Childminder: should our title stay or go?

Simona · 21-04-2013, 06:37 AM

It looks like ncma is thinking of changing our name....or at least we were consulted on the idea
Yesterday at the London ncma Local event we were presented with the opportunity to discuss this...should cm stay and why or should it go and why??

I wonder what you think...somehow I don't want this to be another 'done deal'???...or maybe it is?
apparently this name change was suggested at the ncma conference in 2011...why bring it up now when we have so much on our plate??
out of the 120 attendees yesterday there was 1 nanny in the room but I don't think any nursery worker was in attendance...will their name change too?

hearing those who were saying that as ncma has rebranded to pacey maybe it was time for our name to change too was rather unsettling....

The event was very informative for those who had not heard of agencies (yes they were there) and those not up to speed on consultations...but I heard not a lot that reassures me about how, what, where, who 'indepedent' cms will have to deal with in September as the 'agency models' hit the pilots and clarity on the 2 year old funding or even the 3/4...no hint the funding will reflect our costs???

One cm rightly brought up the subject that when a child becomes 3 her funding drops to a low £4.20...in my area it drops from £6.10 to £3.50!!!...that is what ncma should worry about

ncma have stressed again they will not take part in developing the agency models because they do not want to help the DfE in the matter..they have stressed their supportfor the IIM campaign but have not mentioned what they think the cost will be to independent cms...they have said there will be amendements proposed in the C&F Bill to the agency models but not stated what they are....
but they are happy to take on a scheme that has made many cms worry about their sustainability....we eagerly await clarification

**blue bear** · 21-04-2013, 11:35 AM

We appear to be very little fish in a very big pond at the moment with sharks circling. Unfortunetly because we are all independent they use that fact to divide us, no way will all the childminders get together and fight, lots still haven't even heard about the proposed changes. Our lea is keepingt very quiet and denying any knowledge of MGC

We have fought very hard in recent years to get the brand childminder out there and it's working, why change the name now? We have enough on without confusing parents further with a name change, we get called home childcarers or whatever, up pops childminder agencies and guess who gets no work because no one knows what a home childcarers is?

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 21-04-2013, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

It looks like ncma is thinking of changing our name....or at least we were consulted on the idea
Yesterday at the London ncma Local event we were presented with the opportunity to discuss this...should cm stay and why or should it go and why??

In the past PACEY have asked its members for any proposals to be put to the membership. Time and time again the question of "is Childminder representative of us?" is asked and in 2011 this proposal went through by a large majority, mainly postal votes. It is not PACEY asking the question because it thinks that a name change is in order but the members. I don't think that there is anything else suitable but as the members asked, a consultation process has to be done. Definately not a done deal as no one I have spoken to even agrees with this, so I think it will just be process and then finished with.

All other proposals can be found in issues of Who Minds if you still have them and there are a lot still being discussed on our behalf even though it was a couple of years ago. for example - discussions with Ofsted about inspect Outstanding and Good childminders every 4/5 years instead of every 3/4 and help others with satisfactory gain a better grade quicker.

I wonder what you think...somehow I don't want this to be another 'done deal'???...or maybe it is?
apparently this name change was suggested at the ncma conference in 2011...why bring it up now when we have so much on our plate??
out of the 120 attendees yesterday there was 1 nanny in the room but I don't think any nursery worker was in attendance...will their name change too?

hearing those who were saying that as ncma has rebranded to pacey maybe it was time for our name to change too was rather unsettling....

The event was very informative for those who had not heard of agencies (yes they were there) and those not up to speed on consultations...but I heard not a lot that reassures me about how, what, where, who 'indepedent' cms will have to deal with in September as the 'agency models' hit the pilots and clarity on the 2 year old funding or even the 3/4...no hint the funding will reflect our costs???

One cm rightly brought up the subject that when a child becomes 3 her funding drops to a low £4.20...in my area it drops from £6.10 to £3.50!!!...that is what ncma should worry about

did no one ask PACEY or the NPF'S this as we constantly bring it up at our meetings and I know that PACEY are discussing this at Government level?

ncma have stressed again they will not take part in developing the agency models because they do not want to help the DfE in the matter..they have stressed their supportfor the IIM campaign but have not mentioned what they think the cost will be to independent cms...they have said there will be amendements proposed in the C&F Bill to the agency models but not stated what they are....
but they are happy to take on a scheme that has made many cms worry about their sustainability....we eagerly await clarification

There are a lot of regional meetings happening and my area isn't until 11th May so this will be discussed at length I think for the next 6 months at least. Dialogue is good

Simona · 21-04-2013, 01:02 PM

Thank you Chatterbox...two things
1. name change is something that we were presented with at the event yesterday, I was not aware of it until I got the agenda at 10am and also saw the 2 presentations by DfE and the man from Open University

2. the drop in rate when a child reaches age 3 is not something we need to raise to ncma...it has been a problem for a long time...not just that but the fact rates have remained stagnant for many years and do not reflect the cost of high quality which causes an issue of sustainability and has prevented many cms from wanting to get the funding

In fact cms discussed this with Sharon Hodgson, shadow minister for children, at the childcare consultation I organized in my area last January (something she mentions in her C&F Bill debate last week)
I also believe from what I read that the level of funding is the 'main' cause of worry for all providers so I am sure ncma would have picked this up

as the name change has just surfaced it is good for cms to have the opportunity to discuss in an open forum and either take it directly to the meetings or approach their NPF as an issue for discussion

**sarah707** · 21-04-2013, 02:01 PM

Thank you for your feedback!

There are some interesting points raised - the 2 year entitlement is going to be huge and could present some very worrying and potentially challenging elements that I don't think we have fully embraced yet... including the financial aspects of the free sessions.

I don't think people will call us anything other than childminders will they? I still get called a baby minder by a certain generation who used to look after babies for neighbours who went out to work...... hmmmm... it's a bit different nowadays

Having said that I suppose if ncma have removed childminder from their own name then their members might be feeling that their business names need to better reflect their professional association name - or maybe pacey are thinking that - I don't know their inner workings!?!

It worries me that so many people don't know about the issues yet - and that LAs are not spreading the word and making people aware of what is happening. I hate that it might become a fait accompli and people think they have to join an agency because they don't know what else to do

I think we need to spread the word to all childminders - agencies are an option - but so is independence and we can support you if you want to stay independent!

**rickysmiths** · 21-04-2013, 02:11 PM

Did they suggest any alternative names? I actually feel that we may have outgrown our Childminder title.

I am going to the pacey meeting in Marlow next Saturday. Any one else going to that one. It is not a Regional Forum meeting by the way they are different. The meetings yesterday and the ones next weekend are information days held by pacey.

**Pixie dust** · 21-04-2013, 02:15 PM

One cm rightly brought up the subject that when a child becomes 3 her funding drops to a low £4.20...in my area it drops from £6.10 to £3.50!!!...that is what ncma should worry about

In my area we are lucky as the average childminder charges around £3.50 an hour but for funded children we get £5.05 so we get more than the going rate but I am well aware rates are different all over the country.

**loocyloo** · 21-04-2013, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

Did they suggest any alternative names? I actually feel that we may have outgrown our Childminder title.

I am going to the pacey meeting in Marlow next Saturday. Any one else going to that one. It is not a Regional Forum meeting by the way they are different. The meetings yesterday and the ones next weekend are information days held by pacey.

i agree we have 'outgrown' our name ... but can't think what else we should be called!

**Mouse** · 21-04-2013, 02:37 PM

With regard to the name "childminder", I do think it is starting to take the place of "babysitter". It's becoming a general term used to describe anyone who looks after children.

How many newspaper reports have we read about 'childminders' injuring, or killing children in their care? Of course, these reports are rarely about an Ofsted Registered Childminder, they refer to a neighbour, partner, friend, relative, just someone who is looking after the child. Childminder is starting to mean the 'person who minds a child'. At the moment the only way we can distinguish ourselves is to call ourselves Registered Childminders. Maybe it's now time to call ourselves something different? Something that makes us stand out as being different to a baby sitter or unregistered person looking after a child? Maybe we need a new name that specifically means 'Ofsted Registered Childminder'.

**loocyloo** · 21-04-2013, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

With regard to the name "childminder", I do think it is starting to take the place of "babysitter". It's becoming a general term used to describe anyone who looks after children.

How many newspaper reports have we read about 'childminders' injuring, or killing children in their care? Of course, these reports are rarely about an Ofsted Registered Childminder, they refer to a neighbour, partner, friend, relative, just someone who is looking after the child. Childminder is starting to mean the 'person who minds a child'. At the moment the only way we can distinguish ourselves is to call ourselves Registered Childminders. Maybe it's now time to call ourselves something different? Something that makes us stand out as being different to a baby sitter or unregistered person looking after a child? Maybe we need a new name that specifically means 'Ofsted Registered Childminder'.

i agree .... i complained to the press complaints about that article in a magazine that called a babysitter a childminder ( a letter from 'me' but written by press complaints chap SHOULD be being printed stating my ( our ) concerns and issues/difference between a babysitter and a childminder. no one would call a teacher anything other than a teacher, and wouldn't call anyone else a teacher.

'ORIC' - Ofsted Registered Independent Childminder

but, parents wouldn't know that is what they needed to look for when they were looking for childcare!

Simona · 21-04-2013, 03:12 PM

The discussions were based on two questions:

1. should childminder stay? if so why?
(those I discussed this with and said yes also stressed it had to have 'registered' in front)

2. should we have a different name? if so why?

There was the opportunity to come up with suggestions and some were mentioned to reflect the rebranding...I think one suggestion was 'professional early years educator'...in this case I agree with Sarah no one will call us that and we will remain cms?

The question of being a 'babysitter' came up and this is seen as a perception...up to us to dispel that myth??
I agree with Mouse that we need to be 'Ofsted Registered cms' to distinguish us from the agency ones

The notes we made were left behind for ncma to look at.
The London event was a PACEY Local event and the Greater London forum amalgamated into one, there are 4 of those

My view, and it is my view, is that I am happy with 'registered cm' because it means I am home based but part of the EY workforce that includes nannies, nursery practitioners, CCentre workers etc etc

The main reason for me is that as cms we are practitioners and also 'providers' of services and self employed, therefore run our business while nursery workers are practitioners who are employed by a provider...their nursery!
Totally my interpretation but works for me and reflected in my 'copyright' paperwork, documentation and accounts.

David Fitzgerald (DfE) reinforced that agencies are not compulsory...so totally agree with Sarah again we need to reassure cms they do not have to join an agency
It remains unclear whether new cms will have to go via an agency to register which triggers the 2nd question: who registers the new cms that Barnardo's and ncma are recruiting??

Do LAs know what is happening? yes they do...they may not be very engaging but I feel it is time for them to accept that one of their legal duties, which could be removed soon, is that of info sharing
I have approached my LA on several occasions and can now see some sort of engagement...we have a meeting soon where cms will be able to raise all the issues they want...many will fall from the clouds while others will be well informed

I urge you all not to give up and if you have a network but you are not in it please make sure there are no plans being made around those cms and non network cms left behind

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 21-04-2013, 03:12 PM

As much as I think Childminder is dated, it does what it says on the tin. the words are debated everywhere I go and even those who want it changed cannot come up with anything new to replace it.

I think PACEY are just canvassing to get out views because the majority vote of members asked for it.

Simona · 21-04-2013, 03:24 PM

I am sitting here watching/listening to the C&F Bill debate of 18 April while I multitask....I think that after this debate and all the rest of the MGC saga 'childminders' will be recognised for what we are and 'babysitter' may be dropped

If I had a £ for everytime it was mentioned I would have thousands by now!

Could Truss have done us a favour?
Sharon Hodgson and Lucy Powell MP are just brilliant as is the MP ..but don't know where he is from Northamptonshire??

**bunyip** · 21-04-2013, 04:19 PM

I look forward to pacey's next line of discussion: how many childminders can dance on the head of a pin?

The whole navel-gazing exercise of "babysitter" / "childminder" / "professional childcarer" / "child-catcher" only serves to demonstrate the utter failure of CMs to see ourselves as others do.

Boring..........

Simona · 21-04-2013, 04:34 PM

Bunyip...you made me laugh!!! after watching the debate I needed it!!!
At this moment in time I have to agree my name is the last thing on my list of priorities, in fact it is not important at all... but we must understand it may be an issue of 'urgent priority' for others??

I have to admit I was taken aback when I saw it on the agenda...
They can call me what they like as long as it brings children in my care !

**FussyElmo** · 21-04-2013, 05:10 PM

I suppose we could be PACERS

Simona · 21-04-2013, 05:38 PM

Another welcome giggle!!! are we descending into a state of apathy that may cause irrational thinking??

**Katie1980** · 21-04-2013, 08:32 PM

I like ORICS and agree when agencies come in it will make it harder for people to distinguish as to what they have. But I know as a newbie CM I WILL NOT be going to an agency as I think it detracts from the principles of ECM

**bunyip** · 22-04-2013, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Katie1980

I like ORICS and agree when agencies come in it will make it harder for people to distinguish as to what they have. But I know as a newbie CM I WILL NOT be going to an agency as I think it detracts from the principles of ECM

I had a momentary flashback to Blake's 7 there, thinking that we were about to be named after the Liberator's computer. After in-depth research (I Googled it) I found that was it actually called ORAC. Shame, I'd like to have been named after a computer that foresaw the end of our existence.

........in which case, ECM would have to translate as Electronic Counter-Measures.

**Mouse** · 22-04-2013, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by bunyip

I had a momentary flashback to Blake's 7 there, thinking that we were about to be named after the Liberator's computer. After in-depth research (I Googled it) I found that was it actually called ORAC. Shame, I'd like to have been named after a computer that foresaw the end of our existence.

........in which case, ECM would have to translate as Electronic Counter-Measures.

I could quite see myself as Servalan