Pacey Members - please read

[rickysmiths]

I am moving to Morton Michel for my PLI and not renewing my PACEY membership. Have filled out questionnaire, I think their ****** stuff is rubbish, we shouldn't have to pay for full member benefits, their facebook page stuff is poor, their online presence is poor, paperwork is expensive.....and after telling me when I called to renew that all contracts should be renewed yearly in case the small print has changed and they do not stand up in court, I have abandoned them, their magazine of often just promoting PACEY, I prefer others......need I go on!!!

MM paperwork is more expensive.

Contracts do NOT have to be renewed annually to stand up in court just because some small print may have been changed, any current NCMA or Pacey Contracts are perfectly good and would stand up in Court if they are filled in correctly. It is and always has been considered good practice to review Contracts every year anyway and this would go for any Contracts produced by MM or anyone else. Pacey Contracts cost £1.67 so they are very cheap compared to the annual income even for a child who only may attend one day a week. If you consider £1.67 a year to potentially protect yourself and your business if you had to go to court then of course that is your choice but to me it is actually a very small price to pay. This has been the subject of another thread.

I really don't know what the fuss is about. Pacey Contracts are not expensive,

[Simona]

MM paperwork is more expensive.

Contracts do NOT have to be renewed annually to stand up in court just because some small print may have been changed, any current NCMA or Pacey Contracts are perfectly good and would stand up in Court if they are filled in correctly. It is and always has been considered good practice to review Contracts every year anyway and this would go for any Contracts produced by MM or anyone else. Pacey Contracts cost £1.67 so they are very cheap compared to the annual income even for a child who only may attend one day a week. If you consider £1.67 a year to potentially protect yourself and your business if you had to go to court then of course that is your choice but to me it is actually a very small price to pay. This has been the subject of another thread.

I really don't know what the fuss is about. Pacey Contracts are not expensive,

Rickysmiths...once again you state 'I don't know what the fuss is about'
The fuss, as you wrongly term it, is about discussing pacey and they way cms feel represented
Once again you raise the contracts...are they really perfectly good as you say? if so why are cms constantly discussing them and feeling far from sure about what they cover?

I told you last week that the small print between the 03/04 and 06/11 contracts is 'exactly' the same...so why should pacey recommend they be renewed if no small print has changed?
and before you tell me they are out of date where is the newest version since the rebranding... as we were told we could put pacey stickers on them to cover the ncma logo...No No thank you!

Pacey contracts are not expensive...at £1.67 in fact for me they are too cheap...I also said I would bet contracts would come up again as a discussion...sad to see I was right.

unfortunately it has been impossible for years to engage positively with ncma/pacey ...cms are either ignored, or jumped upon, or called a nuisance or left thinking 'why do I bother'?

This thread is about the new 'survey' which I could not find anywhere and unless Chatterbox had not posted it here we would have missed the opportunity to input ...

Again the survey is causing problems and cms are unhappy about its format but it gives plenty of space for comments..so what are my worries or at least which topics I would have liked a response to.... or would have liked to engage in further discussion

Widening of the membership
rebranding
agencies
childcare hubs
More Affordable Childcare...what is pacey response to the threat cms will lose wrap around care to schools?
Present Ofsted Registration fee and what is in store in future

Contracts
pacey paperwork

lack of grants awarded to pacey for 2013-2015
Ofsted inspections
#OfstedBigConversation...is pacey including itself in the group and attending the meetings??
Networks which ncma endorsed for years
accreditation which has no weight any more and left 90% of cms out of the funding since the EYFS 2008 included cms in the education delivery but still excluded them in funding
The reason LAs moved from the pacey network model (CCF) to their own
Statutory Guidance for LAs...how is pacey helping cms to access it if the LAs are not complying?
sporadic pacey representation at LA level

Lack of knowledge of pacey management structure
the departure of too many directors and recently CEO Farrell in the last year
pacey local...who does it benefit?
NPF structure and representation of concerns
Professional Occupational Standards, levels of m'ship and CPD requirements
too much online training

the loss of a wonderful chair in Susanna Dawson
the loss of the annual conference
lack of response when a cm writes in
helpline

Last is the fact I would have liked Pacey to be part of the Task and Finish group as 'observers' not involved in developing agenmcies but listening and being a lot more informed by their presence at the meetings...NDNA, PLA and ******* are there...why not pacey?

On all these topics I have engaged positively but not always received a plausible answer.....has anyone else?

[sarah707]

MM paperwork is more expensive.

Just to clarify for forum members who are concerned - childminders who are insured by Morton Michel do NOT have to use their paperwork.

Thank you

[rickysmiths]

Rickysmiths...once again you state 'I don't know what the fuss is about'
The fuss, as you wrongly term it, is about discussing pacey and they way cms feel represented
Once again you raise the contracts...are they really perfectly good as you say? if so why are cms constantly discussing them and feeling far from sure about what they cover?

I told you last week that the small print between the 03/04 and 06/11 contracts is 'exactly' the same...so why should pacey recommend they be renewed if no small print has changed?
and before you tell me they are out of date where is the newest version since the rebranding... as we were told we could put pacey stickers on them to cover the ncma logo...No No thank you!

Pacey contracts are not expensive...at £1.67 in fact for me they are too cheap...I also said I would bet contracts would come up again as a discussion...sad to see I was right.

unfortunately it has been impossible for years to engage positively with ncma/pacey ...cms are either ignored, or jumped upon, or called a nuisance or left thinking 'why do I bother'?

This thread is about the new 'survey' which I could not find anywhere and unless Chatterbox had not posted it here we would have missed the opportunity to input ...

Again the survey is causing problems and cms are unhappy about its format but it gives plenty of space for comments..so what are my worries or at least which topics I would have liked a response to.... or would have liked to engage in further discussion

Widening of the membership
rebranding
agencies
childcare hubs
More Affordable Childcare...what is pacey response to the threat cms will lose wrap around care to schools?
Present Ofsted Registration fee and what is in store in future

Contracts
pacey paperwork

lack of grants awarded to pacey for 2013-2015
Ofsted inspections
#OfstedBigConversation...is pacey including itself in the group and attending the meetings??
Networks which ncma endorsed for years
accreditation which has no weight any more and left 90% of cms out of the funding since the EYFS 2008 included cms in the education delivery but still excluded them in funding
The reason LAs moved from the pacey network model (CCF) to their own
Statutory Guidance for LAs...how is pacey helping cms to access it if the LAs are not complying?
sporadic pacey representation at LA level

Lack of knowledge of pacey management structure
the departure of too many directors and recently CEO Farrell in the last year
pacey local...who does it benefit?
NPF structure and representation of concerns
Professional Occupational Standards, levels of m'ship and CPD requirements
too much online training

the loss of a wonderful chair in Susanna Dawson
the loss of the annual conference
lack of response when a cm writes in
helpline

Last is the fact I would have liked Pacey to be part of the Task and Finish group as 'observers' not involved in developing agenmcies but listening and being a lot more informed by their presence at the meetings...NDNA, PLA and ******* are there...why not pacey?

On all these topics I have engaged positively but not always received a plausible answer.....has anyone else?

I was only addressing a comment about the cost of Pacey Contracts and nothing else.

Just for the record though. When I have had any issues with Pacey i have emailed or phoned them and I must say they have mostly been resolved quickly and within the bounds of a big organisation. A sensible conversation with some solid constructive discussion I find goes a long way and it has worked for me. I find getting emotional does not work as well. Compromise is also good because no organisation is every going to be right in every single way for every single one of their members life just isn't like that.

To be honest you seem to have so many issues with pacey why don't you just leave them and go to one of the other organisations that you keep saying are so much better at being there for childminders?

You keep pulling pacey apart in thread after thread. You are not doing this with any of the other oragnisations and I think it is wrong that you keep doing this on a public forum. I think it is producing a very bias un balanced view of the organisation and I think it boarders on being a very unprofessional thing to do. Fine if you finely pick apart all the other membership organisations in exactly the same way but you don't and from my personal view some of them have some very dubious set ups but that is my personal view and I would never dream to talk about them in the way you do about Pacey. It frankly is bordering on the obsessive and I find it unpleasant and I wish you would please stop having a go at every opportunity on here.

If you are so personally un happy then just leave them or take up your personal concerns with Pacey directly.

[Simona]

I was only addressing a comment about the cost of Pacey Contracts and nothing else.

Just for the record though. When I have had any issues with Pacey i have emailed or phoned them and I must say they have mostly been resolved quickly and within the bounds of a big organisation. A sensible conversation with some solid constructive discussion I find goes a long way and it has worked for me. I find getting emotional does not work as well. Compromise is also good because no organisation is every going to be right in every single way for every single one of their members life just isn't like that.

To be honest you seem to have so many issues with pacey why don't you just leave them and go to one of the other organisations that you keep saying are so much better at being there for childminders?

You keep pulling pacey apart in thread after thread. You are not doing this with any of the other oragnisations and I think it is wrong that you keep doing this on a public forum. I think it is producing a very bias un balanced view of the organisation and I think it boarders on being a very unprofessional thing to do. Fine if you finely pick apart all the other membership organisations in exactly the same way but you don't and from my personal view some of them have some very dubious set ups but that is my personal view and I would never dream to talk about them in the way you do about Pacey. It frankly is bordering on the obsessive and I find it unpleasant and I wish you would please stop having a go at every opportunity on here.

If you are so personally un happy then just leave them or take up your personal concerns with Pacey directly.

I have contributed to the discussions like everybody else in this forum, especially about contracts, and have also taken some points to pacey itself and, as said, some have been listened to...that is not pulling apart but voicing my opinion which you dislike but do not seem to pick on any other unhappy cm.
For the record I have not spoken about any other association as I am not their member I do not know how they represent cms or what services they offer but have mentioned PLA a few times....yes they appear to be listening and I like that at this particular time


maybe you should take a look at pacey local and the many posts there that still await an answer from pacey
You are also not aware of the emails I exchanged with pacey...so like you I use the same positive engagement strategy...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't
I have given pacey 12 years of membership and loyalty and they should listen to positive/constructive criticism...I think they do, not sure about you.

I totally respect your view but you must also respect mine...I am honest about what worries me and I would have liked to discuss in pacey local but it s not possible...we need to agree to disagree

[FloraDora]

As a new member, still in the pre registration stage I have welcomed the open discussions around PACEY ,PLA and MM
I was not under the impression that it was constantly negative, but honest and open and a little concerned around some areas. So 'equal' have the posts been that I have still not yet made a decision as to who to join.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I think that Pacey get confused and there is an undertone going on here.

let's clarify AGAIN

1. Pacey offer Membership - lots of negativity about this and I think this is mostly what Simona is getting at (not blaming you Simona but your threads are mostly about this and I am using them as an example)

2. Pacey offer PLi - lots of complaints about this all over the place but clarification has been given in another thread so if you want to know about contracts please go there as I feel most people count this insurance as "get my money back when a parent doesn't pay insurance" (my opinion). The insurance also covers you (and in my opinion is more important than any other cover of this policy) for Liability so you have someone to back you if a claim is made against you for whatever reason. I again state the policy that Pacey offers is different to MM and I expect other insurance companies - I expect that they will all be different so please read and see what you are getting for your money, as you would a travel insurance.

I posted this thread so that members of Pacey could be involved in the potential introduction of new lines. If you don't like them then say no but can this thread please stay on target of the subject that it was intended and not turn into another "Pacey didn't do this thread".

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I am not belittling them but there are loads of other threads under the Pacey heading doing exactly that.

[Simona]

I think that Pacey get confused and there is an undertone going on here.

let's clarify AGAIN

1. Pacey offer Membership - lots of negativity about this and I think this is mostly what Simona is getting at (not blaming you Simona but your threads are mostly about this and I am using them as an example)

2. Pacey offer PLi - lots of complaints about this all over the place but clarification has been given in another thread so if you want to know about contracts please go there as I feel most people count this insurance as "get my money back when a parent doesn't pay insurance" (my opinion). The insurance also covers you (and in my opinion is more important than any other cover of this policy) for Liability so you have someone to back you if a claim is made against you for whatever reason. I again state the policy that Pacey offers is different to MM and I expect other insurance companies - I expect that they will all be different so please read and see what you are getting for your money, as you would a travel insurance.

I posted this thread so that members of Pacey could be involved in the potential introduction of new lines. If you don't like them then say no but can this thread please stay on target of the subject that it was intended and not turn into another "Pacey didn't do this thread".

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I am not belittling them but there are loads of other threads under the Pacey heading doing exactly that.

No Chatterbox it is not 'negativity'...it is called 'constructive criticism'...
it is part of the reflection process that makes anyone offer a better service.
it is what parents do to cms when they make a suggestion to improve practice and what we do the SEF in order to improve our service...
do we tell those parents to go somewhere else or do we discuss and adapt practice in order to improve as service providers?

What I and many other cms on this forum have done is raise our worries and confusion over contracts, PLI and much more.... that is not negativity
it is being honest and proactive when one is confused and getting clarification...
it is receiving a satisfactory answer when one rings the helpline
it is being treated with respect when exchanging information on a forum

it is also a lot more and without evidence of what I have done or how I have engaged with pacey or, indeed how pacey have engaged with me, neither you nor Rickysmiths can accuse me of anything or trying to bully me...

It is sad that once again you have to 'clarify' what pacey is, about their contracts or PLI...I have no problems with either

Yes I have listed a lot of things that I am confused about and, honestly, after 12 years of membership I should not be
I also know that as a cm and alongside thousands of cms we face the most difficult of times ...I don't think it is inappropriate to question those who represent me and get paid to do so?

[hectors house]

I am no longer a member of NCMA (PACEY) but I still completed the survey - I agree the tick boxes weren't always very helpful but I made sure I told them of why I am no longer a member in the comments box.

Simona and Rickysmith please just agree to disagree or PM each other as Chatterbox says when you two answer a post it seems to get quite heated!

[Simona]

I am no longer a member of NCMA (PACEY) but I still completed the survey - I agree the tick boxes weren't always very helpful but I made sure I told them of why I am no longer a member in the comments box.

Simona and Rickysmith please just agree to disagree or PM each other as Chatterbox says when you two answer a post it seems to get quite heated!

Thank you Hector House...I have clearly asked to agree to disagree in one of the posts below
Hopefully this will be the last we hear on this
I have no more interest in discussing pacey contracts or their PLI

Sorry for the prolonged discussions...they were meant to clarify questions

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Anyone else doing the survey? Anyone had anything positive to say about the new ideas?