Ad hoc to regular hours?

[Sonia_79]

Hi everyone need a little bit of advice.I got one mindee atm only 5h a week and I have interest from another family to start end of October.
Now I have pacey contracts and my query is what hours to put in...mum is on maternity and will be taking turns with husband who works who stays home lol but basically she said there would be random days from 25/10-20/11 and then Mon,Tue and Fri ( and these will be 8am-6,7 pm so works great for me.)
I have no problem with being flexible but confused with contract should I put "hours to be advised" and then once I do 3 day a week add amendment and sign again or what do I do?
They ll be coming over again Monday to discuss dates so any suggestions by then will be appreciated x

[moggy]

You can write the fixed days in the contract and write 'plus ad-hoc day 25/10-20/11 2015'.

You might want to do a separate sheet just agreeing your ad-hoc terms for 25/10-20/11 2015, saying when you expect to be paid, what if parent says they want a day but then change their minds, etc.

[bunyip]

The contract should show the days/hours to which both parties agree to be 'tied in' long-term. Anything over and above is ad-hoc.

So, I'd put the regular hours on the contract, then do a seperate booking form (or at least a written booking) for the ad hoc work. You can write the ad hoc fees/rates on the usual pacey form: IIRC the line is shown as "fee for occasional childcare" or similar.

I use an ad hoc booking request form with additional Ts&Cs. I can send you the Ts&Cs by PM on request. The form is a set of tables, with Monday-Sunday in one column, then empty columns for mum to fill in the times requested and then she signs at the bottom. I counter-sign if I agree to accept the booking, although the booking isn't made until paid in full, in advance.

Surprising, but you do have to tell parents that a request is just that: a request, until you agree it and they pay for it. A lot of people think we're available 24/7/365 and will always agree to every demand for PAYG childcare at a moment's notice.

[Sonia_79]

Thanks guys ,I ve never seen ad hoc booking form,could you pm me bunyip,Id appreciate it. Ill put arranged dates from 23/11 in contract then and then have this form with it as well? Another thing she said she might do 5 weeks 3 full days husband stays at home,then 5 weeks she stays at home how would I go about that if they want 5 weeks on/ 5 weeks off? To be honest since Im just starting out I really dont mind awkward hours as long as I can get some work just want to make sure I do it all properly.

[Sonia_79]

Oh and they want to pay with childcare vouchers I just signed up with edenred for my first family but havent gone through payment yet ( they wer paying in cash on the day), should I ask for advance for all the ad hoc days? Sorry for all the questions

[moggy]

Oh and they want to pay with childcare vouchers I just signed up with edenred for my first family but havent gone through payment yet ( they wer paying in cash on the day), should I ask for advance for all the ad hoc days? Sorry for all the questions

Always payment in advance, especially for a new family. It also helps focus their minds for deciding on ad-hoc days rather than using you like a creche.
Once I have a reliable family who I know well I might let them pay for an extra day on the next month's invoice.

[moggy]

Thanks guys ,I ve never seen ad hoc booking form,could you pm me bunyip,Id appreciate it. Ill put arranged dates from 23/11 in contract then and then have this form with it as well? Another thing she said she might do 5 weeks 3 full days husband stays at home,then 5 weeks she stays at home how would I go about that if they want 5 weeks on/ 5 weeks off? To be honest since Im just starting out I really dont mind awkward hours as long as I can get some work just want to make sure I do it all properly.

So permanent contract might be 5 weeks on/5 weeks off??

One of the regrets I see here again and again was taking on not-ideal work just because you are new and are desperate for anything.

Do you want to only have income every other 5-weeks? If you charged a non-refundable retainer for 50% of fees for the 5 weeks off, are you happy keeping a space open and unused for just 50% income?

Some CMers do not want to work at full EYFS capacity, some are more interested in doing after-school or just want a quieter life- if that is you then this could be a good one for you.

If you want to make a good income in your CM career, maximise your EYFS income and pay your mortgage then I would not do it.

Look at your hourly rate x3 EYFS children x hours and days you open... do the maths. Is it worthwhile taking this on? You could end up regreting it as it is very very hard to end a contract because you realise you should never have taken them on.

[Sonia_79]

Thanks Moggy,really appreciate your advice.
I ll know for sure tomorrow that was mentioned when we first met. Believe me Im not looking for a quiet life. I was suppose to move to Bristol with my little girl 2 months ago with partner rent a nice house with the garden and start childminding. Instead my long term relationship ended,im in small apt without garden and completely skint and I need to provide for my little girl and myself. So I need work and would happily do evenings,wknds etc...I agree 5 week thing sounds dodgy but what do u do,cant afford to be picky and dont want to sign up to rubish agreement either..damned if i do damned if i dont lol

[moggy]

Thanks Moggy,really appreciate your advice.
I ll know for sure tomorrow that was mentioned when we first met. Believe me Im not looking for a quiet life. I was suppose to move to Bristol with my little girl 2 months ago with partner rent a nice house with the garden and start childminding. Instead my long term relationship ended,im in small apt without garden and completely skint and I need to provide for my little girl and myself. So I need work and would happily do evenings,wknds etc...I agree 5 week thing sounds dodgy but what do u do,cant afford to be picky and dont want to sign up to rubish agreement either..damned if i do damned if i dont lol

It may look bleak at the moment but the right family will come along. If you take this one on on a 50% retainer for every other 5-weeks, you are basically cutting your income by a quarter and will have no way to increase it for that EYFS place.

Every EYFS place is precious- I work at full capacity except for 1 day a week and I choose to have a quieter day then with just 2 EYFS that day. Once you have taken on a family you get so attached the the child and build a reationship... then let's say a full-time family come along and you have to trun them away because you have this shift worker? It is not good for your reputation to be giving notice for that kind of reason either.

Another way to look it is that you offer the place on a month-by-month basis and if a better client turns up you give notice. But you are up front about your intentions from the beginning, explain your concerns and that you are still going to be advertising the place. In time, they may even decide to pay your for the 5-weeks-off just to keep you on if they are happy with you (it does happen!). Or just go for 100% fees for all week whether they use them or not- again, it is no unheard of and if they can afford it they might go for it to secure a good childminder.

Or put all your efforts into marketing and hold out for the right one- a part-time but every-week family is better than shift work as you can jigsaw familoies around each other (2 days, 3 days , 4 days all can fit together)

[bunyip]

Hi Sonia.

I've sent the PM with the Ts&Cs. As for the rest, Moggy's excellent posts just about have it all covered.

When I started out, I found I was taking on lots of part-timers and it's stayed that way. I've been able to fill spaces across the week where other CMs thought it impossible, but that's odd days or mornings/afternoons. I can't say that I'd expect to fill alternate 5-week blocks. I've always felt I had room to accommodate one slightly 'off the wall' arrangement, but never on a permanent basis (and at the moment, my daughter needs that flexibility for her shifts.)

There are limits to how flexible we can be. By all means, offer evenings/weekends/early starts, but review what you offer each time you take someone on: otherwise you'll soon be burning the candle at both ends, 7 days a week.

Consider your options in the light of Moggy's advice. The family may or may not be happy to pay the retainer: always a bit of an uncertain compromise, as the CM can resent the lost earnings potential whilst mum resents paying a CM to, in all honesty, "do nothing". You need to be absolutely 100% clear if you take this on pending a better offer.

The twin dangers are: getting locked in to an agreement that stops you taking on something better; or OTOH a bad reaction from the parent if you give notice which can damage your reputation.

Mum needs to realise she'll probably only get this sort of arrangement with someone who, like you, is just starting out; or as Moggy described, a CM who doesn't need to maximise their earning potential - which is a bit of a rare breed. The other danger a lot of Forum members will vouch for is the Doormat Syndrome. That is, with some families, the more you do for them, the more they take for granted, and the more they demand.

The other thing to be aware of is how the child will take to an arrangement which is made for mum and dad's convenience. Will s/he be OK with this sort of stop-start care package? Again, discuss with the parents, stress that you'll do your best to settle them, but it's far from ideal.

IIWY I'd call your legal team (pacey or your insurer) for advice on the contract. It needs to be clear whether it will be a strict rolling 5 weeks on, 5 off, or whether the pattern gets dispaced by your/their holidays, Christmas, etc. There's also some contractual stuff about whether notice can be given "during holidays", which regularly pops up on the Forum. If the non-attending weeks count as "holidays" (as suggested by some of the relatd threads) then it could take you up to 9 weeks to make notice take effect. So get it looked into by the legal people.

[Sonia_79]

Thanks guys things turned better then expected Ad hoc turned out to be every Friday from 25/9 till end of November and they dropped the whole "5 week on/ off" madness and want Mon,Tue,Fri every week 8-6 pm and possibly another day from January. We signed contract today ,Im very happy

[moggy]

Thanks guys things turned better then expected Ad hoc turned out to be every Friday from 25/9 till end of November and they dropped the whole "5 week on/ off" madness and want Mon,Tue,Fri every week 8-6 pm and possibly another day from January. We signed contract today ,Im very happy

Great result!

[Sonia_79]

Im so happy Taken all of your advice on board if I get any awkward requests again.