Please note that Ofsted cannot and will not get involved in contractual disputes. they are only interested in the welfare of the child in relation to the practice provided.

The issues that you have highlighted are mostly fairly insignificant things however they do add up to bad practice. Until I receive all copies of the documentation I have signed then I will not know exactly where I stand. However, I am quite sure that I did not sign anything bout trips out. I almost feel like i'm being petty about some things but i'm just trying to give Ofsted the whole picture. They can then decide what is an issue or not.

I know everyone is human and can forget things however, this is my daughter!! Imagine how I felt when I have the school on the phone saying that noone has come to collect my daughter from school. Her granddad drove the 20 mins to collect her by which time she had been collected (approx 30 mins late) and the childminder was really apologetic to granddad for having to drive there but just said "oh it's one of them things" to me. If she hadn't of been chatting to her friend this wouldn't have happened. My daughter was fine because she was in the care of her teachers but what if she had forgotten about her when they were out shopping etc. Again all these things add to the bigger picture and my main concern is the fact she has left my daughter and other mindees unsupervised on many occasions.

Good to know about the CCJ. I hope this can be settled with as little distress as possible but i've got a feeling it wont be

[Pipsqueak]

I understand that Ofsted do not get involved in contractual issues. My new childminder, having looked at my contract, said I should send them a copy as she said that there are blank spaces where things should have been put in, for example, the payment due for outings etc. She seems to think that I have filled in areas I shouldn't have and that Ofsted wouldn't be too impressed with the contract. I don't know about all this stuff but will definitely seek legal advice on this.

It will be a pointless exercise sending Ofsted the contract they will not be interested - I am sorry.

A childminder doesn't even really need to do a contract - only collect certain information. Childminders use a variety of contracts - NCMA/MM, their own - therefore there is no set or standard way to fill in a contract.

IF there are concerns about a childs safety or wellbeing then by all means report to Ofsted

[Eva]

It will be a pointless exercise sending Ofsted the contract they will not be interested - I am sorry.

A childminder doesn't even really need to do a contract - only collect certain information. Childminders use a variety of contracts - NCMA/MM, their own - therefore there is no set or standard way to fill in a contract.

IF there are concerns about a childs safety or wellbeing then by all means report to Ofsted

OK, thanks. I will let them know about the concerns I have regarding the children's safety after all that is my main concern. Just want to make sure that I am doing everything properly

[The Juggler]

I'm glad you've found somethign else hon and hope that you do not have to end up paying notice (given the reasons for ending the contract) and that you get your money back.

If Ofsted look into it the worst that will probably happen in terms of her not working anymore is that they will suspend her registration whilst she does some training, work under the local Development Officer for a while or shows how she plans to ensure these issues do not happen again. She will then probably be allowed to practice again and inspected more often. Not entirely sure but I imagine it will be something along these lines.